Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[Uk_Steve]

Today i went to the Hobby Shop in Faversham Kent

 

1st time i been there its lovely location and lucky for me i could park near the shop after trying to work out how to get there because of my Sat Nav wanted me to park elsewhere he!he!

the shop was fully stocked and while i was there i did ask if they had a NSE 4VEP

and they had 1 in stock so here we go 2nd time lucky for Steve, Harvey gave it a quick check

on its single carriage track tester all is well i did stress i had a duff 1 b4 elsewhere but i like these so much i really

wanted to give it another go, he was very open and honest he did say there has been a couple of issues on the all Blue version but to date NSE been ok "so i am now hoping i can be in the NSE Ok Club"

 

i be opening the box on Sunday and do a test on my layout then,also gives me time to read the board again on any tips if needed to get this running. because there been a few diffirent tales on the way since these was first launched

 

come on make my christmas Hornby with this 4VEP

 

 

Speak soon

Edited December 16, 2011 by Uk_Steve

[Venator]

Steve,

 

I consider myself to be in the "NSE OK" Club in terms of the 4VEP. I have spoken to several other NSE VEP owners and they have similar experiences to mine.

 

I'm thinking of purchasing another and getting it renumbered as I have had no problems with it. (I can then run 12 coach NSE EMU formations!)

 

Venator

Edited December 16, 2011 by Venator

[pauln]

 

i be opening the box on Sunday and do a test on my layout then,also gives me time to read the board again on any tips if needed to get this running. because there been a few diffirent tales on the way since these was first launched

 

come on make my christmas Hornby with this 4VEP

 

 

Speak soon

 

As I posted earlier the test model I got direct from Hornby runs much better than my previous ones. No horrible grinding noises and pulls ok on curves. I had to fiddle with some of the CVs to get it smoother running at low speed and I still have some work to do on this when I get Decoder Pro plugged in again.

 

I really hope your new one is better than the old one.

[metadyneman]

Unless Hornby recognise the many faults with this model and do something about it, then I'm sorry but I won't be buying another one!

[Gwiwer]

Unless Hornby recognise the many faults with this model and do something about it, then I'm sorry but I won't be buying another one!

And unless Hornby lift their game to a level where we can rely on good quality instead of taking each release on a hit-or-miss basis then I am afraid I intend to steer clear of the brand as a whole. Despite a respectable number of "hits" (not least the "King Arthurs" and class 50s) there are too many misses coming through Margate for my liking. If Hornby wish to concentrate on the cheaper end of the market ("Toy train" is a term which has been used but possibly misquoted) then please don't expect too much business from the serious modeller.

 

Which with releases like the Brighton Belle coming up is a great shame as that could be and perhaps will be a top model but how can we have any confidence in that in advance?

[iL Dottore]

If Hornby wish to concentrate on the cheaper end of the market ("Toy train" is a term which has been used but possibly misquoted) then please don't expect too much business from the serious modeller

Unlike some other manufacturers, Hornby PLC has a huge portfolio of model and toy products and I wonder just how high is the percentage of Hornby PLC's income is generated by "serious modellers". Probably not as high as we'd like to think. RMWeb's dense grouping of "serious" modellers I don't think is representative of the market as a whole. Given that Hornby has been quite successful as a company, we must assume that for the most part the majority of customers are satisfied with the majority of the products.

 

I see a few areas where Hornby can upgrade itself: quality control (I've had a duff loco from Hornby and received excellent after sales service, but wouldn't it be better to avoid this upfront?), clear branding (many models in their "standard" range would be better placed in a range between the railroad models and top of the line models) and possibly general overall communication (although Simon Kohler is absolutely superb in addressing problems on a one-to-one basis)

 

F

Edited December 17, 2011 by iL Dottore

[Ian Hargrave]

Agreed with all of the above postings. However,please do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Despite the 4-VEP debacle--and others--they are more than capable of producing excellence still. Their new B1,I believe,proves the point. One turkey doesn't ruin Christmas.

[steve1023]

I also agree with several of the above posts. After my 4VEP issues my confidence in Hornby took a hit and I was very disappointed, however 2 or so months later I am tempted to re-try the VEP and have thought about re-purchasing a blue one to try my luck but I am very cautious.

 

I have been happy with all my other Hornby stuff - slightly tempted by the B1 - handsome looking model with some gresley stock for it to haul.

 

Steve

[Oakydoke]

Unlike some other manufacturers, Hornby PLC has a huge portfolio of model and toy products and I wonder just how high is the percentage of Hornby PLC's income is generated by "serious modellers". Probably not as high as we'd like to think.

Until they started aquiring other toy & model brands, in 2007 Hornby said that around 70% of their sales of model trains (the British outline Hornby stuff) was bought by adult modellers and collectors and 30% to the childrens toy market.

[Uk_Steve]

Hi gang

 

here i am with my 2nd time lucky "Hornby NSE 4 VEP"

 

i have done a video because its better to see footage then words i think

 

link is below

 

 

 

 

 

All in all totally diffrent experience then my 1st NSE 4 VEP

 

 

Good Highlights

 

it goes round the track 1 way "big step forward against my last Hornby NSE 4Vep train!!!"

 

 

 

----------------------------

 

Unsatisfactory Highlights

 

1. Internal lights not working

 

2. headcode lights are the wrong way round ie red is forward and yellow/orange is back

 

3.where the video was taken train will only go clockwise on the track but not anticlock wise it de rails at various locations

all my other trains will go eachway so its 100% the 4 VEP issue "at this stage"

just to highlight my other trains are as follows

 

x2 NSE 2epb Bachmann / LTD

x1 B & G 2epb Bachmann

x2 B & G Class 416 Bachmann

x1 Blue Class 416 Bachmann/Modelzone

x2 Class 50s Hornby

 

4. struggles round corner curves on low speeds, you may can see in the video it slows down dramaticly

where all my other trains have no issues at any speed levels its also noticable on high speeds also but not

as much

 

5. very noisy train between all my other trains

 

 

 

 

i like to think i am fair person and the last 2 issues i will be happy to accept however the 1st 3 issues i would like a resolution if any board members can help let me know please

because i am hoping i can get this sorted via here maybe sorting out the 4th issue would be brilliant

 

 

Kind Regards From Steve

Edited December 18, 2011 by Uk_Steve

[Ron Ron Ron]

........I like to think i am fair person and the last 2 issues i will be happy to accept however the 1st 3 issues i would like a resolution if any board members can help let me know please

because i am hoping i can get this sorted via here maybe sorting out the 4th issue would be brilliant....

Steve, at the price you shouldn't have to accept any of those issues. A Dog is a Dog, whichever way you look at it.

 

Whilst in the real world, I'd expect the odd manufacturing or build quality issue to appear from time to time (not that we should just simple accept them though), there's no getting away from the fact this model is not of merchantable quality, either in looks or in its ability to run properly.

Those excusing Hornby on this, completely baffle me.

 

.

[S.A.C Martin]

I see that video, look at my own - currently on the shelf, awaiting finishing in some areas, and then I go back through this thread, and see some of the "manufacturer bashing" comments elsewhere - and I wonder if my grip on reality is loosening.

 

No, these design issues are not acceptable and they are factually correct. They are there, present, in every model 4VEP produced because that's how they've been designed.

 

On a separate note, I finally have some time at the end of the work to do some CADwork and will be following up on my promise to "have a go" at making a new 3D printed end for my 4VEP. We shall see what we shall, but the plethora of drawings and prototype photographs made available to me here in this thread, and via PM, is phenomenal. Thanks chaps for all of your thoughts, advice and posts this year. Have a good Christmas, and hopefully the 4VEP models we have can be turned into something we each can be satisfied with.

[Legend]

I would send Simon Kohler a letter (better email but would it get through) with links to your youtube video and this thread. Its about time he acknowledged the generic issues affecting this model than palming off individual problems.

 

As to tweaking your model, well thats up to you. I understand that people so want this model that they will put up with its inadaquacies, but then maybe thats what SK or Hornby are relying on! I'd send it back and get you money back

 

Bruce

[S.A.C Martin]

I think he means for Steve to send his own letters Chard, though I appreciate what you are saying.

[Legend]

Indeed I was specifically referring to Steves issues. I know SAC has already done his bit on trying to bring the inadaquacies of this model to Hornby and the model railway editors, from which there's also silence. As Ron Ron Ron states a dog is a dog, but its a shame the model railway mags and Hornby don't seem to acknowlege that.

[Uk_Steve]

I would send Simon Kohler a letter (better email but would it get through) with links to your youtube video and this thread. Its about time he acknowledged the generic issues affecting this model than palming off individual problems.

 

As to tweaking your model, well thats up to you. I understand that people so want this model that they will put up with its inadaquacies, but then maybe thats what SK or Hornby are relying on! I'd send it back and get you money back

 

Bruce

 

 

Yeah thats a good idea i contact Hornby directly and see what can be done, im sure their team will get this

up to spec pretty quickly hopefully

 

all the best from Steve

Edited December 19, 2011 by Uk_Steve

[Ian Hargrave]

Indeed I was specifically referring to Steves issues. I know SAC has already done his bit on trying to bring the inadaquacies of this model to Hornby and the model railway editors, from which there's also silence. As Ron Ron Ron states a dog is a dog, but its a shame the model railway mags and Hornby don't seem to acknowlege that.

Your most appropriate observation is'model railway mags'. Their silence on the issue is deafening. Any one care to start a list headed REASONS WHY ??

[S.A.C Martin]

I can only speak for myself that I was disappointed to not receive replies from either of the two aforementioned magazines (including one I buy religiously), particularly as the letters were sent, 1st class recorded delivery and will have arrived at their destinations by now...!

 

However that's part and parcel of the letter writing game, sometimes you get a response, others you don't. C'est la vie.

[Ceptic]

Many thanks Uk_Steve, for taking the trouble & time out, to film & post that footage.

 

As you point out, that VEP's performance is still a little bit?, as they say nowadays, flakey / shakey ?, especially when entering the straght from the curve (this reminds me of the days of Tri-ang).

Your video certainly shows the difference in performance, especially slow running, between Bachmann's 2-EPB, and your 2 car VEP.

As people have commented on previously, l'm also sure that a Bachmann 4-CEP would have out shone. even with 4 cars

As an aside, have you tried running it through a reverse cross-over, or up an incline ?...

l have,.. hence my reluctance to buy, or recommend this model, or any further Hornby release of this version

 

l could go on whinging, but l'm getting a little fed up / tired with complaining on this open forum, and, especially, to the manufacturer, without getting a satisfactory answer from the main man, namely Hornby.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Ceptic

[metadyneman]

I appreciate the problems that some of us have had with our VEPs and some on this forum have taken unilateral action by contacting Hornby about their individual problems. I'm just wondering if it is now time for us all to actually combine together and send a collective letter/e-mail to Hornby which might have a bit more clout to say that this model needs to be re worked, re drawn and re released as a quality model and not the half baked biscuit we have been presented with!

[Uk_Steve]

Many thanks Uk_Steve, for taking the trouble & time out, to film & post that footage.

 

As you point out, that VEP's performance is still a little bit?, as they say nowadays, flakey / shakey ?, especially when entering the straght from the curve (this reminds me of the days of Tri-ang).

Your video certainly shows the difference in performance, especially slow running, between Bachmann's 2-EPB, and your 2 car VEP.

As people have commented on previously, l'm also sure that a Bachmann 4-CEP would have out shone. even with 4 cars

As an aside, have you tried running it through a reverse cross-over, or up an incline ?...

l have,.. hence my reluctance to buy, or recommend this model, or any further Hornby release of this version

 

l could go on whinging, but l'm getting a little fed up / tired with complaining on this open forum, and, especially, to the manufacturer, without getting a satisfactory answer from the main man, namely Hornby.

 

 

No problem footage speaks louder then words

 

Ok i did what i said i would do i telephoned them this morning

 

so on that note i be driving to Hornby today with the train to leave with them

they are eager to sort out the above issues in due course

which i am very grateful and will update the progress in due course once i have the train returned or

i pick it up

 

Kind Regards From Steve

[tetsudofan]

Steve,

 

Good to hear that you've got things moving. Look forward to hearing how things go........

 

Am off to Faversham tomorrow morning.....Harvey says he has some boxes for me!!

 

Keith

[tomstaf]

Time for some rebranding on the NSE Hornby VEP. Has anyone got any close-up shots of the markings next to the cable recesses on the front of the VEPs? I need the 'Class 423' and 'WD' depot markings please. Also any close-up shots of the 'South West Trains' wording on the NSE liveried VEPs would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

Edited December 19, 2011 by tomstaf

[zarniwhoop]

Hi gang

 

here i am with my 2nd time lucky "Hornby NSE 4 VEP"

 

i have done a video because its better to see footage then words i think

 

link is below

 

 

 

[...]

 

 

Unsatisfactory Highlights

 

1. Internal lights not working

 

2. headcode lights are the wrong way round ie red is forward and yellow/orange is back

 

3.where the video was taken train will only go clockwise on the track but not anticlock wise it de rails at various locations

all my other trains will go eachway so its 100% the 4 VEP issue "at this stage"

 

4. struggles round corner curves on low speeds, you may can see in the video it slows down dramaticly

where all my other trains have no issues at any speed levels its also noticable on high speeds also but not

as much

 

5. very noisy train between all my other trains

 

 

Steve - first, thanks for posting a youtube link that works for me (I avoid flash like the plague it is and only use html5 - many links here don't work for me).

 

For the internal lights - no suggestions. If they don't work in the MBSO it's probably a manufacturing fault (i.e. miswired). If they work there but not in the trailers, the execrable couplings are no longer making electrical contract (like on my own DTCs). But, you say the headcodes are working (wrongly), so it sounds like a fault in the wiring.

 

For the mislit headcodes - I suggest you connected the wrong DTCs at each end - see my comment at the beginning of the thread where I think I cast aspersions on one of the reviews. The DTCs are NOT identical.

 

I don't know what radius your track is, but it appears not a million miles away from mine which is 18" radius. The first problem, particularly when the MBSO is pushing two trailers, is that the NEM sockets on the outer ends of the DTCs don't rotate easily - on a gentle curve, that probably doesn't matter, but for the rest of us they run better without the NEM socket.

 

After that, the problem (both the need for high throttle settings, and the noise) is the resistance from the internal "bearings" (I use the phrase loosely - a metal axle in a plastic hole barely counts as a bearing) on the trailer bogies. So far, I've only changed the "far" DTC bogies, but that made an enormous difference. The search facility doesn't want to find my blog, so try http://www.rmweb.co....rniwhoops-blog/ - I'm still planning to do the other trailers, but the next coach (the other DTC) hasn't made it back into the paintshop yet for a different grey on the roof (my first attempt turned out to be too pale).

 

Alternatively, maybe your motorcoach needs a bit more running-in.

 

As I've said before (and to Mr Kohler, who perhaps though it was a strange comparison) - given the choice between building an MJT VEP and this, I'll take the Hornby.

 

But making it work adequately is a time-consuming (and probably expensive) business. Somehow, I don't see myself purchasing other Hornby products such as the blue-grey BEL I was frothing about at the start of the year (for starters, they've made me concentrate on 1970-1 with this VEP and the 5-BEL special trips didn't happen until 1972 - if they later produce blue-grey VEPs would I buy them ? I don't know, but my gut instinct is not to after the aggravation with the blue ones.

 

ĸen

[tetsudofan]

My sympathies at the moment lie with the retailers - I was surprised to find out from my retailer the number of unsold VEPs he has and, when you bear in mind the amount of shop capital tied up in these units, I think it must be worrying for him.

 

Having returned my two VEPs and obtained refunds, based on what I've experienced and what others have experienced it is patently obvious that the 4-VEPs are not fit for purpose.

 

Hornby should, in my opinion, come clean, admit they have a non-runner and arrange a recall of all the models and start again from scratch to show what they can do - as exemplified by the Gresley suburbans, especially those in LNER livery, which are just fantastic.

 

Keith