Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[pauln]

The model press can only speak as they find. We had no problems with the running of our sample VEP. To launch into print based on anything other than one's own experience can potentially be a very expensive business. Apart from the prospect of replacement interior partitions, we have not been advised of any other changes.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

Chris,

 

I did send Ben some videos which I took of my defective units and he did discuss this with Simon Kolher. Now, as per earlier posts, I can't fault Mr Kohler's efforts to check the poor running on my models and to send me one which had the traction tyres swapped and some adjustments to the DCC chip CVs which largely resolved my running issues. What none of us know is how widespread the running problems were - somewhere between "only a small number of people on a web forum found the issue" and "quite a lot of customers returned their models" and this could certainly have been explored a bit by the model rail press with the manufacturer.

[SRman]

That's an outrageous comment!

 

Hi John.

 

I have been warned by another supplier that the postage rates are to change (probably for the worse) in the very near future in the UK and the 4VEP is a rather bulky item. The comment wasn't intended as a slight on you or your business but, living overseas as I do, I have been caught out before with suppliers charging higher than usual/expected postage on what would otherwise have been bargains.

 

SO, I give no apology for the comment but I do apologise to you if it sounded like it was aimed at you ... it was not!

Edited April 5, 2012 by SRman

[Gwiwer]

Fair comment Jeff. 4 coaches boxed is a rather bulky item and with shipping charged by a combination of weight, volume, mode of transit and destination things can suddenly get far more expensive than anticipated. A box of yard-length track is another example where, because of its length, the shipping suddenly becomes astronomical in relation to the weight and value of the item.

[Uk_Steve]

there is no secret the cost of postage from royal mail is going up heavy

 

 

if anybody has missed this information recently?

 

From 30th April 2012 a 46p stamp is going up to 60p

 

is around 30% rise "Ouch!!"

 

 

the knock on affect is clear its going to hit all business which rely on them to

ship goods

 

all the best from Steve

[Mod6]

I have been warned by another supplier that the postage rates are to change (probably for the worse) in the very near future in the UK and the 4VEP is a rather bulky item. The comment wasn't intended as a slight on you or your business but, living overseas as I do, I have been caught out before with suppliers charging higher than usual/expected postage on what would otherwise have been bargains.

 

SO, I give no apology for the comment but I do apologise to you if it sounded like it was aimed at you ... it was not!

 

Thanks for the clarification, but the original post did give the clear impression of a direct criticism of Bromsgrove. A reminder to all to review such posts from the point of view of others before hitting the 'send' button.

[SRman]

A fair point. I really intended it as a general warning re postal costs specifically for the VEP and other train packs and with overseas modellers firmly in mind so, once again, apologies to John for my poor construction of that paragraph and post. Bromsgrove Models has a very good reputation and has received very positive feedback in the thread with their name.

 

Typing on a tablet computer is a bit of a pain so I'll claim laziness as my excuse - much easier when I'm on my other computers with proper keyboards where I tend to be a bit more verbose!

[miles73128]

So does anybody know what the modification actually is?

[John M Upton]

The problem is until someone actually buys one we will probably never know, for many existing (and former) Hornby VEP owners it is very much a case of once bitten, twice shy. For example I would love to add a couple more VEP's to my fleet (including the alledgely forthcoming blue/grey ones) but I am just not prepared to take the risk until I see concrete evidence of serious improvements.

[SRman]

I bought one on special at a good price. It exhibits quite a few of the undesirable characteristics described in this thread earlier, in spite of having a sticky label saying it has been modified.

 

Both traction tyres are fitted to the rear axle of the motor bogie. The motor was very 'chattery' at low speed on DC and after fitting decoders - firstly I tried a TCS DP2X-UK which I suspect may have a fault as it tended to leap after stopping (not just in the VEP) but still chattered and growled at low speeds; next I tried a mystery 21-pin decoder with 8-pin adaptor and that also growled and chattered - I later identified it as my "missing" Hornby Sapphire decoder; then I substituted a 'cheapie' Bachmann 21-pin decoder which has, surprisingly, mostly eliminated the growl and chatter, although it hums a bit instead. At least it runs nice and smoothly now.

 

So far, to get the best out of it, I have set CV2 to 1, CVs 3 & 4 to 55 and 35, and CV5 (Max speed) to 25. These may yet be fine-tuned but generally these settings are working quite nicely.

Edited April 18, 2012 by SRman

[S.A.C Martin]

SRman, thank you for that appraisal. Can you advise us if there has been a change of design to the bogies, compared to their "clip in" axle type bogies which are fitted to all of the first batches?

[kintbury jon]

Are there any NSE ones on 'special offer'?

[Ceptic]

So does anybody know what the modification actually is?

 

A Blue 'n Grey paint job ??

[Stevelewis]

I have mentioned this on the 5 BEL thread but to date no response:

 

Has any one with both a 4 VEP and a 5 BEL had the opportunity to compare the motor bogies?

 

I have made some comments on the BEL thread, re the motor bogie, but I no lnger have a 4 VEP with which to compare it.

[frobisher]

I'd have thought the motor bogies would have been pretty much the same (though the Belle dispenses with traction tyres..?). The difference really comes down to the solid chunk of metal weighting down the Belle's motor bogie. Something they could have done for the 4VEP if they'd stuck it at the guard's end of the MBSO rather than on full display...

[Stevelewis]

I'd have thought the motor bogies would have been pretty much the same (though the Belle dispenses with traction tyres..?). The difference really comes down to the solid chunk of metal weighting down the Belle's motor bogie. Something they could have done for the 4VEP if they'd stuck it at the guard's end of the MBSO rather than on full display...

 

I fully agree re the position of the VEP power unit.....

 

I have been fitting a decoder in a Bachmann 2 EPB today so I had another chance to do a comparison between the power unit of that with that of the BEL, I know which one I would put my money on

[steve1023]

Hey Guys - Since the thread has been unlocked I thought I would add my own recent experiences with my 2nd VEP. Having sent the original one back to Liverpool in October with its faults and obtaining a refund I have still been wanting a VEP so it was in January when Gaugemaster were selling them at a sale price of £120 (same price as Hattons) I asked the salesman about any issues on the VEP to be told they had had no issues at all.

 

So I took the plunge and made a purchase - got home and took my 2nd blue VEP out of its box and put it on the track and watched my new VEP trundle along quite happily - I was over the moon - a working VEP........then it reached the first curve and promptly de-railed, and then it de-railed on every curve after that too.

 

Pack up said VEP to be returned to Gaugemaster, except on the day I was intending to go to Gaugemaster work sent me on a couple of deliveries in Margate - one on the same estate as Hornby, so I left my VEP with them to see if they could sort it out & they did. It was returned a week later and it does now run as you would expect it too - no stuttering or slowing down on curves and no derailments.

 

The attached work note said the bogies were adjusted and springs replaced - can't tell you any more than that other than it works.

 

Incidently regarding the price I notice that Hattons have increased the price they are selling the VEPs at from £120 to £139. I had been keeping an eye on getting a 2nd unit to use as a donor for making a 4TC.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[SRman]

SRman, thank you for that appraisal. Can you advise us if there has been a change of design to the bogies, compared to their "clip in" axle type bogies which are fitted to all of the first batches?

 

Hi Simon. I haven't actually looked at the axles but next time I invert one of the coaches I'll make a point of checking that.

 

At least it didn't derail on my tightest curves (actually approximately third radius), although the motor bogie did derail once over a trailing point - I'll put that down to a rogue event as it has not repeated the performance. It also doesn't hit any of my third and fourth rail sections, which is good news for me and my track laying skills!

 

I forgot to mention earlier that I cut off the capacitor on the side of the motor bogie before trying out all those decoders.

Edited April 20, 2012 by SRman

[Western Scottish]

Good that Steve got his VEP sorted out at Margate. But there's a few things from his posting that worries me

 

1. Bad VEPs are still out there. How can you identify modified ones from original batch

2. Steve's defective model was fixed by Hornby which means they must know the issues and how to correct them. Wouldn't it be a good idea to pass this on to those of us who can't get to Margate- but all we get is silence. No acknowledgement there even is an issue!

 

Given that Model Rail has now run an article on improving a VEP you would have thought they might have asked Hornby about the defects( I appreciate that they did not find any defects in the model they tested- but we also know they are aware of this thread which details the issues). It would have been very helpful to their readers if they could have passed details of the mods.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Western Scottish

[Pennine MC]

It's an interesting conundrum isnt it, balancing the number of cautious folk who might be depriving themselves of a decent model against the number of blissfully ignorant ones who will end up with a pup.

[ThaneofFife]

Granted it will certainly have an impact on the ease of sales for hand me down models where confusion may arise over what model you have or if they are dealing with a seller who doesnt know what they have.

[Uk_Steve]

@ Steve1023

 

i had a simular experience as you

 

 

i will not repeat it because its all here to see

 

 

seems to me anybody which gets the trains back to Margate they

return like little angels

 

all i can say if anybody has a none runner get it off to Margate because im sure

Hornby regardless of box etc will just do the business and get it running as a goodwill gesture

 

lets face it there is a problem because between me and you and this board

there is a fact of none runners and runners on this model

 

soon as the price comes down again on the NSE VEP i will get another so

i can destroy it with paint pens

i could say

"LOOK AT THAT TRAIN GO!!!" Or "BACK TO THE TRAIN YARD TO GET FIXED"

Edited April 30, 2012 by Uk_Steve

[dibber25]

 

Given that Model Rail has now run an article on improving a VEP you would have thought they might have asked Hornby about the defects( I appreciate that they did not find any defects in the model they tested- but we also know they are aware of this thread which details the issues). It would have been very helpful to their readers if they could have passed details of the mods.

 

Model Rail ran an article contributed by a reader. We have not carried out any modifications ourselves, nor do we have information about modifications carried out by Hornby. We don't have anything which we could have passed on.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Trevellan]

Surely you owe it to your readers to investigate why the 4-Vep has received so much negative feedback. (I would say negative press but sadly the model railway press is unwilling to fight its readers' corner.)

 

I think these comments are rather unfair. I've been buying model railway magazines since 1967 and have read every title at one time or another. The very nature of our hobby means that a "Which" type of approach would not be appropriate and I cannot ever recall any model railway magazine taking a campaigning stance on a product. Editorial staff at all of the mainstream magazines require the cooperation and support of manufacturers and retailers, so adopting an adverserial "Watchdog" attitude is not going to help their cause, let alone ours as consumers. I would also point out that Model Rail reviews do list what they regard as negative aspects of a product, as well as the positive. I am not acting as an apologist for the model railway press here, but I do feel some balance is in order.

 

As someone who has worked in PR roles I do think that Hornby have, to some extent, fallen down on the VEP issue, but that is their choice as a business. My choice as a consumer was to cancel pre-orders as soon as the lengthening list of defects began to emerge. I will continue to withhold my business until I am convinced the product is worth my hard-earned cash. That is my choice. If, as and when Hornby do decide to undertake some positive PR I am sure the magazines will report it.

 

Incidentally, thanks to St Simon of this parish, I was able to directly compare a Hornby VEP (NSE version) with a Bachmann CEP last weekend. It was the first example I had seen in the flesh, so to speak, and it not only ran quite well on Hythe Parkway, but looked the part too. However, (IMHO) the CEP eclipsed it in smoothness and controllability, merely confirming what I had already learned by reading the honest comments in this thread.

[Stevelewis]

I too can confirm that the Bachmann EMUs do 'Eclipse' the Hornby EMUs by quite a margin!

 

That includes the Brighton Belle as well!

[45568]

I too can confirm that the Bachmann EMUs do 'Eclipse' the Hornby EMUs by quite a margin!

 

That includes the Brighton Belle as well!

Last weekend a friend from below the "Smoke" bought his '30's Belle and 60''s CEP. Both performed perfectly on a DC layout with a H&M Duette controller, layout 30'x15', marvellous, as good as each other!!

Cheers, Peter C.