RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2012 Griff, if I thought for even a second the 2012 announcements had any bearing on that, I would cut them some slack. But the partition problem had been known since September. Running problems well versed since October. Bachmann addressed their problem in a matter of days. It took a formal written letter before there was any indication from Hornby that they were thinking about the 4VEP at all. Forgive me fellas for my frustration. No problem... believe me your'e frustration is fully understood I was merely trying to rationalise the situation. Although it's obvious that the situation is far from being anywhere near rational 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 No problem... believe me your'e frustration is fully understood I was merely trying to rationalise the situation. Although it's obvious that the situation is far from being anywhere near rational Griff, I take great offence to that. Those of us with 4VEP problems have been wholly rational, have been extremely patient, and still after five months I feel like the 4VEP and Hornby are giving us the run around. How difficult is an email outlining their plans to those who have bothered to write in to them? Why is this information not freely available in their latest newsletter or on their website? Stop me if I'm asking for the moon chaps. I cannot see why one company are excused basic communication skills, and every other company is not exactly praised for theirs (and they should be. Dapol's handling of the 22 pin problem on the 22 was magnificent, Bachmann had sorted their EPB problem without much prompting by offering replacement bodies). I feel like there's some sort of conspiracy where Hornby are excused poor customer service at the minute. Woe betide anyone who so much as makes a mumur or has a different opinion on this particular model, bam - "not rational". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) I don't have a layout to run third rail electric stock on but the Bachmann 4 CEP and 2 EPB were so nice that I have one of each but the issues with the Hornby VEP has stopped me from buying one and at the moment I out I will be buying the Belle. I wonder how many others ave done the same. However if Hornby improve the 4 VEP and have taken note of the various issues when thy release the Belle then I I'll reconsider my current stance. Ian Edited January 4, 2012 by roundhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2012 The compartment side problem was known about in September 2010. I queried it with Simon Kohler then upon viewing the early test shots. Nothing has been done since to remedy that and I have little confidence that it will be now. I am prepared to be proved wrong but - to borrow from a post above - I suspect we are asking for the moon in trying to extract a response and rectification from Hornby. Which should not be the case and is a shame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 For clarification, I went and found the article in question. It's the second paragraph in after the 67 announcement on Rail Express Modeller: With multiple units generating considerable interest at the moment, there was hope that Hornby might follow up the 4-VEP with an EMU suitable for modellers north of the Thames, or even a first generation DMU type. Sadly there was no such news, however, Simon Kohler admitted the embarrassing mistake with the solid first class compartments on the Class 423 and explained that this tooling would be corrected. Purchasers of the first run will be able to get hold of replacements for their models, while the BR blue/grey-liveried release planned for 2012 would receive this feature as standard. Unfortunately, there are no plans to move the motor bogie inside the brake compartment at the same time. Gwiwer says it's been known since 2010...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Steve, it's almost certainly because when the 4-VEPs were refurbished, a Passenger Saloon was installed in the brake compartment. Hornby probably put the motor in the saloon area, so that they can model the refurbished version, thus increasing the number of variation that can be produced. They could equally well have modelled the refurbished version with a visible motor bogie sitting there in plain sight (which is apparently acceptable). As it stands, they actually made more work for themselves as they require two different interiors for that end of the coach whereas with compromising the area with a motor bogie, you'd just not need to bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Before you start did you have the coaches in the right order for the lights to work. Also when you couple the coaches together you have to be pin point accurate as the contacts as so small the slights miss alignment and the coach lighting will not work and you get crossed head code panels Red on the front and white on the rear. Be there and got the tea shirt for that mistake. Terry Hi Terry for the front and back coaches you know what i dont think i tried to switch them round maybe thats giong to be a laugh factor with Hornby if its that i have a laugh with them he!he! however the other issues was checked closely by myself All the best and thanks for that ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Happy New Year Gang!!! all the best from Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2012 Griff, I take great offence to that. Those of us with 4VEP problems have been wholly rational, have been extremely patient, and still after five months I feel like the 4VEP and Hornby are giving us the run around. How difficult is an email outlining their plans to those who have bothered to write in to them? Why is this information not freely available in their latest newsletter or on their website? Stop me if I'm asking for the moon chaps. I cannot see why one company are excused basic communication skills, and every other company is not exactly praised for theirs (and they should be. Dapol's handling of the 22 pin problem on the 22 was magnificent, Bachmann had sorted their EPB problem without much prompting by offering replacement bodies). I feel like there's some sort of conspiracy where Hornby are excused poor customer service at the minute. Woe betide anyone who so much as makes a mumur or has a different opinion on this particular model, bam - "not rational". You have taken the wrong end of the stick... I was referring to the Hornby end... apologies for the confusion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadyneman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Happy New Year to you and everyone else too. I've kept my VEP on the shelf for a while because i was getting really P**$ed off with it. I gave it a spin the other day and it took off as though nothing had ever been wrong with it. OK somehow the interior lights don't work anymore but it did run fairly well. I have acquired a Bachmann Desiro since buying the VEP which kicks the VEP into touch both in terms of quality and running quality so maybe that has calmed me down a bit. I might consider a blue/grey VEP and cannibalise the existing blue one by using the non tyred wheels in the Blue/Grey one and de motor the all blue one as a "Hauled" unit. Before that happens though, the Brighton Belle will be given a full and thorough testing on my garden layout as and when it arrives. Early indications seem to show that it's looking good although I'm now worried that it will come with the same Cr@ppy badly soldered wired coupling system as the VEP and the blue/grey version will have an incorrect black roof instead of the proper BR Bluey/grey roof of the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium zarniwhoop Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2012 After swearing (volubly!) never to buy anything more from Hornby (except Maunsell BR(S) 6-compartment brake thirds/seconds - if they ever re-release those, and perhaps an Ivatt 2-6-2T to accompany them), I find myself drawn - like a moth to a flame - to the blue-grey VEPs. But now I'm aware of the problems, I no longer see them as a quick fix towards getting enough EMUs. Perhaps by the time they appear I'll have sorted an acceptable means of getting volts throught one of my blue ones, and decided it really was worth the cost and effort. But, RRP £200 ? I'm tempted to use a TLA here, but I'll be banned :-( And as for the blue-grey BEL (which I could perhaps run once a session on headcode 54 if I was modelling 1972) - somehow, I don't think I can justify the track real-estate to store one, not with what I now know about the 'meccano' couplings. For those able to keep your units assembled on the layout (so, NOT people with hopes of exhibiting!) that might not be a problem. ĸen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomstaf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 For clarification, I went and found the article in question. It's the second paragraph in after the 67 announcement on Rail Express Modeller: Gwiwer says it's been known since 2010...!!! If you have not already done so, I think it would probably be beneficial for you to drop Hornby a short email simply requesting how you should obtain the replacement interior parts, and when they will be available. I would suggest allowing several working days for a response too. It is implicit in the article that the tooling will be addressed rather than mass replacements sitting in Hornby's warehouse at present. I am sure it is frustrating not having received a response from your initial correspondence. There is the possibility Hornby did not receive it. I would be interested to see the final text of what you posted. I'm just curios to see what you requested from Hornby. Regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davros909 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 i assume the price hike means the motor will be improved? seen the new price for 160 hmm big hike in my eyes , .in my letter i mentioned to them in a letter that weathering the veps would improve their looks and a new improved motor would restore some faith in Hornby , lets hope they reallly listened to us. the belle is too pricey for me i will stay away and wait for more slammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you have not already done so, I think it would probably be beneficial for you to drop Hornby a short email simply requesting how you should obtain the replacement interior parts, and when they will be available. I would suggest allowing several working days for a response too. It is implicit in the article that the tooling will be addressed rather than mass replacements sitting in Hornby's warehouse at present. I am sure it is frustrating not having received a response from your initial correspondence. There is the possibility Hornby did not receive it. I would be interested to see the final text of what you posted. I'm just curios to see what you requested from Hornby. Regards Tom S A C Martin's letter can be found earlier in the thread - around page 30 something I believe. I wrote direct to Simon Kohler by letter / email and had several exchanges of email within a reasonable timescale. My concerns (see also earlier in the thread) were about the noise generated by the motor and the poor traction and I certainly had the feeling that Mr Kohler was keen to resolve this problem for me. Whether this results in a permanent change to future production is down to Hornby. In my case it feels like I had some of a batch of dud motors which explains the noise - my replacement does not have this issue - and a swap round of the traction tyres, a new DCC chip and some changes to CVs (all of which Hornby did for me) have resulted in a 4 VEP which is much closer to a Bachmann CEP in performance. So, personally I can't fault Hornby's response about the mechanical problem but personally also I didn't have any concern about the bodywork issues others have commented on. I do wonder, though, how many people actually contacted Hornby direct rather than just post comments on forums. In this thread I'd estimate only 4 or 5 people have mentioned writing direct. I don't know what the production run is but I would guess this is only a tiny percentage and I can see why Hornby might be reluctant to take this as evidence of a major issue. If it is true that retailers are sitting on large stocks that might also be an indicator - but whether this because of the model's design, market saturation, price or a number of other reasons Hornby will have to judge. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) You have taken the wrong end of the stick... I was referring to the Hornby end... apologies for the confusion. No Griff, you have my apologies for misunderstanding you. I guess over the last few months I've been conditioned into thinking the world's against me with the 4VEP!!! I just want to point out I did have a response from Simon Kohler, but would also ask how difficult is it to keep your customers in the know when you have plans such as these? Certainly there should be a notice on the website. Is there one? I haven't found anything as yet. I sincerely hope next year's blue/grey 4VEP has its running issues fixed, by way of a redesign of the bogies (including the traction tyre nonsense), otherwise I will stay clear of the 4VEP in the future altogether. Which is a shame, as I think it would have been an acceptable model for modifications had it been a decent runner, aesthetic problems aside. But the Bachmann Desiro - words fail me at its RRP and what you get for it. There is a model which takes the standard of the 4CEP and beats it with a stick. Unbelievably good model that. It's a shame Hornby couldn't do the same with the 4VEP, however the Brighton Belle may yet prove to be a worthy model in its own right. For the life of me, I don't understand why it's not being offered as an all in one like the Blue Pullman is, although I accept having the components available separately will be of benefit to modellers. Edited January 5, 2012 by S.A.C Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2012 the Brighton Belle ..... I don't understand why it's not being offered as an all in one like the Blue Pullman is, At a commercial level I can understand the logic. It allows a great many potential purchasers to indulge to the limit of their pocket and / or layout (either or both of which might only be able to accommodate a 2, 3, or 4-Bel) and therefore maximises sales potential compared with Bachmann's strategy with numerous multiple units of only offering the entire set. That potentially prices it out of the market for some hopeful customers and for those who cannot accommodate longer trains. The 5-car class 221 for example takes up a fair bit of layout space (more than a 5-Bel) but is not available as a shorter option. Such decisions are made at the design stage and also allow Bachmann to incorporate a heavy central power car but restrict the choice open to Hornby when they offer a 2-car "pack" of motor and dummy. That said the Hornby HST packs run supremely well and as with the Belle there is the option to purchase as few or as many trailers as might be required rather than being obliged to stump up for a full 2+8 HST. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 A very fair point Gwiwer, well made. I had not considered the HST pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I do wonder, though, how many people actually contacted Hornby direct rather than just post comments on forums. In this thread I'd estimate only 4 or 5 people have mentioned writing direct. I don't know what the production run is but I would guess this is only a tiny percentage and I can see why Hornby might be reluctant to take this as evidence of a major issue. If it is true that retailers are sitting on large stocks that might also be an indicator - but whether this because of the model's design, market saturation, price or a number of other reasons Hornby will have to judge. I am off back to Margate today That was a quick turn around and fair play to them later today i will 100% update forum about the train All the best from Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hi Gang i am back with my report after coming back from Hornby NSE 4 VEP is a happy train indeed its running like a dream all lights are working all corners are ok the train runs at a level speed not slowing down on corners they replaced the boogie frame and wheels which was the running issues in my case i done a little video to show it works on low speeds and my normal speeds, i do another video tomozz with better light conditions during the day i can only go by my case,but i just urge anybody with any issues just telephone them "thay are helpful" they been good as gold to me they even gave me a free dcc chip because the lights issues was actually a faulty Bachmann dcc chip which is nothing to do with them hence why i am so grateful to them that was a lovely gesture All the best from Steve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted January 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just saw your video, what changes did they do with the wheels? Did they fit the wheels on the motor bogie so that both rubber tyres are on one side, or diagonally opposite each other? (PS haven't done any weathering yet on my version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 A very fair point Gwiwer, well made. I had not considered the HST pair. In addition to this it also allows a spreading out of purchases. For example I already have several Pullman coaches which I will run with the power cars until funds allow me to purchase some of the correct coaches. I would imagine others will do the same or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Just saw your video, what changes did they do with the wheels? Did they fit the wheels on the motor bogie so that both rubber tyres are on one side, or diagonally opposite each other? (PS haven't done any weathering yet on my version) Hi i have a look tomorrow for you gc4946 so i can help with your question i am intrigued now myself i didnt even look today i was more intrested to see it working round my track yeah i am looking forward to doing the weathering in due course no graffiti mind all the best from Steve Edited January 5, 2012 by Uk_Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Not sure the corridor connections should be quite so brightly illuminated (only the headcode panels should be lit!). You may want to paint the end doors black then do a fresh coat of yellow (or paint the inside black if you can get at it!) Edited January 6, 2012 by RJS1977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Just saw your video, what changes did they do with the wheels? Did they fit the wheels on the motor bogie so that both rubber tyres are on one side, or diagonally opposite each other? (PS haven't done any weathering yet on my version) Hi again here is the pic of the traction tyres on the motor coach front end boogie on the motor coach has traction tyres this way round none are on the back boogie on the motor coach also maybe im stating the obvious there is no traction tyres on any other coaches on the 4 piece set just gave it another spin and also the Bachmann 2epb on the other track all is well im glad to say All the best from Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Interesting because on mine (as shown previously in this thread) the model as purchased had the traction tyres on the same axle. Thank you Steve for your continued updates, I am glad that the problems in your model appear to have been resolved satisfactorily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now