Prototypical 2 car EMU formations

[C126]

Are my memories erroneous of travelling on a 2-EPB on a 'Network [South-east] Day', on the lines either side of Mitcham Jn, leaves brushing the coach sides on the single-track sections?  I think it was a two-car set.  Certainly felt as if I were ambling along a country lane.  Bet it has been ruined by Tramlink now.  But I digress...

Edited April 11, 2022 by C126

[Tom Burnham]

On 10/04/2022 at 08:06, Oldddudders said:

I would have said the 2-HAPs were the norm from electrification. Basically, the suburban railway stopped at Gillingham, and both classes were expected beyond there. 

And 2-car Networkers were used more recently on the Sheerness branch (as in this July 2010 photo) although Class 375 units are used nowadays as the Class 466 Networkers don't have accessible toilets.
 

[Mike_Walker]

2 hours ago, C126 said:

Are my memories erroneous of travelling on a 2-EPB on a 'Network [South-east] Day', on the lines either side of Mitcham Jn, leaves brushing the coach sides on the single-track sections?  I think it was a two-car set.  Certainly felt as if I were ambling along a country lane.  Bet it has been ruined by Tramlink now.  But I digress...

More likely one of the Class 456s like this one on the Wimbledon to West Croydon service on 11 April 1992.  

 

 

Thirty years ago to the day!  The line has been replaced by Tramlink and the units were recently withdrawn.

[C126]

16 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

More likely one of the Class 456s like this one on the Wimbledon to West Croydon service on 11 April 1992.  

 

 

Thirty years ago to the day!  The line has been replaced by Tramlink and the units were recently withdrawn.

 

The Network Days were a bit earlier than these; it was still EPBs in 1986, I think, even if there were bars over the slam-door windows.

[jim.snowdon]

The 2-car unit was the staple of the Southern Railway for secondary services from the point in the 1930s when electrification expanded outside the London suburban area. They were convenient for forming services that split/joined en route, something of a Southern Railway speciality that had the useful benefit of using train paths on the core main lines more efficiently.

 

Jim

[Oldddudders]

And don't forget the Gatwick Hals, 2-car units which shuttled to and from Victoria attached to a Mid-Sussex service.

 

ISTR NSE struggled to get the 456s authorised, so the 2-EPBs clung on to their duties longer than might have been the case.  

[irishmail]

On 09/04/2022 at 17:56, 08221 said:

A 2 car class 313 (minus the centre coach) 313 034 was used on Watford Junction to Croxley Green shuttles for a short period in the early 90s.

It got nicknamed the 'Doodle Bug' when I was at Watford back in the day.  

[bécasse]

14 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

The 2-car unit was the staple of the Southern Railway for secondary services from the point in the 1930s when electrification expanded outside the London suburban area. They were convenient for forming services that split/joined en route, something of a Southern Railway speciality that had the useful benefit of using train paths on the core main lines more efficiently.

What is rarely realised is that after the Second World War, the Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Netherlands Railways) sought the advice of the Southern Railway in respect of rebuilding their shattered network. One of the most obvious results of that advice was a large fleet of 2-car EMUs (albeit overhead not third-rail) which joined up and split apart all over the place to give an intricate network of through services - and they were even painted Southern green.

[Tom Burnham]

And the Belgian railways (SNCB/NMBS) were characterized by 2-car electric units through the 1950s, 60s and 70s (I think until the 400 series 4-car units started to appear) with different ages and body styles apparently formed at random into long trains.

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, Tom Burnham said:

And the Belgian railways (SNCB/NMBS) were characterized by 2-car electric units through the 1950s, 60s and 70s (I think until the 400 series 4-car units started to appear) with different ages and body styles apparently formed at random into long trains.

And well into the 90's, when as DLR's Rolling Stock Engineer I was, for a time, paying weekly/2-weekly visits to the BN plant in Brugge. The main line trains north from Brussels were made up of 2-car AM80 units, gangwayed within set only and splitting at Ghent into three portions. Rather charmingly, the conductor would announce en route which carriage numbers were going to which destinations - much more helpful than the 'front two cars, etc'. Latterly SNCB strengthened those units to 3 cars, but the operation was still very reminiscent of traditional Southern Region.

 

Jim

[CloggyDog]

A couple from my friend Graham Clark's collection

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bécasse]

Which has triggered my memory of a 1958(?) journey from Waterloo to Reading South, which was formed 6-BIL + 2-NOL leaving Waterloo, with the 2-NOL detached at Staines for Weybridge and one 2-BIL detached at Ascot for Guildford via Aldershot, leaving 4-BIL to continue to Reading. I now suspect that it may have been a tail end of morning rush hour working rather than part of the day-long regular interval working, I certainly remember being surprised by the three-way split at the time.

[Miss Prism]

I can remember being on an early morning service in the up direction, waiting at Ascot to pick up a Guildford connection, but I can't remember a stop at Stained. I guess the pickups varied, as did the setdowns in the down direction. Normal departures from Reading were a 2-BIL plus 2-HAL pairing.

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

I can remember being on an early morning service in the up direction, waiting at Ascot to pick up a Guildford connection, but I can't remember a stop at Stained. I guess the pickups varied, as did the setdowns in the down direction. Normal departures from Reading were a 2-BIL plus 2-HAL pairing.

Actually the 4 car Reading portion could well have been a 2-HAL + 2-BIL pairing. I definitely rode in a 2-BIL but I remember seeing some HALs that day (which were familiar from the services they worked out of Victoria Eastern). I wonder now if the up service that formed our down train had worked up as an 8 car formation from Reading with a 2-NOL included to maximise peak hour seating accommodation.

[DY444]

On 11/04/2022 at 15:49, Mike_Walker said:

More likely one of the Class 456s like this one on the Wimbledon to West Croydon service on 11 April 1992.  

 

 

Thirty years ago to the day!  The line has been replaced by Tramlink and the units were recently withdrawn.

Even that very platform at Wimbledon is Tramlink too.  Literally the only bit of the branch still in use as part of the railway are the platforms and adjacent track at Mitcham Jn.

[robertcwp]

Here is a snip from the July 1939 Mondays to Fridays Waterloo Windsor Line carriage working showing the departures between 1 and 2 pm. Note the 2-car portions for each destination for the Reading/Guildford and Windsor/Weybridge trains.

 

[Nearholmer]

That is a gem.

 

Does the source cover the splitting services via Woking, and the local workings in the Guildford/Aldershot area as well? I think that may throw up more 2 car workings.

 

Services in that area were beefed-up during WW2, which I think is how HALs came to the area, but slimmed-down again at some stage, with 2-car I think going Guildford-Aldershot (reverse)-Ascot off peak until the 2 cars were withdrawn in the early 1970s.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Oldddudders]

Worth noting in Robert's extract that the units commonly referred to as "Subs" never actually had a designation in CWNs, being merely shown as 3 ..., or later as 4 .... That still obtained into the '70s when I was in Control, and as far as I know until they were withdrawn with the arrival of 455s in the 1980s.  

[Right Away]

The mention of SR 2-car EMUs (HAL, BIL and NOL) working as single units brings to mind a certain issue which could, under certain conditions, result in disaster. I refer to the occasion whereby the Westinghouse air compressor would fail to operate due to a fuse blowing. The subsequent reduction in air pressure, after a couple of brake applications (station stops) might then be unnoticed by the motorman until the train was failing to slow/stop.

(For units running in multiple, if one compressor stopped working, the other units’ compressor(s) would continue to provide the requisite 100psi to the main reservoirs and 70psi in the train pipe.)

This potential problem was well known with running single 2-car units and provided motormen kept a watch on the air gauge needles, any fall in pressure which was not restored would alert them to a problem. However, the air gauge on the old SR units was located up in the left corner of the cab, not a convenient position for easy viewing. Another point is that if a unit was being driven from the driving trailer, the sound of the compressor which was located beneath the motor coach behind was not so clear and therefore its inaction could go unnoticed.

In 1952, a single 2-car unit was running downhill and with insufficient air passed signals at danger, colliding violently with a light engine just outside Guildford, Surrey. Following this tragedy, union intervention finally decreed that 2-car units would not operate singly until a solution was found. The result was the incorporation of a control circuit governor, which if air pressure fell below 50psi would open and render the master controller unable to function. A single 2-car with a failed compressor circuit would be unable to draw traction current and therefore alert the motorman before air pressure dropped significantly to the point where the brake would not operate. The position of the air brake gauge was lowered to a level more in line with the motormens’ line of sight. The last HALs and BILs would continue to work for almost another 20 years following the aforementioned accident. 

 

For those of us running model Hornby SR units in single - watch that air gauge!

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Right Away
correction

[Wickham Green too]

18 hours ago, Right Away said:

.... In 1952, ... decreed that 2-car units would not operate singly until a solution was found. ....

Amazing they ran in traffic without a 'significant' incident as late as that ! 

[jim.snowdon]

On 14/04/2022 at 10:40, Oldddudders said:

Worth noting in Robert's extract that the units commonly referred to as "Subs" never actually had a designation in CWNs, being merely shown as 3 ..., or later as 4 .... That still obtained into the '70s when I was in Control, and as far as I know until they were withdrawn with the arrival of 455s in the 1980s.  

Were the EPBs designated as such, or did the same apply?

 

[jim.snowdon]

20 hours ago, Right Away said:

The mention of SR 2-car EMUs (HAL, BIL and NOL) working as single units brings to mind a certain issue which could, under certain conditions, result in disaster. I refer to the occasion whereby the Westinghouse air compressor would fail to operate due to a fuse blowing. The subsequent reduction in air pressure, after a couple of brake applications (station stops) might then be unnoticed by the motorman until the train was failing to slow/stop.

Which is why, at least in the 1970s, a London Underground rulebook requirement was that every train had to have at least two compressors. That meant, for example, that the double ended three-car 1973 stock units had to have two compressors on their trailer cars where the normal single ended units had only one.

 

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Amazing they ran in traffic without a 'significant' incident as late as that ! 

That is probably, as much as anything else, a testament to the sheer reliability of the Westinghouse compressors. They were once said to have been one of Westinghouse's poorest selling products - they just kept going forever, and ended up being transferred from one generation of stock to the next with nothing more than an overhaul.

 

[bécasse]

25 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Were the EPBs designated as such, or did the same apply?

 

Certainly in the carriage working books from the SED in the 1960s that I have seen, trains formed only of EPB stock would just state the total number of cars: 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10. Mixed trains were designated in full, typically 6-HAP + 4-EPB. 12 car trains formed 4-CEP + 4-BEP + 4CEP were designated ECBC.

 

In the 1950s, when there were both SUBs and EPBs working on the SED, I suspect that whichever type was the less common was designated and that may well have applied on the other two Divisions in the 1960s.

[Nearholmer]

52 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

They were once said to have been one of Westinghouse's poorest selling products

A much-missed sound too.

 

There was a certain something about travelling by BIL, a very comfy sort of train, even in their dusty decline. Windows wide open on a warm day, plenty of room to move about if you fancied a change, all the distinctive noises of contactors, valves, compressor, and so forth, and off-peak trains rarely seemed to have many passengers on them!
 

TBH, I very rarely bother with a train ride for the sake of a train ride these days, because it’s such a dull experience, sealed in a tin tube, sitting on an “adequate” chair, with loads of people all looking at their phones to ward-off boredom.

 

(I’m not even very slightly getting old, honestly I’m not)

[Wickham Green too]

The ABC of Southern Electrics of 1943 gives class designations ( NOL. BIL. etc. ) to all units except '3-Car Suburban Sets' and '2-Car Motor Sets ( for South London and Wimbledon-West Croydon services )'. The compiler / publisher was a young Southern Railway employee called Ian Allan so there can be little doubt that those designations were in use at the time.

 

Yes, Nearholmer, the sound of that compressor certainly brought back a few memories when I was on the Hastings unit the other day !