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Make up of Pope's Special 1982 from Gatwick

Christopher42

By Christopher42,
in UK Prototype Questions

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keefer

keefer

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The train is mentioned in the July and August 1982 R.O.

Ran on 28th May under headcode HF and was the only train journey on the Pope's visit.

A photo shows the 3 coaches to be Mk1 but (oddly, I think) no numbers are given.

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Goldhawk

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17 hours ago, Christopher42 said:

I want to model the train used for the Pope's visit in 1982, for Gatwick Airport to London. Hauled by 73142 with TDB 975025 'Caroline', two FK and BCK. Can anyone tell me the running numbers for those last three coaches?

The second and third coaches are FOs.

 

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adb968008

adb968008

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11 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

That loco seems to be making a lot of white smoke. Had a new pope just been elected?

 

Reminds me one of my favourite news paper headlines…

 

and it wasnt even one of our papers, but the good old New York Times, which read “Holy Smoke, Popes Vote, but no Cigar”…. 
 

(They were voting but it was black not white smoke).

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steve1023

steve1023

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On 21/04/2022 at 21:42, Christopher42 said:

I want to model the train used for the Pope's visit in 1982, for Gatwick Airport to London. Hauled by 73142 with TDB 975025 'Caroline', two FK and BCK. Can anyone tell me the running numbers for those last three coaches?

Can't help with the numbers, but wouldn't they be FO - not FK. The SR didn't have an allocation of FK if I recall, but did have FO. 

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Michael Hodgson

Michael Hodgson

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12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Reminds me one of my favourite news paper headlines…

 

and it wasnt even one of our papers, but the good old New York Times, which read “Holy Smoke, Popes Vote, but no Cigar”…. 
 

(They were voting but it was black not white smoke).

New York's full of Irish ex-Pats, but this editor must be one of the  Prods.

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DY444

DY444

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2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Just out of interest, for high profile trains such as this and royal movements etc, what precautions, if any, were taken to reduce the chance of a loco failure?

 

I expect those who were actually involved will be along to give chapter and verse but I imagine it was just the obvious things. 

 

So choosing a locomotive that was in good nick (and over time "pet" or "royal" locomotives emerged on some regions, eg 73142 on the SR, which tended to be well kept), make sure the locomotive was technically checked thoroughly before hand with particular emphasis on known weaknesses of the class, have a traction inspector and fitter travel on the locomotive to attend to any running repairs, choose a crew who knew the locomotive type inside out and thus knew how to avoid stressing the locomotive, and finally, have at least one strategically placed standby locomotive in case the worst happened.

 

 

Edited by DY444
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KeithHC

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On the pictures it is departing on diesel. I was at work at Gatwick that day but on the airport not near the station. Well at least I could do my plane spotting instead of train spotting. One office I worked in now part of the bloc hotel I had a full view of both the whole of the airport and if I turned around a view of the Brighton line north of the platforms to nearly Horley. 
 

It was hell! But someone had to do it……………..he he he.

 

Keith

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MidlandRed

MidlandRed

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On 21/04/2022 at 23:58, Michael Hodgson said:

I don't know about His Holiness' train, but the first bulletproof Popemobile was made in Letchworth for that visit, based on a Range Rover.


I feel rather disappointed the ‘Popemobile’, as it was referred to at the time, wasn’t carried on a Lowmac or similar, at the rear of the Papal express - presumably the rendezvous with that was later?

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Michael Hodgson

Michael Hodgson

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55 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:


I feel rather disappointed the ‘Popemobile’, as it was referred to at the time, wasn’t carried on a Lowmac or similar, at the rear of the Papal express - presumably the rendezvous with that was later?

You mean he could have travelled in it on the lowmac and waved at the bowler-hatted commuters as he passed though Clapham Junction, and they wouldn't have needed Caroline ?  I suppose he didn't need road transport immediately after kissing the runway at Gatwick as that's rail-served.  His special was a missed opportunity, if it had been steam hauled the press could have said Holy Smoke, a tender full of Holy Water!

 

4 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Just out of interest, for high profile trains such as this and royal movements etc, what precautions, if any, were taken to reduce the chance of a loco failure?

 

Failure??  Perish the thought!  Wasn't that still in the days of papal infallibility?

 

What surprises me is that they used Caroline at all.  The Royal train has often been made available for visiting Heads of State.  That's not just a courtesy to a VIP on an important occasion, it makes life a lot easier for the security services who have to provide protection, and of course there were still assorted fanatics who saw the pope as an "anti-christ".  Perhaps it was thought too controversial to use a train seen as belonging to the head of the CofE ?

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Steamport Southport

Steamport Southport

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On 24/04/2022 at 11:47, Michael Hodgson said:

You mean he could have travelled in it on the lowmac and waved at the bowler-hatted commuters as he passed though Clapham Junction, and they wouldn't have needed Caroline ?  I suppose he didn't need road transport immediately after kissing the runway at Gatwick as that's rail-served.  His special was a missed opportunity, if it had been steam hauled the press could have said Holy Smoke, a tender full of Holy Water!

 

 

Failure??  Perish the thought!  Wasn't that still in the days of papal infallibility?

 

What surprises me is that they used Caroline at all.  The Royal train has often been made available for visiting Heads of State.  That's not just a courtesy to a VIP on an important occasion, it makes life a lot easier for the security services who have to provide protection, and of course there were still assorted fanatics who saw the pope as an "anti-christ".  Perhaps it was thought too controversial to use a train seen as belonging to the head of the CofE ?

 

Same reason they used a Class 73, Caroline and a few coaches for Charles and Diana's post wedding train. There were terrorist threats so they used something a bit less visible. ISTR reading they also used decoys.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129218958@N05/50697601808

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24972344@N02/8234909084

 

 

Jason

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frobisher

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7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Same reason they used a Class 73, Caroline and a few coaches for Charles and Diana's post wedding train. There were terrorist threats so they used something a bit less visible.

 

Er excuse me?  The route, the timings and the stock used were known well in advance.  Stock appropriate to the route was used, I'm not sure if the Royal Train MKIII's were cleared for 3rd rail routes.

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