DCC system advice - help wanted for further research

[Steadfast]

Hi all,

 

A section of the forum I never thought I'd be posting in...

 

I'm taking some tentative steps in researching DCC systems after playing with Oldshaw last weekend (so it's all @lyneux's fault!). I've been googling and searching the forum, but I'm still getting my head around the terminology so not always having much luck. 

 

I'm thinking that a second hand system may be a good way to get started. I'm not overly keen on the use of phones for driving trains, preferring an actual controller.

 

I bought a layout last year that is wired for DCC. I was going to rewire it, but perhaps going DCC is easier?

 

A few things I'd like:

 

- 5 digit displays on the controller (alphanumeric of possible?). I know this is different to the 2 or 4 digit addresses, but don't know what it's called. I'd like a loco to show as 60065 for example, rather than 6065, or name the HST as HST if that's possible.

 

- ability to connect to JMRI for future proofing and the ability to program decoders via Decoder Pro. Possibly use JMRI for route setting, I hate doing points via function buttons on the controller. 

 

- a walkabout would be nice but not crucial.

 

- not bank breaking: the Digitrax Zephyr Xpress seems to do it all apart from the 5 digit names, and I like the physical levers and switches and is about £200. Whilst I will have cash to spend on the hobby the next few months, it will be tighter than usual but it will be a good period for playing trains hopefully.

 

I saw a Digitrax Zephyr Xpress (DCS51) on ebay, but it was the old model and went for more than I'd pay for that, plus having to buy a USB adapter, when the current one (DCS52), with USB socket, can be had for under £200.

 

The Multimaus system on Oldshaw offers 5 digit displays, but a quick search it looks an expensive system to get started?

 

Any help very gratefully appreciated!

 

Jo

 

 

[WIMorrison]

If you want to show a Loco name rather than the decoder address then something like the Roco Multmaus which is available as wireless or wired is an excellent choice.

 

You can use it on anything that has an XPressNet bus connection. 

[boxbrownie]

Or if you really want to splash out the ESU Controller £600 of lovely easy control of two tracks and a mimic layout with point control at the touch of a finger.

 

I realise it is costly but with the price of sound fitted locos nowadays it’s getting more realistic.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The complete MultiMaus system, used to be available at a very reasonable cost  (usually in the £75 to £90 range).

These were sold by retailers or dealers, who split them from Roco digital train sets and sold the loco and coaches, or wagons, separately from the MultiMaus system and the supplied track.

It was a very cheap and cost effective way to get into DCC and a great saving (less than half price) on buying the MultiMaus as a stand-alone system in its own packaging.

 

The MultiMaus system has been discontinued for a few years, having been replaced in Roco digital train sets by the entry level version of the Z21 system (either the z21 or z21 Start)  - note the lower and upper case  z or Z

Dealers are nowadays selling the z21 or z21 Start split from train sets, as they previously did with the MultiMaus.

These fall comfortably into the price range you are looking at.

 

Although optimised for use with smartphones or tablets (e.g. iPad), the system can also be used with a traditional type handset, with physical buttons and a control knob.

 

Roco still produce the original MultiMaus handset (although not the discontinued complete system) and this can be plugged into any of the z21 or Z21 versions.

The cheaper, entry level z21 and z21 Start already come with one in the box.

 

Roco also produce a wireless version of this same handset (no need to be restricted by a connecting chord/cable), for a very similar cost to the original wired version.

 

 

Having use of the full loco number, or even an alphanumeric name, is only available on non-US DCC systems.

That rules out Digitrax, NCE, MRC (inc. the Gaugemaster badged clones) and other brands like CVP (which most will never have heard of outside the US).

Most Europe brands incorporate such a facility.

It's referred to in different ways, such as Loco Naming, Aliasing, Alphanumeric loco naming, Loco ID etc, etc.

The number of characters available, varies between manufacturers.

It can be as many as 8 or 12.

Hence you can have things like "Mallard",  "66135", "HST 104' or whatever takes your fancy.

It's only of use if your system handset or console screens, allow for rapid scrolling and selection of locos, from the built-in roster (memory).

 

 

 

As for point changing, look at the DCC Concepts Cobalt Alpha range.

It will work alongside any DCC system and allow you to use a mimic style control panel, with physical buttons or switches, independent switches, or mini lever frames....all on DCC via a simple 2 wire connection to the track or accessory bus.

You can have it as a stand-alone, or connect it to your DCC system.

Flexible and with less hassle.

If you were only considering JMRI for switching points, you might want to look at this as an alternative.

However, it doesn't give you access to Decoder Pro, although you might just have that on its own.

 

 

.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Ron Ron Ron

[grriff]

If you are looking to use JMRI, consider a SPROG. I managed to buy a SPROGII on ebay for around £30. You can use a smartphone as well as a computer to control locos. 

It may be possible to link a Bluetooth controller if you don't want to use a smartphone

Edited April 14, 2022 by grriff
Added note re controller

[jpendle]

47 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

- 5 digit displays on the controller (alphanumeric of possible?). I know this is different to the 2 or 4 digit addresses, but don't know what it's called. I'd like a loco to show as 60065 for example, rather than 6065, or name the HST as HST if that's possible.

Hi,

 

This will rule out many systems, particularly the US designed ones, so Digitrax, NCE, & Gaugemaster (rebadged MRC).

 

You need to be looking at stuff that was designed this century 😀

 

So the Roco z21/Z21 would give this, albeit with a Phone or Tablet interface, but when funds are available a Multimaus can be added for a more "traditional" look and feel.

 

The Z21(Black) while more expensive will also connect to almost anything as it supports lots of different interfaces. LAN/Wifi is there by default, it supports Loconet and various other DCC busses.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 14/04/2022 at 17:30, jpendle said:

.....You need to be looking at stuff that was designed this century 😀

 

🤣🤣🤣  

How true John.

The NCE system has its roots in the early Wangrow System One, which came out 28 years ago !!!!!!

It's had a few tweaks and updates over the years since NCE took it over, but it's essentially a system designed 30 years ago !

It still works well though and people love its straightforward simplicity and user interface.

 

 

On 14/04/2022 at 17:30, jpendle said:

.......So the Roco z21/Z21 would give this, albeit with a Phone or Tablet interface, but when funds are available a Multimaus can be added for a more "traditional" look and feel....

 

 

As most (white coloured) z21 and z21 Start systems come from split train sets, they already come with a MultiMaus included.

 

The z21 Start can only be used with tethered (red) MultiMaus handsets as it doesn't have any WiFi capability out of the box.

You can't use it with a tablet, smartphone or WLAN MultiMaus, unless you purchase the optional WiFi upgrade kit, to bring it up to z21 (small z) standard.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Ron Ron Ron

[Hamburger]

z21.

[SamThomas]

Another vote for the Roco Maultimaus - couple of options ;

 

10833 - comes with z21 Start & a wired Multimaus - RRP £235, should get for sub £200.

 

51330 - comes with z21 Start & a wired Multimaus - RRP £275, should get for around £275 - should be able to sell the locomotive & wagons for around £100 making it quite cost effective & you can  keep the track for testing.

 

Both sets able to be upgraded to wi-fi so you can use the wi-fi Multimaus or tablet***/phone ( the tablet could be useful for keeping all you stock details on).

 

The Powerscab is popular but very dated now & no ability to name your locomotives.personally, I would avoid anything from Hornby or (with the exception of Roco) anything that is from a trainset manufacturer.

 

*** When you use a tablet with the z/Z21 range you can load images of your locomotives to make them eaier to find.

I know of a few people (including myself) who swore they would never use any form of computer to control their model railway who have backpeddled.

[Ron Ron Ron]

It’s not only Roco.
Quite a few systems have the loco naming feature, but not any of the American ones.

There’s no incentive or need for them in N. America, as their loco running numbers are usually 3 or 4 digits long, which aligns with the 4 digit DCC address format.

 

Check out eBay for the z21 entry level system.

£135 to £160 + p&p should net you brand new system.

 

For example…
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175239507565?hash=item28cd16ae6d:g:~3YAAOSwmcBhyEE~
 

….or here.

 

Sometimes there are lots of them on there, available from Germany, France, Italy and here in the UK.

Other times, there are only one or two up for sale.
 

 

 

.

[WIMorrison]

Amazing that the American Railways adopted the NMRA Standard for loco numbering - if only we, and the rest of the world, had done the same 😅

[Phil Bullock]

8 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Amazing that the American Railways adopted the NMRA Standard for loco numbering - if only we, and the rest of the world, had done the same 😅

We did  …. Ex GWR steam in BR days and more modem traction until someone decided we needed to adopt a European model with TOPs ….

[Steadfast]

Thanks all for the comments so far, the multimaus seems to be the frontrunner thus far, especially as I've actually used it.

 

Think I need to digest what's been posted thus far and weigh up options.

 

Cheers!

 

Jo

[TWG]

Another system that is worth looking at, in my opinion, is the Piko Smart Control light.  It offers a lot for the fairly modest price and meets most of your requirements (though you would need a Loconet USB interface to connect to the internet).  The SCL is an Uhlenbrock Daisy in a different box, which opens the possibility of using accessories from that manufacturer and other Loconet producers.

[WIMorrison]

3 hours ago, TWG said:

...though you would need a Loconet USB interface to connect to the internet)...

 

Why on earth would you need to connect it to the Internet?

[Steadfast]

I've had a browse over the last few days and have settled on the Multimaus and z21 start package, with a WiFi add on.  A mix of familiarity from playing with Oldshaw and it doing pretty much all I need. The WiFi add on means friends can play trains too without needing multiple throttles at around £100 each and I can use a phone or tablet for programming. Let's see how we get on!

 

Thanks again for all the help

 

Jo

[TWG]

18 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Why on earth would you need to connect it to the Internet?

A good question.  You probably would not.  Sorry, my thinking was confused.  There are however 2 reasons why I, if I had the Piko system, would want an internet connection.  The first is for software updates.  The second is because I think that the Uhlenbrock programme Daisy-Tool would work with the Piko.  This makes it quick and easy to enter into the databank locomotive numbers and names, symbols for function outputs (including drawing your own symbols if the ready made ones do not include anything suitable), route setting etc.  This can be done on the handset, but the process is very time consuming and tedious.

[boxbrownie]

6 minutes ago, TWG said:

A good question.  You probably would not.  Sorry, my thinking was confused.  There are however 2 reasons why I, if I had the Piko system, would want an internet connection.  The first is for software updates.  The second is because I think that the Uhlenbrock programme Daisy-Tool would work with the Piko.  This makes it quick and easy to enter into the databank locomotive numbers and names, symbols for function outputs (including drawing your own symbols if the ready made ones do not include anything suitable), route setting etc.  This can be done on the handset, but the process is very time consuming and tedious.

The biggest reason I went for the ESU controller station was it’s less like a hand held computer/telephone and more like a traditional twin “knob” model railways controller in action, and very straight forward and logical to use.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 14/04/2022 at 16:37, Steadfast said:

 

- 5 digit displays on the controller (alphanumeric of possible?). I know this is different to the 2 or 4 digit addresses, but don't know what it's called. I'd like a loco to show as 60065 for example, rather than 6065, or name the HST as HST if that's possible.

 

- ability to connect to JMRI for future proofing and the ability to program decoders via Decoder Pro. Possibly use JMRI for route setting, I hate doing points via function buttons on the controller. 

 

 

You would benefit from thinking of a system as separate components rather than the old fashioned DC 'controller':

 

Throttles: These accepts commands from you & send them to the control system. You can have more than 1 throttle & also more than 1 type.

Command centre: A layout has 1 & only 1 of these. It accepts commands from throttles & sends out control signals to locos & accessories.

Booster: These take the low level signals from the command centre & add the power required to drive your trains (& accessories). If you have lots going on, you can split the layout up into separate power districts.

Many systems contain 2 or all 3 of these in the same box.

 

It may seem fussy, but if you think this way, you can control points by a train throttle (by pressing buttons), but a mimic panel or console is also a throttle, so you can throw points by pressing buttons on a track diagram or, if you prefer, a line of levers. You can even consider a computer to be a throttle. I have see someone use a PC with a touchscreen & JMRI to throw points.

You can also have duplicate panels so you can throw points from either end of a layout but this can be confusing with levers because the lever may not represent which way the point is set.

DCC concepts market a decent range for point control & there are alternatives.

[WIMorrison]

7 hours ago, TWG said:

A good question.  You probably would not.  Sorry, my thinking was confused.  There are however 2 reasons why I, if I had the Piko system, would want an internet connection.  The first is for software updates.  The second is because I think that the Uhlenbrock programme Daisy-Tool would work with the Piko.  This makes it quick and easy to enter into the databank locomotive numbers and names, symbols for function outputs (including drawing your own symbols if the ready made ones do not include anything suitable), route setting etc.  This can be done on the handset, but the process is very time consuming and tedious.

i think that you mean a network connection to a home computer not a connection to the Internet.

[SamThomas]

On 17/04/2022 at 11:39, Steadfast said:

I've had a browse over the last few days and have settled on the Multimaus and z21 start package, with a WiFi add on.  A mix of familiarity from playing with Oldshaw and it doing pretty much all I need. The WiFi add on means friends can play trains too without needing multiple throttles at around £100 each and I can use a phone or tablet for programming. Let's see how we get on!

 

Thanks again for all the help

 

Jo

Be sure to keep us updated with progress.