Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[Brian Kirby]

I always liked the VEPs, 90mph and you could ride with the door window open (not leaning out though), so plenty of fresh air. I was looking forward to the Hornby plain blue model, i was happy with the price, if it was good, but bit by bit problems have arisen. The first objection was the look of the cab, especially the cab windows and then the gangway inset. O.k., a bit of DIY alteration could cure it.

Next we learn the motor bogie is just a re-heated Class 73 mech, as also used on DMUs (o.k. as long as it's smooth and quiet), but with rubber tyres and not even hidden in the guard's van, so some seats will also be missing, after i've transplanted it. Other people question the undersize roof horns and possibly the air pipes as well.

Then today comes the possible final nail in the coffin as far as i'm concerned, the profile doesn't match the Bachmann 4CEPs or 2EPBs (they should, but it's not even close). Big thanks to the member who posted the VEP+CEP side pics, there's all the evidence i needed. I can't alter and make the Hornby VEP any bigger, so when all is considered, it's no go. I'll have to stick to using Mike Trice sides and ends or Southern Pride kits. Very disappointing.

 

Cheers, no i can't cheer, Brian.

[Pennine MC]

Hi. I do think people are being over critical. If we wait for Hornby or Bachmann to produce a perfect model we will never have anything to run. ... We are supposed to be modellers after all

 

With due respect Roger, I dont think that's a decision that you (or I for that matter) should be making, and it doesnt follow that people expect perfection just because they're being critical. This isnt a model I particularly want but from that detached viewpoint, it's obvious to me that these are not just carping points, it's some considerable way from being perfect.

 

If I *was* interested in a VEP, I'd be grateful for the observations of those who know the units, in order that I could make an informed choice as to whether I could live with the problems or do something to sort them myself. If those people were to withold their knowledge at your behest, they'd be artificially restricting my ability to make that choice, and as a principle, I dont personally think that's a good thing.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Pennine MC

[Xerces Fobe2]

Overall I think the 4VEP looks pretty good. Whilst I can appreciate that some people seek near perfection (guess they must have P4 track as well?) I think most people will agree that the models that are being produced now would have only been dreamed about a few years ago.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Xerces Fobe2

[Brian Kirby]

If i was running a layout that just had 4VEPs and nothing else, there would be no issue, i can turn a blind eye when it's a reasonable compromise. The trouble is, as third rail fans will know, VEPs were coupled to various other cousins, like CIGs/BIGs/CEPs/BEPs/EPBs/HAPs, etc., so the profile has to be uniform or as close as possible. Everyone's human eyes are very good at noticing when things don't line up, like when the wallpaper pattern is not matched or when your tracks are not parallel. If it doesn't bother people, then fine, enjoy yourself.

Can someone measure the depth of the Hornby VEP sides please? The bottom of the side should be nominally 4 feet from the running rail and the sides should be 6'4" from the bottom to the guttering, that's 25mm and a bit (25mm is 6'3"). Bachmann EPB sides are spot on.

 

Cheers, Brian.

[S.A.C Martin]

Overall I think the 4VEP looks pretty good. Whilst I can appreciate that some people seek near perfection (guess they must have P4 track as well?) I think most people will agree that the models that are being produced now would have only been dreamed about a few years ago.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I think a point is being missed here quite significantly, and I am also sensing a lot of hostility this evening to anyone with so much as a whiff of negativity about the model in question, which is unwarranted as all of the points raised are valid.

 

The Hornby 4VEP was a model which was touted as being high spec and comparable in price to the Bachmann CEP (which for RRP is cheaper). The model on closer inspection has an inferior mechanism using traction tyres, several distinct problem areas in shape, look, and has required earlier in this thread some carving up of the front to improve the look further.

 

This isn't a case of wanting perfection - more wanting the quality to match the price and its nearest competitively priced competitor. It then becomes a question of why Hornby have dropped the ball with what is a clearly popular prototype.

 

As I said before, how can Hornby go from the stunning Pullman Observation car, to the 4VEP in this way...? In short it feels like we are being sold a budget model at premium prices. I only have to glance back at the comparison photograph between the Bachmann 4CEP and Hornby 4VEP to know that one looks like its prototype, and assuredly deserves its RRP, whereas the other doesn't in several crucial areas.

 

I am extremely grateful for all the posts showing the prototype and pointing out the shortfalls of this model, because - at a glance on Hattons, it's £120 for the DCC ready model, which appears to need a severe amount of cutting about to get it looking right.

 

The alarm bells started ringing with the traction tyres, frankly, and I've gone from being a definite customer to wondering if I should save my money and build a 4VEP from whatever parts I can get instead. At least with the Replica chassis, I'm assured of traction-tyre free and smooth running...

Edited September 11, 2011 by S.A.C Martin

[Removed a/c]

I guess the best way we can show our disappoint is with our wallets.........by not opening them. I think there will be plenty of people to purchase them and of course those that won't. Not everyone either knows or models prototypically. I am by no means an expert, I enjoy my modelling and collecting trains that to me look cool, where is the harm in that. If I am not bothered by the things that are not right that is my issue, for those that are don't by it. Hornby will get the message loud and clear.

 

I think they may have been trying to achieve a happy medium.

[Pennine MC]

... Whilst I can appreciate that some people seek near perfection (guess they must have P4 track as well?) ...

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I think a point is being missed here quite significantly, and I am also sensing a lot of hostility this evening to anyone with so much as a whiff of negativity about the model in question, which is unwarranted as all of the points raised are valid.

 

 

Aye, and I think the P4 comment is particularly unwarranted, we all know where that one usually goes

Edited September 11, 2011 by Pennine MC

[Bill]

Thank you everyone for all your comments...They are very useful...

Being a southern modeller I was awaiting the 4VEP with eager anticipation...

Just the ticket I thought...

Then I heard about the traction tyres...

(Hornby simply does not seem to get it where traction tyres are concerned - for example I had to buy a schools class but the other four or five I would have purchased weren't because of this continuing TT madness! - if ever a company loves shooting itself in the financial foot then it seems to be this one!)

Things then literally, judging by all the reports, seem to have gone south from there...

I am not sure that Hornby are entirely to blame...

Some Chinese manufacturers just don't get it where "being true to the prototype" is concerned - its a long story but I think it has something to do with differences in their perception and market appreciation..between "toy collector/user" and "serious modeller"; between "Sort of looks like it and goes" and "Spot on and runs well".

There is scope here for Bachmann to make a 4VEP, 4CIG etc or even a decent 73(please) in fact they could probably make a fortune redoing many of Hornby's recent efforts.

Having waited so long for the 4 VEP this is a true disappointment...

I sure hope they get the Brighton Belle spot on but for now I am no longer banking on it and lowering my expectancy accordingly..

[Gwiwer]

For myself, as a person with rather more Vep experience (as a passenger) than might be ideal I was hoping that the standards Hornby had set with earlier models might be approached once more.

 

I don't seek perfection and accept that there will always be compromises and shortcomings in mass-produced RtR models. What I don' accept is the fact that a model offered at an RRP somewhat above that of its close competitor (the Bachmann Cep) is inferior in many ways from the shape and size to the guts which makes it go.

 

Hornby is capable of matching Bachmann standards at comparable prices as they have shown with the class 50 and others. Their Pullmans are famed for quality and accurate detail. So why has the Vep fallen so low on the scale?

 

I had a conversation with Simon Kohler when the early test shots were being shown this time last year and pointed out a few potential concerns then. His response was to silently shrug his shoulders. Perhaps that is the attitude of the company as well. The "Ah well - at least it works" approach. The Hornby range in general does fall somewhere between toy and accurate model and seems to please the former end of that scale more so than the fine modellers but we should expect rather more from a product in this price range. Or we should expect that it might be offered at a compromise price based upon its compromised construction.

 

I don't believe Bachmann or anyone else will manage an alternative RtR Vep so we are stuck with theses or we build kits. My own layout does not accommodate SR electrics within its theme but I still purchase a few as I have a considerable interest in them. I will not however purchase something effectively only for display which I consider has too many flaws for its price and for the same reason do not own any Hornby / Lima class 73 locos which is another type I would like to have.

[NickL2008]

Perhaps if it wasnt so expensive, but the flaws on the model from what I can see can be corrected, the Shoebeams look about 1mm out roughly, the Horns can easily be ripped for turned brass examples, and for those of us brave enough, a cut and shut of the front corridor connections could address the depth issue... to buy one or not though hmmmm

NL

[Xerces Fobe2]

I'm sorry, but I think a point is being missed here quite significantly, and I am also sensing a lot of hostility this evening to anyone with so much as a whiff of negativity about the model in question, which is unwarranted as all of the points raised are valid. - Not hostility a different opinion.

 

The Hornby 4VEP was a model which was touted as being high spec and comparable in price to the Bachmann CEP (which for RRP is cheaper). The model on closer inspection has an inferior mechanism using traction tyres, several distinct problem areas in shape, look, and has required earlier in this thread some carving up of the front to improve the look further. - I would agree that the Bachmann 4CEP is of a superior standard. Yes the 4CEP is cheaper than the Hornby 4VEP - however with high inflation in China over the last year prices have risen significantly and some of the Bachmann 4CEPs have been in the UK for quite a while - Look at the price of a Bachmann 2EPB verses a Bachmann 4CEP!

 

This isn't a case of wanting perfection - more wanting the quality to match the price and it’s nearest competitively priced competitor. It then becomes a question of why Hornby have dropped the ball with what is a clearly popular prototype. Dropped the ball or made some compromises to keep the unit price down?

 

As I said before, how can Hornby go from the stunning Pullman Observation car, to the 4VEP in this way...? In short it feels like we are being sold a budget model at premium prices. I only have to glance back at the comparison photograph between the Bachmann 4CEP and Hornby 4VEP to know that one looks like its prototype, and assuredly deserves its RRP, whereas the other doesn't in several crucial areas. The Hornby Pullman Observation car is listed as costing £44 by Hatton’s and that is a discount price. Now add 3 more coaches without any motor and you are talking £176!

 

I am extremely grateful for all the posts showing the prototype and pointing out the shortfalls of this model, because - at a glance on Hattons, it's £120 for the DCC ready model, which appears to need a severe amount of cutting about to get it looking right. It all depends on what an individual modeller is prepared to accept - I don't think everyone will go for the knives at dawn as soon as they see they get their hands on a 4VEP!

 

The alarm bells started ringing with the traction tyres, frankly, and I've gone from being a definite customer to wondering if I should save my money and build a 4VEP from whatever parts I can get instead. At least with the Replica chassis, I'm assured of traction-tyre free and smooth running... I agree that traction tyres are a disappointment however Bachmann have let the chassis block on a number of their MU's extend into the passenger carrying areas but have no traction tyres !

 

Xerces Fobe

Edited September 12, 2011 by Xerces Fobe2

[brushman47544]

What is a compromise too far? This will be different for each one of us. The model does look like a VEP, even though it does have its faults, so I would hope the model will sell well and not put Hornby off making the investment in other EMUs. I was disappointed to read Gwiwer's comment about Simon Kohler's reaction to comments on early shots of the model, but perhaps simply reflects the internal structures within Hornby for developing and bringing a product to the marketplace. From what we have heard in the Dapol thread in particular, it seems to be very difficult to get Chinese toolmakers to do exactly what you want and suggests that getting the original CADs spot on and then keep on insisting on changes until they get it right is essential. Perhaps Hornby has to compromise sometimes to get a model on sale. What is disappointing is that Hornby seems less willing to upgrade tooling to correct errors, compared for exampel to Bachmann.

 

As for the VEP, for me what spoils the look of the model is the gangway door being inset too far, although interestingly Godfrey Glyn's pencil trick makes a huge improvement by making the corridor connection look smaller. Fortunately for me, I was waiting for a Blue/Grey one before deciding whether to buy. And not being a fan of VEPs (I used to get very annoyed when one turned up vice CIG in my train to work) I'm happy to pass.

 

But on the assumption that most of us could not acheive even this standard by kit building, is it really that bad? Surely not.

[G-BOAF]

Few observations. From experience, it is difficult to mix-and-match models from different manufacturers without things looking a bit odd. Therefore, to expect coach side profiles to match up between Hornby and Bachmann is sadly unreasonable, given that we can assume that neither will be 100% correct, and therefore differences will be compounded by direct comparison. What is needed is to establish which is CORRECT - the VEP or CEP. I did initially cringe at Hornby doing the VEP, knowing it wouldn't exactly match other SR EMUs from of the same era from Bachmann. Ideally one would want a complete fleet from one manufacturer.

What is clear is that Hornby appear to have made a few compromises/errors too many*. I really don't see why it’s difficult to get changes to tools or tool design made; if a subcontractor doesn't delivery to specification, then you get them to do it again until its right. that SHOULD be how business works. It might be difficult, but the ‘customer’ is always right (in this case Hornby, not the Chinese subcontractors) Certainly we might be seeing the costs of sending design work overseas (I actually thought Hornby continued to design in Margate?).

We're constantly going on about how much better models are in recent year (since moving to China), but may I suggest in some regards we may be moving backwards. Is 'detail' actually detail if its in the wrong place or the wrong size? Aside from separate fittings being easier to remove and replace, would we rather have moulded horns the correct size, or separate horns too small? Arguably the Class 466 looks more prototypical (albeit less detailed), than the 15 year on VEP.

I cannot understand the front end. OK, there might have been a difficulty in designing a door that sat proud of the coach body. In that case, why not mould the door into the corridor connection, a separate part already, leaving the actual body end flush and undetailed in this area? Simple solution which would have solved problem. Indeed, Hornby could actually amend this tool to incorporate a revised door stuck over the existing part.

The cab front windows look wrong, again measurements would be good, but something has gone awry for no obvious good reason.

The problem that we now face is that, like the Heljan 86, if its a poor seller, this will deter the range being broadened. In the case of Hornby now, I'm not sure that's a bad idea. I'd rather have a CIG made by Bachmann...!

I was going to order a VEP on the assumption sooner or later it would be produced as Heritage 3417, but won’t unless corrections are made.

*I think its potentially easy to excuse 'errors' as compromises, certain until there have been reasonable explanations given for why a particular approach was taken, for example the missing frame section on the L1 (which is actually easily correctable if desired).

[S.A.C Martin]

It would help Xerces if your quotations were not inside the single quote bracket...

 

 

I'm sorry, but I think a point is being missed here quite significantly, and I am also sensing a lot of hostility this evening to anyone with so much as a whiff of negativity about the model in question, which is unwarranted as all of the points raised are valid.

 

Not hostility a different opinion.

 

I beg to differ. Was the comment relating to P4 track required?

 

The Hornby 4VEP was a model which was touted as being high spec and comparable in price to the Bachmann CEP (which for RRP is cheaper). The model on closer inspection has an inferior mechanism using traction tyres, several distinct problem areas in shape, look, and has required earlier in this thread some carving up of the front to improve the look further.

 

I would agree that the Bachmann 4CEP is of a superior standard. Yes the 4CEP is cheaper than the Hornby 4VEP - however with high inflation in China over the last year prices have risen significantly and some of the Bachmann 4CEPs have been in the UK for quite a while - Look at the price of a Bachmann 2EPB verses a Bachmann 4CEP!

 

A fair point RE the 2EPB, however the quality of that unit is not in doubt. Some might argue it is a further step up from the 4CEP in many ways, commanding a similar price overall.

 

This isn't a case of wanting perfection - more wanting the quality to match the price and it’s nearest competitively priced competitor. It then becomes a question of why Hornby have dropped the ball with what is a clearly popular prototype.

 

Dropped the ball or made some compromises to keep the unit price down?

 

I don't think at an RRP of £168.99 (DCC Ready, not fitted), we can legitimately speculate that this is the case. Again, how with their superior models (4CEP and 2EPB) has Bachmann kept the retail price so much lower than the lower spec Hornby VEP? Is it really value for money? A high retail price for a model whose specification is almost that of the 1980s Intercity 225 sets?

 

As I said before, how can Hornby go from the stunning Pullman Observation car, to the 4VEP in this way...? In short it feels like we are being sold a budget model at premium prices. I only have to glance back at the comparison photograph between the Bachmann 4CEP and Hornby 4VEP to know that one looks like its prototype, and assuredly deserves its RRP, whereas the other doesn't in several crucial areas.

 

The Hornby Pullman Observation car is listed as costing £44 by Hatton’s and that is a discount price. Now add 3 more coaches without any motor and you are talking £176!

 

Yes, but the Pullman observation coach is 1) accurate to its prototype and 2) awash with separately fitted items of various types which perfect the overall image and make it a high quality, desirable item which thoroughly deserves (in my view) its reccomended retail price.

 

I am extremely grateful for all the posts showing the prototype and pointing out the shortfalls of this model, because - at a glance on Hattons, it's £120 for the DCC ready model, which appears to need a severe amount of cutting about to get it looking right.

 

It all depends on what an individual modeller is prepared to accept - I don't think everyone will go for the knives at dawn as soon as they see they get their hands on a 4VEP!

 

Absolutely, but the dismissive nature of some of the responses (yours included) to those with legitimate concerns as to the quality of the model and its accuracy have, frankly, been completely unwarranted.

 

The alarm bells started ringing with the traction tyres, frankly, and I've gone from being a definite customer to wondering if I should save my money and build a 4VEP from whatever parts I can get instead. At least with the Replica chassis, I'm assured of traction-tyre free and smooth running...

 

I agree that traction tyres are a disappointment however Bachmann have let the chassis block on a number of their MU's extend into the passenger carrying areas but have no traction tyres !

 

It is a fact that this is a retrograde step - one which was fairly ridiculous on the recent Schools class loco (by contrast the light nature of the T9 made this a necessity). Here, for a model which is meant to be to a high specification, it is extremely questionable. Each to their own indeed, but there is no doubt that it is factual to say that the traction tyres are both a backwards step and unnecessary in light of Hornby's previous track record.

 

There seems to be a lot of people talking at cross purposes here. It is not a crime to make factual critiques of a model and to equally be disappointed by some of Hornby's design decisions here, as well as seeing that the VEP is commanding a very high price for a model which:

 

1) Uses a class 73 motor bogie with traction tyres

2) Has a vast amount of moulded detail - some have been questioned to their accuracy

3) Has questionable design choices with regards the positioning of the motor bogie

4) Has several questions relating to accuracy in terms of shape in several key areas

5) Has an RRP of £168.99 for a DCC ready model.

 

Taking all of that into account and comparing it to its nearest competitor - the Bachmann 4CEP - it is not wrong to question why it commands such a high price when it is a severely inferior model.

 

I am in two minds on this as it's clear I don't have the skills yet to make up the necessary four units from kits, I budgeted for in the development of my planned end to end layout, but at the same time seeing the fantastic prototype photographs on offer from several members of this forum, comparisons between similar products from a competitively priced counterpart, and looking directly at the RRP and the prices it will be selling for, I can't say that I find the VEP value for money nor the top specification model it has been advertised as.

 

That's up to me to decide if I can live with the differences, most definitely: but I would rather have the whole picture available to me to make an informed decision; and am grateful to those who took the time to give their informed views on the prototype to show the negative aspects of this model in an honest and straightforward manner.

 

It may be put together better than I could do with a kit, but that does not excuse any issues that it does patently have for the price Hornby are expecting it to sell for.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Having given this topic some father thought I found myself trying to find answers to the following questions

 

Where has a manufacture of any model promised 100% accuracy?

Where is it defined that for a price of X give a model which is accurate to Y%?

Is there a recognised and formally agreed way of rating models accuracy?

 

If we could answer the above questions then we could then understand what level of accuracy of a model we would get for a specific price.

My late father had a saying you want champagne for beer money how true this is in railway modelling and being totally honest does anyone expect a model of perfection for @ £140?

 

If I was to propose that we ask Hornby to resolve all the issues raised in the Forum and they came back and said yes however a 4VEP will now cost £500 per unit how many people would purchase a 4VEP at this price?

With Hornby producing a model of a Bridgton Belle EMU next year, which I guess will be somewhere @£200 mark, how many will shun this model and go for the excellent Golden Age Models Brighton Belle which is just under £2K @10 times the price of the Hornby model?

 

A sense of proportion and reality is required as there will be variations from different manufactures. Are the Bachmann 4CIG and 2EPB EMU's totally accurate or is it possible that both Bachmann and Hornby models are built to the same overall dimensions but are manufactured to different ends of the drawing tolerances?

 

Finally I am sure someone will have a photo of a 2EPB and a 4VEP coupled together which look to be of a different height etc. This was not uncommon with variations in the suspension and springing of EMU’s throughout their working lives were common

Xerces Fobe

Edited September 12, 2011 by Xerces Fobe2

[G-BOAF]

p.s. (to my last post) Can someone compare the front window dimensions with those provided by Ceptic in post 267, namely a 1.25in window surround (0.41scale mm), and between body outside surround and body edge of 7.25 and 8.125in

 

Something IS wrong. Stick a scale OHL flash in the gap; I just can’t see one going neatly in there without reasonable space either side which is just not there on the prototype.

 

One possibility is that someone somewhere adopted the dimensions of the glazed area on the prototype for the diemsions of the outside of the window surround on the model. This means that the whole window is too small... maybe. But I’ll let someone with callipers and a VEP investigate further!

[Brian Kirby]

I hope Ceptic doesn't mind, but i've close-coupled his units using Photoshop ! I have since noticed that the models are not necessarily sitting on dead straight track, which may be distorting the depth of the sides. I have not re-sized anything, just moved the VEP image inwards, there has been some improvement. We still need to know the depth of the VEP sides, to be absolutely sure (need to be 25.3mm or as near as possible).

Cheers, Brian.

[Gwiwer]

Brighton Belle EMU next year, which I guess will be somewhere @£200 mark

 

The RRP of a 5-car Brighton Belle set is currently £322.45 or £337.30 DCC-fitted. That gets you the "pack" of two driving cars (one presumably to be a dummy) and three intermediate trailers sold separately. Those prices are of course being discounted by many retailers taking advance orders but at least we can compare apples with apples using the RRP.

[kintbury jon]

Hattons have now updated their page for the 4VEP and have a variety of photos:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/StockDetail.aspx?sid=32159

 

Whilst there are errors, it looks like a VEP (to me) and (assuming they get the NSE stripes in vaguely the right place) will be better than anything I have or could produce myself. I bought a Southern Pride VEP many years ago but was never happy with it (the cabs bothered me for instance!)

 

I could vote with my wallet and not purchase it but I do want a VEP. I have coped with tubby 47's, 33/0's with incorrect roof profiles and so i'm sure I can cope with the issues of the VEP.

 

This doesn't necessarily make it right that these errors have been made though and I would be interested to hear what Hornby's response would be to the comments made in the last few pages of this thread.

[gc4946]

I only have room at home for one 4VEP and am still deciding whether to go for the refurbished version to run alongside my Networker and Wessex Electric.

If Bachmann announces a 4CIG, I'd add a blue/grey version of that to my rail blue era fleet, for consistency in detail and running with my existing 4CEP and 2EPB.

 

One other thing is how well matched is running of two EMUs if the VEP's coupled to a 4CEP/2EPB, which happened in real life. Bachmann uses a heavy diecast chassis with flywheel whereas Hornby's gone for mainly plastic construction, and if my experience of running their motor bogies is true, they'll race off quicker than Bachmann's models.

[Oldddudders]

One other thing is how well matched is running of two EMUs if the VEP's coupled to a 4CEP/2EPB, which happened in real life. Bachmann uses a heavy diecast chassis with flywheel whereas Hornby's gone for mainly plastic construction, and if my experience of running their motor bogies is true, they'll race off quicker than Bachmann's models.

In the prototype, the 2EPB would be pushing/pulling the mainline units on starting, due to its shorter gearing, but then by the time the train reached 40-50 mph, the reverse would start to be true.

 

As far as the model is concerned, I cannot help you with any experience, but can say for certain that any mismatch can more easily be overcome in DCC, where you can customise the settings in each decoder to make running together harmonious.

[steve1023]

My VEP has arrived today & I have to say I'm really pleased with it. Bottom line is despite the flaws mentioned here (all valid) it does capture the look of the VEP. Mine has arrived from Liverpool with a broken grab-rail so will have to source a replacement but other than that - really pleased.

 

The worst part having now got the unit in the flesh is the solid partion for the 1st class section - I'm not even bothered about the length of the gangway connection that I posted about on the page 13 of this thread.

 

One further comment to make regarding the front of the unit is that apart from the already mentioned errors with the gangway connection when I look directly at the front of the unit I see a decent representation and recognisable front end of a 4 VEP and this includes the shape of the cab windows which look spot on for me.

 

I have already considered getting a second unit to make an 8-car but will wait for that & I really would like an early Bournemouth line unit - may have to contact Hornby and pester them for that.

 

Once again really pleased.

 

Steve

[Uk_Steve]

all i know that my Bachmann cep 411 and 2 epb run together very well in DCC

 

i am a complete learner to this hobby, but them two do team up very well

 

 

i am still going for 4VEP in NSE but i will do some weathering to the front and back yellow cab ends because i think it will help alot to the eye,

or if i am still in doubt i get some fine scale paint pens and do some graffiti on the yellow cab ends a bit like how a lot was running at the time to mask the face abit

 

 

i really do hope 4VEP runs as good as mine above, because this will be the 1st train i purchased from Hornby new

 

 

all the best from Steve

Edited September 12, 2011 by Uk_Steve

[davyjcrow]

Just received an email from the Hornby website, the NSE DCC ready version is now in stock with them.. I guess this means in the shops in the next couple of days! DCC fitted versions still show not yet arrived.

[spenc]

hi everybody

having read all the comments good and alot bad today went to my local model shop to have look at there all blue ones did not like it cancelled my nse one. even the guys in the shop said front did not look right went home and ordered a epb in nse