Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[Maltazer]

It does seem strange (and I am another who has bought one to go with the expensive one from a month ago!).  It's weird enough that it will be getting a more-thorough-than-usual test when it arrives!

 

BTW,  that's not meant to be a slight on Kernow, just me being careful when it comes to bargains!

 

Mal

Edited February 20, 2015 by Maltazer

[Stevelewis]

If  kernow  can  order  108  it  looks  like  there  is  plenty of  unsold  stock around  consider also  the  reduced  prices (£60) for  the  2-BILs and  also some reduced steam locos listed,

 

Also  Hornby  are  offering  £50 off the  purchase  of  the 2 variant of  the  5-BEL

 

It may be  Hornby  are  after  getting a  bit  of  cash in ?

 

I think that  it  may well be  a good idea  to  keep a close  watch  there may be  more  bargains to be  had

 

Just a quick query also for recent  4-VEP  purchasers,  how are  the  running  qualities?  We bought some  of  the  first  releases  but all were  returned  as   poor runners and  derailers! and we  never considered  buyung any more

[JSpencer]

If blue grey EMUs are not selling (remember There were bargain offers on Bachmann's 4-CEPs and 2-EPBs last year or the year before too), it does not bode well for new models of the type I fear.

 

But it is curious that these are being cut down in price so shortly after release, I might understand if they were sitting around for a year. However I fear that one consequence of outsourcing the warehousing part has now lead to a 'shift em quick' policy.

This is not apt for the type of business Hornby are in. Trains types do not pop in and out of fashion like clothes after all!

Edited February 20, 2015 by JSpencer

[metadyneman]

The shortcomings of the VEP were well documented in the early days of this thread. I have two of them now and they have settled down to life in the garden reasonably well. I haven't paid over £100 for either of them and neither would I. The kernow offer is tempting but I really can't justify yet another 4-car EMU to go with the 5 I already have.... So I went for a 2-BIL in blue for £60 instead.  Long live the discounted model locos coaches and MU's!  The longer you discount them , the more you are likely to sell them :-)

[andyman7]

The production run was probably at least 1500 or so, so selling 108+ at a discount doesn't constitute dumping the majority of the stock. It does appear that Hornby want this one in and out of the door as quickly as possible though.   

[Maltazer]

If blue grey EMUs are not selling (remember There were bargain offers on Bachmann's 4-CEPs and 2-EPBs last year or the year before too), it does not bode well for new models of the type I fear.

 

But it is curious that these are being cut down in price so shortly after release, I might understand if they were sitting around for a year. However I fear that one consequence of outsourcing the warehousing part has now lead to a 'shift em quick' policy.

This is not apt for the type of business Hornby are in. Trains types do not pop in and out of fashion like clothes after all!

 

Except that they did sell, albeit at a discount.  What I take from this is that suppliers still have no idea what price to charge for these items.  If they don't move at £199, but sell in minutes at £99, that suggests the optimum price lies somewhere in between.  Considering that Hatton's sold out of theirs at £165, it's not unreasonable to presume that Kernow could have made quite a bit more and still shifted their stock.  But now they've set expectations at £99, who is going to pay more?

 

The same could be said of some other releases - the Bachmann Polybulks vanished in seconds at their original ~£30 price, but forum mutterings suggest they'll all be gathering dust with a second run at £60 a pop.

 

I'm not saying I could do any better, but then I get paid to create Internet phone services, not sell model railways.  But I'd expect the people whose job it is to forecast demand and set prices accordingly to be somewhat more able than me - in many ways the future of RTR depends on it.

 

Mal

[Purley Oaks]

Chatted with a Hornby rep at Model Rail Scotland today about the sudden discounting of the blue/grey 4VEP; he didn't know it had happened and asked if I had bought one at full price. He said that it may be either over-production or a mistake by Hornby.

No other dealer at the SECC had the 4VEP for anything less then £160, most were above. Most 2BILs were well over Kernow's £60, too.

Get 'em while you can:)

Mal

[Mike Storey]

Except that they did sell, albeit at a discount.  What I take from this is that suppliers still have no idea what price to charge for these items.  If they don't move at £199, but sell in minutes at £99, that suggests the optimum price lies somewhere in between.  Considering that Hatton's sold out of theirs at £165, it's not unreasonable to presume that Kernow could have made quite a bit more and still shifted their stock.  But now they've set expectations at £99, who is going to pay more?

 

Mal

 

But Kernow DID sell out of their original stock of the new Blue/Grey 4 VEPs at about the same price as Hattons - I bought two of theirs as well as one from Hattons, at those prices. This is NEW, extra stock which has not yet arrived from Hornby, and for which they must have negotiated a big discount. I feel cheated but also disappointed that no-one, especially Hornby have made any effort over this unit to sell it at nearer the RRP - no adverts, reviews or anything you would normally expect with a new delivery - so that they and the other main manf's would get a much better idea of demand for a 4 car EMU, DMU or DEMU in the near future.

[Mike Storey]

If  kernow  can  order  108  it  looks  like  there  is  plenty of  unsold  stock around  consider also  the  reduced  prices (£60) for  the  2-BILs and  also some reduced steam locos listed,

 

Also  Hornby  are  offering  £50 off the  purchase  of  the 2 variant of  the  5-BEL

 

It may be  Hornby  are  after  getting a  bit  of  cash in ?

 

I think that  it  may well be  a good idea  to  keep a close  watch  there may be  more  bargains to be  had

 

Just a quick query also for recent  4-VEP  purchasers,  how are  the  running  qualities?  We bought some  of  the  first  releases  but all were  returned  as   poor runners and  derailers! and we  never considered  buyung any more

 

The new 4 VEPs are far superior runners. The gearing has been changed and they are much smoother right from the start, and the one I have fully run-in so far, is superior to an order of magnitude to the original model (of which I only purchased one). I have had no de-railment problems, in either direction. I use Peco Code 75 track and large and medium radii points plus some Tillig points and about 5m of C&L code 83 track.

[Maltazer]

But Kernow DID sell out of their original stock of the new Blue/Grey 4 VEPs at about the same price as Hattons - I bought two of theirs as well as one from Hattons, at those prices. This is NEW, extra stock which has not yet arrived from Hornby, and for which they must have negotiated a big discount. I feel cheated but also disappointed that no-one, especially Hornby have made any effort over this unit to sell it at nearer the RRP - no adverts, reviews or anything you would normally expect with a new delivery - so that they and the other main manf's would get a much better idea of demand for a 4 car EMU, DMU or DEMU in the near future.

 

If it's new stock then this makes even less sense :-/

 

Mal

[pauln]

The new 4 VEPs are far superior runners. The gearing has been changed and they are much smoother right from the start, and the one I have fully run-in so far, is superior to an order of magnitude to the original model (of which I only purchased one). I have had no de-railment problems, in either direction. I use Peco Code 75 track and large and medium radii points plus some Tillig points and about 5m of C&L code 83 track.

 

That's good news. After buying and sending back two terrible runners I swore I'd not get another but at £99 it was just too hard to resist having another try. I'm hoping it will be worth the money.

 

Edit : I've just had the despatch note for the VEP and a BIL from Kernow so they must have had more in stock. Their web site now says "Please note we will have more stock available very shortly when we have collected it from our secure storage - we did not expect to get through the stock at the shop so quickly!"

Edited February 21, 2015 by pauln

[JSpencer]

Out of curiosity, has anyone converted a 4-VEP to DCC sound ? Or am I the only person mad enough to want to do that?

 

I see lots of videos for 4-CEPs , 2-EPBs and MLVs, but no VEPs (or BILs for that matter).

[Andy Y]

And I also see, at Kernow, that it is "temporarily out of stock but 108 (one hundred and eight !!!??) have been ordered from our suppliers". What?? Is it Hornby that has already decided to write these off at cost? So soon after many of us will have paid near to full price?

 

 

 

 

Edit : I've just had the despatch note for the VEP and a BIL from Kernow so they must have had more in stock. Their web site now says "Please note we will have more stock available very shortly when we have collected it from our secure storage - we did not expect to get through the stock at the shop so quickly!"

 

A quick note to endorse that Paul is absolutely correct; the stock is held by Kernow at a separate location (it's only the shop that's out of stock) rather than being on order from Hornby. They still have stock at the time of writing but the rate of sales indicate they are selling quickly.

[Stevelewis]

Out of curiosity, has anyone converted a 4-VEP to DCC sound ? Or am I the only person mad enough to want to do that?

 

I see lots of videos for 4-CEPs , 2-EPBs and MLVs, but no VEPs (or BILs for that matter).

There is  no specific  sound  decoder  for  the  VEP,, but  Howes  do  one  which  is  a  generic  EMU sound  decoder,  Not  sure  what  it  would  sound like in  a  4VEP  but  its  not  bad  in  the  EPBs, 

[luke_stevens]

Out of curiosity, has anyone converted a 4-VEP to DCC sound ? Or am I the only person mad enough to want to do that?

 

I see lots of videos for 4-CEPs , 2-EPBs and MLVs, but no VEPs (or BILs for that matter).

DC Kits have a specific one for the VEP

 

http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/dcc_digital_loco_sounds/diesel_electric_digital_loco_sounds_includes_the_all_new_xl_v4_decoder_/class_423_4vep_southern_region_emu_dcc_dck003_.php

 

Luke

[andyman7]

That's good news. After buying and sending back two terrible runners I swore I'd not get another but at £99 it was just too hard to resist having another try. I'm hoping it will be worth the money.

 

Edit : I've just had the despatch note for the VEP and a BIL from Kernow so they must have had more in stock. Their web site now says "Please note we will have more stock available very shortly when we have collected it from our secure storage - we did not expect to get through the stock at the shop so quickly!"

To be honest, at that price you'll pretty much take it 'as is' and sort it out afterwards.

 

The information that has come to light since suggests that this is not a Hornby deal but something Kernow are doing. It's a bit annoying for us 'in the know' to see such deep discounting so soon after the release and having paid more for ours but dealers are free to sell at whatever price they wish. Judging from the speed at which they are selling at £99 the price is clearly well below the biting point needed to actually shift these. I'm trying to avoid buying stuff on a whim because like quite a few others I actually have more rolling stock than any layout I have can justify but at this price I may also plunge in.... 

[Gwiwer]

Tempting.  Very tempting.  There is a potential for a b/g Vep here having regard to the improvements made albeit an all-blue would have been preferred though no layout exists nor is proposed upon which to run it.  It could however sit alongside the b/g Ceps and even the blue Bils although not accurate with those.  Thinking about it another blue Bil with a different running number is even more tempting and it's pay week coming up .......

Edited February 22, 2015 by Gwiwer

[Purley Oaks]

Tempting.  Very tempting.  There is a potential for a b/g Vep here having regard to the improvements made albeit an all-blue would have been preferred though no layout exists nor is proposed upon which to run it.  It could however sit alongside the b/g Ceps and even the blue Bils although not accurate with those.  Thinking about it another blue Bil with a different running number is even more tempting and it's pay week coming up .......

Rule 1, surely?

Mal

[Gwiwer]

Rule 1 indeed applies.

 

Rule 2 has also been invoked namely Thou Shalt Not Spend More Than Thy Card Limit

[Ian J.]

I'm afraid that without a redesign for the cab face appearance these have stayed off my radar. A shame really. It's not helped by the fact that it appears no-one else produces a cab front that is actually a reasonable facsimilie of the prototype that I could use to replace Hornby's effort.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I would assume that Kernow's motivation in these deals is not to make much of a profit now but to build up their client list.

[royaloak]

Thats the bank account suitably slimmed down!

[brushman47544]

I would assume that Kernow's motivation in these deals is not to make much of a profit now but to build up their client list.

But surely at the offer price Kernow would be making quite a loss against the price they will have paid Hornby. Seems to me much more likely that Hornby has sold these models to Kernow to clear them. The VEPs were made by Sanda Kan so we have really no idea how many were made. Perhaps these are all Hornby has left and they simply want to clear the warehouse once stock of a model gets low; with the new warehousing arrangement it may cost more to hold onto them than sell them quick and cheap.

 

As for the 2-BILs, Hornby may have over ordered these reruns based on initial sales of the first plain green releases and again prefer to shift them rather than pay for warehouse space.

 

What is also interesting is that no other retailer has (so far anyway) these models on offer at the same price. So the numbers available might be small in the overall scheme of things, they just seem large when only one retailer is selling them at the price. It makes me wonder if Kernow has reached some sort of agreement with Hornby - Kernow was one of only a handful of retailers that were selling the supposedly Concessions only R3209 Bucklebury Grange.

[Mike Storey]

But surely at the offer price Kernow would be making quite a loss against the price they will have paid Hornby. Seems to me much more likely that Hornby has sold these models to Kernow to clear them. The VEPs were made by Sanda Kan so we have really no idea how many were made. Perhaps these are all Hornby has left and they simply want to clear the warehouse once stock of a model gets low; with the new warehousing arrangement it may cost more to hold onto them than sell them quick and cheap.

 

As for the 2-BILs, Hornby may have over ordered these reruns based on initial sales of the first plain green releases and again prefer to shift them rather than pay for warehouse space.

 

What is also interesting is that no other retailer has (so far anyway) these models on offer at the same price. So the numbers available might be small in the overall scheme of things, they just seem large when only one retailer is selling them at the price. It makes me wonder if Kernow has reached some sort of agreement with Hornby - Kernow was one of only a handful of retailers that were selling the supposedly Concessions only R3209 Bucklebury Grange.

 

Quite. Despite what Andy Y says, Kernow originally stated "108 awaiting delivery from our suppliers", after they had sold all the stock in hand at £166. "Suppliers" does not suggest to me a separate Kernow warehouse, but a wholesaler or indeed Hornby. Nobody else, bar the Hornby on-line shop, are showing these units as available any more, at any price, and Hornby still show them at full RRP. Utterly, crazily bizarre.

 

I am very grateful that Hornby did make the improvements and did put a Blue/Grey unit through production. But this just smells very badly. How was this meant to test the market? How was this meant to improve Hornby's reputation? How is anyone supposed to understand whether a future 4 car unit would sell profitably? Was it a panic "cash flow" issue or just a very, very poor marketing and sales tactic? I guess we will never know.

[JSpencer]

Kernow are very efficiently set up, so if Hornby did offer a load cheap, it would not surprise me to see Kernow ripping Hornby's arms off.

 

Whether this is Kernow clearing out stock or Hornby doing so, I,ll leave that to speculation, however Hornby's new warehouse agreement has seen them reduce bread and butter accessory items like flocking to clear those too. A silly idea really as people are not going to rush out and grab such a common item that people generally do not need unless they are building a layout!

 

Clearly this warehousing agreement does not work for the bread and butter items, nor for end of line items and those are serious pain points. It might be efficient for new releases but that is it.