Prototypical 2 car EMU formations

[RateTheFreight]

Afternoon all,

 

For the purposes of a micro layout and because I’m a fan of older EMU’s how prototypical is it to run the likes of a 2Bil, 2Hal, 2Hap, 2EPB etc in two car formations? I gather they normally ran in greater combined formations but are there examples of regular services that just used 2 car formations? 
 

some of the books I have on the Tyneside electrics indicate they perhaps did but I’m less sure about on Southern territory.

 

TIA 

 

G 

[Phatbob]

Very rare, but not unheard of.  There were some short "shuttle" services that were just two coaches.  e.g. West Croydon - Wimbledon, Victoria to London Bridge via the South London Line, Selsdon - Elmers End, Littlehampton - Arundel, Elmers end - Sanderstead.  
There were electrified branches that ran only two coaches off-peak (e.g. Tattenham Corner, Heywards Heath - Horstead Keynes) that would double-up to four coaches in the peak.
HTH

[4630]

Monday to Friday during at least the 1970s the branch line from Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier was diagrammed for a 2HAP.  Generally it was a 4VEP at weekends. 

[stivesnick]

The North London Line was run using two car EPB units when they replaced the Class 501 stock. If you model the section from Stratford to North Woolwich you could also run some short trip freight trains from Stratford to the factories on the north bank of the Thames - there was some scrap and chemical traffic - usually Class 31 hauled.

 

Nick 

 

[Artless Bodger]

The Maidstone West to Strood line ran 2Hal on their own off peak when originally electrified - there is a photo of one somewhere on the web. Later a single 2Epb or occasionally 2Hap shuttled from MW to Strood, or ran Strood to Paddock Wood. Peak services were usually 4Epb sometimes going through to London. Later a single 466 ran services, I caught them occasionally on Saturdays from MW and I think running through to Tonbridge. I've a vague recollection of the SR style Hap as well as BR standard Hap units at New Hythe, I remember squeezing into a 2 car unit one night after working late, full of Charlton fans and police, on their way to the Barracks station to replay against Maidstone United.

 

On the Victoria route, a typical off peak service in the early 70's comprised a pair of 2Haps as far as Swanley where they divided (cue panic "are we on the right part?"), one to Gillingham the other to Maidstone East and beyond. My memory may play false but I think there were 3 services an hour to Maidstone East, one terminated, the others ran, one stopping, one semi fast to Ashford and on to Margate. We had days out as a child to Margate, single 2Hap all the way.

 

The other memory is of 3x 2car units in Ashford platform 1, one 2Hap for Victoria via Maidstone, one 2Hap for Charing Cross via Tonbridge and the third a 2H for Hastings. Woe betide the passenger boarding the wrong unit! One evening returning from Folkestone we were on the Victoria service, arriving at Charing (first stop) a lady realised she was on the wrong train "Does this stop at Hildenborough?" She had to either return to Ashford or go on the Otford and catch the Sevenoaks train via Bat and Ball!

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

27 minutes ago, Artless Bodger said:

The Maidstone West to Strood line ran .... a single 466 ......

Nobody's mentioned Bromley North ........ generally a single 466 in recent years - though I think a four-car unit's used at present to give a little more covid-space. 

[08221]

A 2 car class 313 (minus the centre coach) 313 034 was used on Watford Junction to Croxley Green shuttles for a short period in the early 90s.

[Artless Bodger]

1 minute ago, 08221 said:

A 2 car class 313 (minus the centre coach) 313 034 was used on Watford Junction to Croxley Green shuttles for a short period in the early 90s.

That's interesting, I had not twigged that the middle vehicle only supported the ac electrical bits, and the driving motors were the dc parts. But thinking of the 2Pep unit it falls into place.

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, Phatbob said:

Very rare, but not unheard of.  There were some short "shuttle" services that were just two coaches.  e.g. West Croydon - Wimbledon, Victoria to London Bridge via the South London Line, Selsdon - Elmers End, Littlehampton - Arundel, Elmers end - Sanderstead.  
There were electrified branches that ran only two coaches off-peak (e.g. Tattenham Corner, Heywards Heath - Horstead Keynes) that would double-up to four coaches in the peak.
HTH

All good stuff. But I might add that Elmers End to Addiscombe 'poppers' were 2-car during the off-peak, and those 2-EPBs on the Tatt branch actually coupled at Purley to a 4-car from Caterham to run through to Charing Cross. And prior to the 466s, 2-EPBs were the norm for off-peak Grove Park to Bromley North 'poppers' in the later slam-door era. 

[KeithHC]

Some Redhill to Reigate workings where 2 car. They joined to a larger formation at Redhill onwards to London.

 

Keith

[phil gollin]

.

 

Always oddities, but in general the off-peak Tattenham Corner/Caterham branch trains were formed by a 4-EPB leading from Charing Cross, which split at Purley (to continue to Caterham).  the rear was formed by a 2-EPB which went on to Tattenham corner.  Peak trains had the 2-EPB bolstered by a 4-EPB making a 6 car unit.  The 2-EPB (or 2-EPB + 4-EPB) almost always arrived at Purley before the Caterham 4-EPB, often leaving the previous station, Reedham, a couple of minutes early (!).  Variations, obviously, occurred, e.g 2 x 2-EPB on the Caterham branch, and 2 x 4-EPB on the Tattenham Corner branch (requiring a double stop at some stations).  Sometimes during the day the 2-EPB was taken off the front at Purley and stored at a siding, then reattached to a later train to Tattenham Corner.

 

The West Croydon to Wimbledon trains were more simple, but I have pictures of 4-SUB and 4-EPB on the branch.  At least once (in January 1967) in snow and icy weather one 2-EPB failed at Merton Halt unable to achieve traction.  Eventually the other unit working the line came up from behind, coupled up and, with difficulty, pushed the first unit into Wimbledon Station.

 

.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by phil gollin

[Nearholmer]

All the ones I can remember have been mentioned, although it might be worth looking deeper at the trains from Charing Cross which split at Tonbridge, because I think the ‘front bit’ which ran fast to Ashord then subdivided for Canterbury and Dover.

 

Earlier than I can remember in detail though, there were complex pattens in the Woking-Guildford-Aldershot-Reading-Ascot area, which I’m pretty sure involved 2-BIL/HAL running solo on some legs of the service  off-peak ….. I can recall the strings of BIL/HALs at Woking, but you’d need to delve further.

 

Brighton- Seaford for some of the day maybe?

 

South London Line. Or has that been covered already?

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Nearholmer

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Nobody's mentioned Bromley North ........ generally a single 466 in recent years - though I think a four-car unit's used at present to give a little more covid-space. 

Thats more to do with recent changes to disability regulations which mandate that if a train has a toilet then at least one of them must be one of the huge ‘accessible’ type.

 

Fitting one of those on a 2 car unit is not viable (removes too many seats) and as such running 2 car units which have a non accessible toilet has stopped in favour of 4 car units (where fitting an ‘accessible’ toilet is viable).

[MidlandRed]

The Sittingbourne to Sheerness branch was worked for a number of years by single class 466 units - they had issues at times in icy or snowy weather - the trains have been worked by 3 car class 375/3 for several years now (similarly the Medway Valley line, changed from 466 to 375/3). I have seen photos of 2 EPBs on the Sheerness branch trains in the early 60s. 

[Wickham Green too]

42 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Thats more to do with recent changes to disability regulations which mandate that if a train has a toilet then at least one of them must be one of the huge ‘accessible’ type.

I don't think I'd like to try to gamble on getting a wheelchair into the cubicle, use the facilities and get out in the five minutes available !!?!

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, 08221 said:

A 2 car class 313 (minus the centre coach) 313 034 was used on Watford Junction to Croxley Green shuttles for a short period in the early 90s.

Wasn’t the centre vehicle away being used for some sort of testing at the time?

 

The 483s (1938 tube stock) and new replacement 484s on the Isle of Wight are also 2 car units, although again that’s a bit niche.

[ColinK]

A different part of the country, while most of the Clacton emus were four car sets, there were some 2 car units too.  Looked a bit odd with a pantograph at one end.

[eastwestdivide]

9 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

I have seen photos of 2 EPBs on the Sheerness branch trains in the early 60s. 

Also 2-HAPs at various periods on the Sheerness Sittingbourne shuttle.

Single 2-EPBs used for parcel runs too in Kent. I’ve a photo of one on here somewhere I think.

[Oldddudders]

54 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Also 2-HAPs at various periods on the Sheerness Sittingbourne shuttle.

I would have said the 2-HAPs were the norm from electrification. Basically, the suburban railway stopped at Gillingham, and both classes were expected beyond there. 

[Titan]

12 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Wasn’t the centre vehicle away being used for some sort of testing at the time?

 

The 483s (1938 tube stock) and new replacement 484s on the Isle of Wight are also 2 car units, although again that’s a bit niche.

 

You might be right, at about that time a centre coach was incorporated into the networker traction package test train, to test 25kv operation, which comprised of converted class 210 trailer vehicles, and numbered 316 999.

[Nick Holliday]

19 hours ago, RateTheFreight said:

Afternoon all,

 

For the purposes of a micro layout and because I’m a fan of older EMU’s how prototypical is it to run the likes of a 2Bil, 2Hal, 2Hap, 2EPB etc in two car formations? I gather they normally ran in greater combined formations but are there examples of regular services that just used 2 car formations? 
 

some of the books I have on the Tyneside electrics indicate they perhaps did but I’m less sure about on Southern territory.

 

G 

Since @RateTheFreight is a fan of "older" EMU's, perhaps digging further back in time is permissible. 

The LBSCR's original electrification of the South London Line was originally provided with three coach trains, but, due to a miscalculation of demand, the arrangement of two motor thirds and a full first failed to match demand, so they rapidly removed the firsts, and provided single composite trailers, of a different style, to go with each motor car, creating a fleet of two car units, which ran singly during off-peak periods.

On the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway, one of their earlier schemes was to tie up with the Liverpool Overhead Railway, providing a number of two coach lightweight units, which often operated singly.

They also carried out an experimental overhead DC scheme on the Holcombe Brook branch, using a single motor car with a driving trailer.

Earlier, the Midland Railway had introduced AC overhead to the Heysham-Morecambe line, with three motor cars and four trailers. Normally (?) running with a motor car sandwiched between two trailers, depending on traffic they could run as one, two or three car units. @Jamie24 can probably provide more information.

The NER and L&YR had a number of powerful parcel/pram cars that could run singly or with other stock.

[Oldddudders]

That's a splendid LBSCR pic outside Peckham Rye car sheds!

[Wickham Green too]

4 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

..... Single 2-EPBs used for parcel runs too in Kent. .....

Not to mention assorted de-icing and stores units over the years.

[Engineer]

In the category of older EMUs, albeit on the brink of being out-of-topic, a sketchy note:

The Metropolitan had two single Motor Coaches, rebuilt from damaged Saloon motor cars around 1910.  A body style with Composite accommodation and luggage space was created for these rebuilds, and was a pilot for the Main Line Stock (aka Dreadnought) design.  Scratch-aids or a kit are available.  The traction equipments of each Motor Coach were different, therefore they were incompatible with one another.   Each shuttle Motor Coach could be used to form in longer consists with equivalent-equipped Saloon Motor and Trailer cars.   As well as being used as single coach shuttles (for example in the Uxbridge branch from Harrow) the formation was often strengthened with a compatible Driving Trailer car (typically one of the few with Composite accommodation) of Saloon Stock.  There's an aerial image that shows the Rickmansworth 2-vehicle formation in Watford (Metropolitan) platform 2, albeit extremely tiny unless enlarged: 

 https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW019235

 

The shuttle stock served for a long time on the Edgware Road - Addison Road service and from the late 1920s to the early 1930s there was a Rickmansworth - Watford shuttle.  By this time, there is evidence that there were two [specific and different] Composite Saloon Driving Trailers in use, each one compatible with one of the Motor Coaches.  Final use of the Motor Coaches was on the Stanmore branch off-peak shuttles, one lasting until the late 1930s.  I don't have any non-copyright images of the 2-vehicle formations to show but they exist in books and publications and on Facebook, and the nearest to hand is a video with a glimpse of one Motor Coach leading an off-peak 3-vehicle [i.e. mixed Coach and Car stock] train at about 40 seconds:  
https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/film-video/item/2005-3467

 

Linked to the Metropolitan, in the mid-1930s the Edgware Road - Addison Road service was operated for a brief period by 2-car trains of 1906 H&C Saloon Stock [Motor+Driving Trailer].  

 

Finally, although I'm not expert on Underground matters, there were various instances of 2-car operation on various lines for example the 2-car trains of District stock on their frequent shuttle to Uxbridge up the early 1930s and on services to South Acton, latterly including substitution for the single car  shuttle.  I think there were multiple instances of 2-car off-peak operations on the tube lines in earlier years and one last instance was a 2-car off-peak service on the Northern City line in the 1960s, using a 'Standard' Stock motor car and a control trailer.
 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Engineer
Removed broken link

[robertcwp]

There are plenty of examples from the SR and not just branch shuttles such as Wimbledon-West Croydon, Elmers End-Addiscombe, Bromley North, Lymington or Sheerness. The Southern used to have portioned workings such as Waterloo-Reading/Guildford via Ascot, Victoria-Gillingham/Maidstone East, Charing Cross-Caterham/Tattenham Corner, Waterloo-Windsor/Weybridge. All could simply be 2-car units for each destination.

 

Here are some examples:

 

2NOL_1829_Lewes_16-3-58_m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

2-EPB_5662_MitchamJct_22-7-82 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

2-Hap_5636_Fratton by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

2-EPB_5771_M25-bridge_nr-Chertsey_21-4-82 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

2-EPB_5794_Tadworth by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

2-HAP_6079_10-3-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

2-HAP_6154_MaidstW_25-5-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

466014_Addiscombe-2_3-97 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr