Brassmasters

[Fair Oak Junction]

Not a great announcement, but the website does at least mention they have kit re-release plans for 2024 so hopefully they aren't going away fully any time soon? Fingers crossed 🤞

[rope runner]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Oh dear - that would seem to be indicative of another valued supplier in the process of withdrawing from the market.

 

CJI.

For detailing parts and accessories, yes. 

 

To suggest it's indicative of them shutting up shop completely is speculation and potentially harmful to their business.

 

Paul A. 

[Mike Bellamy]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Oh dear - that would seem to be indicative of another valued supplier in the process of withdrawing from the market.

 

 

I disagree - that isn't what they say on the front page of their website copied below. It's a bit like Tesco saying they are going to stop selling baked beans (or anything else) - it doesn't automatically mean they are closing the business.

 

 

Quote

We are concentrating our range on locomotive/tender kits (the original LMS kits and the ex-Martin Finney kits), EasiChas and finescale wagon and coach underframes, wagon bodies and couplings. We are no longer selling etched windows, track details, coupling/connecting rods and axle/buffer gauges.

 

Stocks of accessories will not be replaced once they have been exhausted and these will now only be available at shows and not via mail order. Also, we are closing our PO Box with immediate effect and will therefore only be able to accept orders via email.

 

Our plans for 2024 include the re-launch of the Austerity/J94 0-6-0ST kit which has been unavailable for many years. It will produce all of the main variants including the 50550, Lambton colliery, Giesl ejector and the early and later LNER J94s.

 

Following on will be the EasiChas for the Bachmann LMS Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0, a full kit for the Great Eastern J17 0-6-0, a finescale chassis for the Bachmann GCR O4 ROD 2-8-0 and last, but not least, the LMS Coronation Pacific.

 

 

 

Why not be more positive and suggest some answers to James, who asked who would be an alternative supplier for the accessories previously available from Brassmasters.

.

[Jol Wilkinson]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Oh dear - that would seem to be indicative of another valued supplier in the process of withdrawing from the market.

 

CJI.

 

Their new loco and chassis kit announcements would indicate otherwise.

 

This is probably BM simply  streamlining their business and discontinuing the low volume. low value sales items. Their statement that they are discontinuing sales of etched windows appears to have gone unnoticed but I understand that these will still be available through another supplier.

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, rope runner said:

For detailing parts and accessories, yes. 

 

To suggest it's indicative of them shutting up shop completely is speculation and potentially harmful to their business.

 

Paul A. 

 

It is not an unreasonable conclusion.

 

Why would one clear one's stock of components, and give a clear indication that no more will be forthcoming, if one had not packed all of the kits that one intended to produce.

 

They must have realised that such an announcement could only be taken one way.

 

I hope to be proved wrong - but I'll not hold my breath.

 

CJI.

[Fair Oak Junction]

There are a couple of loco kits of theirs I need to get at some point, but the price adds up fast so I certainly hope they aren't going anywhere any time soon 😄

[rope runner]

26 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

It is not an unreasonable conclusion.

 

They must have realised that such an announcement could only be taken one way.

Well, it has been taken 2 ways here. One by you and another by the majority, I suspect. 

 

Paul A. 

[Steamport Southport]

The offering of parts as separates was only temporary and dependant on stock anyway. Always said so on the website. This is from the GWR page.

 

Maybe they are just coming to the end of the spare stock?

 

 

Quote

We are making available most of the castings used in the Martin Finney GWR kits. This will not be the entire range as some stocks are very low and therefore will be retained for full kit packing, and some of the parts are in short supply, so it will be a case of when ‘out of stock’ that they may remain so for some time. We are afraid we will not be able to enter into correspondence over these items (so no “can I have the fittings for a River class cab details as running in 1903” type questions please!).

 

 

 

Alternatives? Depends on what you are looking for.

 

Try Alan Gibson, 247 Developments, Markits, PDK, Comet/Wizard, SE Finecast, Nucast Partners, etc. for starters.

 

 

 

Jason

 

[PJT]

30 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Try Alan Gibson, 247 Developments, Markits, PDK, Comet/Wizard, SE Finecast, Nucast Partners, etc. for starters.

 

Exactly, plus all the ranges available through Phoenix Precision's website, too.

 

Pete T.

 

[Asterix2012]

I doubt very much you would reintroduce a kit like the J94 that has not been available for years if you were shutting up shop.

 

[Stanley Melrose]

At least one of the Brassmasters team is an accountant - I suspect he knows how to ensure that stocking unprofitable and/or slow-moving items do NOT damage the business so that it remains in good financial health.

[Fen End Pit]

Given I am in the process of finishing the design of an EasiChas for an Ivatt class 2, a complete kit for an ex-GER J17, producing boilers for the reintroduced J94 and detail parts for a Coronation all for Brassmasters I can say I am not expecting them to go away anytime soon.

 

Always amazes me the speculative dross the internet kicks out.

 

David

[Down_Under]

5 hours ago, Fen End Pit said:

Given I am in the process of finishing the design of an EasiChas for an Ivatt class 2, a complete kit for an ex-GER J17, producing boilers for the reintroduced J94 and detail parts for a Coronation all for Brassmasters I can say I am not expecting them to go away anytime soon.

 

Always amazes me the speculative dross the internet kicks out.

 

David

Sounds good David - looking forward to what you turn out for the J94 and some of the eastern stuff you are working on. 

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

11 hours ago, Fen End Pit said:

Given I am in the process of finishing the design of an EasiChas for an Ivatt class 2, a complete kit for an ex-GER J17, producing boilers for the reintroduced J94 and detail parts for a Coronation all for Brassmasters I can say I am not expecting them to go away anytime soon.

 

Always amazes me the speculative dross the internet kicks out.

 

David

 

David,

 

it isn't the internet. its some of the people that use it.

 

Jol

[Crosland]

Also, we are closing our PO Box with immediate effect and will therefore only be able to accept orders via email.

 

The law requires that any business selling on line provides a full geographic contact address. Their contact page now has nothing, not even a 'phone number.

 

A PO Box address was also in breach of the law.

[Down_Under]

19 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The offering of parts as separates was only temporary and dependant on stock anyway. Always said so on the website. This is from the GWR page.

 

Maybe they are just coming to the end of the spare stock?

 

 

 

 

 

Alternatives? Depends on what you are looking for.

 

Try Alan Gibson, 247 Developments, Markits, PDK, Comet/Wizard, SE Finecast, Nucast Partners, etc. for starters.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Thanks Jason, 

 

For the LNER castings - PDK would be a good start. 247 and Phoenix are not great fans of overseas orders from my experience. The etched wheels and other bits I found useful to upgrade kits and scratch aids. Am hopeful that it will reappear in the future.  

 

James 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, Crosland said:

 

 

 

The law requires that any business selling on line provides a full geographic contact address. Their contact page now has nothing, not even a 'phone number.

 

A PO Box address was also in breach of the law.

 

Is their a difference between online selling and distance selling? Although Brassmasters have an online catalogue. you can't click and order from them in the same way you can from eBay or Amazon. I have just had a looklon eBay at an item I bought recently from a registered trader and couldn't find a postal address other than Middlesex, UK. 

[Wheatley]

I presume there are fewer people buying detailing kits, which is either an indication of how good RTR has got since they started (the forthcoming Hornby Black 5 addresses most of the shortcomings the BM kit addressed) or how lazy RTR buyers have become. The continuing development of Easi-Chass would suggest the former. No-one sells a conversion kit to beat a Lima 33 into a 26 or 27 anymore either, we all just bought the Heljan ones instead.  

Edited January 19 by Wheatley

[Fair Oak Junction]

5 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

which is either an indication of how good RTR has got since they started or how lazy RTR buyers have become.

 

I would say the former, but there are plenty of RMwebbers will likely say the latter 😉

[Jol Wilkinson]

11 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

I presume there are fewer people buying detailing kits, which is either an indication of how good RTR has got since they started (the forthcoming Hornby Black 5 addresses most of the shortcomings the BM kit addressed) or how lazy RTR buyers have become. The continuing development of Easi-Chass would suggest the former. No-one sells a conversion kit to beat a Lima 33 into a 26 or 27 anymore either, we all just bought the Heljan ones instead.  

 

Both, although I am more inclined to think that it isn't just laziness but an unwillingness to have a go at building something perceived as difficult and the fear of failure. 

 

Perhaps the "popularity"of Easi-chass and other products to "improve" RTR models such as the High Level chassis kits is more down to those who model EM and P4 gauges, than the 00 modeller wanting to improve what they see as already excellent models. The downside of the availability or such RTR models is that people tend to create layouts around what they can readily buy off the shelf, rather than choosing what they want to model and buying/building/creating the models to achieve that.

 

A look at the layouts appearing at the 4mm Society and other "finescale2 exhibitions will usually include a number of early BR steam, pre-WW2 and pre-group layouts where the models have been kit or scratch built. Contrast that to as show with a majority of 00 layouts, which will invariably have BR diesel focussed modelling.

[Wheatley]

49 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Perhaps the "popularity"of Easi-chass and other products to "improve" RTR models such as the High Level chassis kits is more down to those who model EM and P4 gauges, than the 00 modeller wanting to improve what they see as already excellent models.

Quite. Easi-Chas targets the market the RTR manufacturers aren't.   

[sjp23480]

54 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Both, although I am more inclined to think that it isn't just laziness but an unwillingness to have a go at building something perceived as difficult and the fear of failure. 

I think @Tony Wright gets it spot on.

 

When he reviews modern RTR, his view is that it so good that few kit builders (even he) cannot match it and at 1/5th of the price of a professionally built equivalent.  The Hornby Standard 2MT being the most recent example.

 

As TW relates, he continues to build kits because it gives him pleasure and his kit built locos have the haulage capacity he needs for Little Bytham. 

 

Modern RTR is so good and still very reasonably priced, considering what you get for your money. This renders many kits redundant,unless you want a very specific prototype or/and you are in that select group that prefer to build your own.

 

I also suspect others prefer not to risk ruining a pristine RTR model to detail or tweak it with extra details.  I guess this is the same when it comes to weathering?

 

 

 

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

I'm definitely in the camp of people who think a carefully done weathering job only enhances these beautifully detailed modern RTR models, but I understand people who don't.

[Crosland]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Is their a difference between online selling and distance selling? Although Brassmasters have an online catalogue. you can't click and order from them in the same way you can from eBay or Amazon. I have just had a looklon eBay at an item I bought recently from a registered trader and couldn't find a postal address other than Middlesex, UK. 

 

On-line selling rules are in addition to distance selling rules, see https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses

 

I didn't realise you couldn't order online. How do you order? The distance selling rules still requite them to provide the address before you place the order.

[robmanchester]

4 hours ago, Crosland said:

 

On-line selling rules are in addition to distance selling rules, see https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses

 

I didn't realise you couldn't order online. How do you order? The distance selling rules still requite them to provide the address before you place the order.

If somebody gets a faulty part from Brassmasters ( or another supplier ) that needs to be returned then they will have to provide an address in order that it can be sent back for replacement. Brassmasters state that they are a part-time hobby business which is fine and applies to quite a lot of our wonderful specialist suppliers. It isn't unreasonable to have a contact address when you may be spending hunders or even thousands of pounds with them though.

 

Suppliers that take credit cards as payment but don't accept Paypal sometimes worry me a bit - I understand the reason cited is that Paypal charge more in fees than CC companies. That isn't a dig at Brassmasters who have a large presence in the Hobby ( they only take Paypal for non-UK transactions ) but I know many people who don't like putting credit and debit card numbers directly into suppliers web-sites. A well known supplier told me a few years ago that he didn't take Paypal because the (Paypal)refund policy was so biased towards the buyer that he would get people cancelling orders if items went out of stock or special orders were not delivered by the quoted date.

 

Lack of response from "small" suppliers can be annoying when you send an email to ask questions. Some of them are holding down full time jobs and supplying us with the parts we desire so it is difficult to be too critical.

 

Rob