Are we becomming too Insular ?

[The Johnster]

My inner city hell has a park, bus stop at end of street for centre, Newport, Cwmbran, 2 old fashioned butchers, 3 pubs, GP surgery, Burger King, barber, 5 supermarkets, and a ‘Pets For Homes’, all within easy walking distance for a moderately healthy 70-year-old, and even Johnster on a good day!  Not all in the same direction, mind!

 

Now, if someone would just open a model railway shop…  we had one on Broadway once, but the guy running ot was a bit, um, odd!

Edited May 25, 2022 by The Johnster

[pH]

7 hours ago, woodenhead said:

But for masses of people it is important, for elderly people it may be the only real interaction they have with the outside world, similarly with vulnerable people.  

One of my sons worked on the customer service/returns counter in an auto/DIY/hardware store. He said it was quite common for older people (presumably often now single) to buy an item one day and return it the next, just for the human interaction. Being the kind of guy he is, that didn’t bother him and he was happy to ‘provide the service’.

[Hobby]

8 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I'm not at all convinced by the argument that 'most' prefer them.

 

Actually in that paragraph I'd moved on from supermarkets and was talking generally, most people want stuff as cheap as possible and to get that automation is required. However regarding checkouts in particular and especially supermarkets I'd say that the anti-self checkout people (such as you!) are much more vocal than the rest of us and I believe that most people are like me and couldn't really give a damn one way or the other and just use whichever is most convenient. But we never get asked when TV and Radio goes looking for views on them!

[Steamport Southport]

Self service tills?

 

Love 'em. No need to queue up whilst someone is buying a months worth of shopping or wants a ten minute chat about the husband's "Farmer Giles" when all you want is a pint of milk and get out as quickly as possible.

 

Surely there is room for both?

 

I also don't buy the idea that they mean fewer staff as most of the retailers that I visit have more staff than they did in the past.

 

 

 

Mention was made about the Americans being overly polite. They only do it for tips. 20% or they'll chase you down the street with a knife. Too much and they'll chase you down the street to give you change!

 

It happened to me in New York. Left a ten as it was the only note I had left and he ran after me saying "You gave too much!" 

 

I love NY. It's one of those places you either fit right in or hate. Never felt out of place or threatened, even walking about at 3AM.

 

 

 

Jason

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

unless we cull about 75% of world population, it is necessary for survival. 

 

I'm not volunteering to be one of the 75%, btw...

 

As you get older, the more you become self-culling....

[Mad McCann]

10 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I avoid using the automatic ones like the plague, I hate the things as something always go wrong - usually I manage to move the bag slightly and the warning goes off, as if I'm a thief!

So they can stick them, but I do use it if I really don't have a choice.

 

I go to a supermarket chain, but different branches. One in the evenings after about 7pm, where apparently the staff disappear, except for one customer that has 2 full trolleys and have just started unloading at the only manned check out! That is the only time I use self serve by choice.

 

I'm not at all convinced by the argument that 'most' prefer them.

I only ever use the self-service option under extreme protest.

[John M Upton]

It's when you see school kids permanently staring at their phones, messaging the kid who is standing right next to them rather than just talking face to face they you know the future is not looking good...

Edited May 25, 2022 by John M Upton

[phil-b259]

11 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I avoid using the automatic ones like the plague, I hate the things as something always go wrong

 

 

I deliberately chose them - I can scan and pack items at my own pace, not at a pace dictated by someone else.

 

Then again being autistic, social contact with humans is hard - automation or doing things via machines / machine interfaces is far more comfortable than dealing with people. Machines don't judge*, people do...

 

(* they just have good or bad programming)

Edited May 25, 2022 by phil-b259

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

As you get older, the more you become self-culling....

You ultimately have to be; there's no way out of this alive...

[melmerby]

People complaining about automated supermarket checkouts.

Go to Aldi, I haven't seen a self checkout in any within reasonable distance of where I live.

Mind you when you just have a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread an odd one would be handy instead of being behind the piled high trolley in the queue!

[John M Upton]

I have to admit I prefer automatic self service personally, less hassle, not being stuck behind the ditherers who take forever to pay and pack, no irritating chit chat or small talk, just straight in, buy, straight out.

 

Mind you, it's noticeable that practically all self service tills are card only now which is a bit sneaky and the latest wheeze is virtual chugging where at the end they now ask if you wish to round up your payment for charity...

[Chris M]

It is all about cost. Employing people is expensive so quite naturally all organisations are trying to reduce the amount of time their employees have to spend talking to customers.

 

At supermarkets, having observed the processes involved, I'm not sure that the self service option used by Asda etc is cheaper to operate than the "get them through quick" policy of Aldi & Lidl. The Tesco model of the self service supervisor being able to authorise purchases from a central control rather than going to each self service unit does look like a vast improvement in terms of efficiency but again reduces customer contact.

 

I'm fine with self service and most other attempts to reduce staffing costs but the one thing I really can't get on with is these online "smart bots" that they use instead of a human. In my experience they are totally useless and only serve to wind up already dissatisfied buyers. The one used by PC World is particularly useless and annoying, I now try to avoid buying from PC World almost because of this bot.

 

Its always worth visiting your local model shop - it helps to keep them in business and there is always someone to chat with. :)

 

[Hobby]

10 hours ago, John M Upton said:

It's when you see school kids permanently staring at their phones, messaging the kid who is standing right next to them rather than just talking face to face they you know the future is not looking good...

 

Not just school kids sadly...

 

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

The Tesco model of the self service supervisor being able to authorise purchases from a central control rather than going to each self service unit does look like a vast improvement in terms of efficiency but again reduces customer contact.

 

But why would someone wanting customer contact go to a self-service checkout?! :)

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Chris M said:

It is all about cost. Employing people is expensive so quite naturally all organisations are trying to reduce the amount of time their employees have to spend talking to customers.

 

As with a lot of changes that get made to the world. That's why I label them cheap and nasty. It's easy enough to understand why they happen, that doesn't mean that I like them or regard them as an improvement. I've come to regard "efficiency" as a dirty word.

[Fenman]

12 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

As with a lot of changes that get made to the world. That's why I label them cheap and nasty. It's easy enough to understand why they happen, that doesn't mean that I like them or regard them as an improvement. I've come to regard "efficiency" as a dirty word.

 

"Efficiency" is a strange concept. When I was doing management training, centuries ago, "just in time" processes were a huge thing. And the cost savings in terms of reduced stock holdings and therefore reduced working capital were often huge. But of course it turned out that the more effective such systems are, the more fragile they are; more subject to disruption when the supply of even a single element becomes difficult (as the car industry has recently discovered over supplies of chips).

 

World War 2 demonstrated the advantages of an inefficient railway network: as the Germans disrupted one element, towns served by multiple lines simply moved the flow of goods and people to one of the alternative lines: there was only relatively short-term impact from aerial raids on railway lines. By the time Beeching came along, all that flexibility had been re-categorised as wasteful and inefficient duplication. And an academic economics study has estimated that those competing 19th century capitalists wasted about 50% more share-holders' money on building the British railway network than would have been needed for the most economical such system offering the same overall network benefits. 

 

Back on topic, I think the OP question is a bit simplistic in that it assumes that "we" have similar wants and needs. Those of us with avoidant personalities are immeasurably thrilled when we can minimise the amount of contact we have to have with other humans. Especially if they want to engage us in what we consider to be inane and irritating chit-chat. While other people crave that same contact and value it highly. As someone else has posted, it's nice to have the option of either, to cater for different people's preferences.

 

Paul

 

 

[Chris M]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

 

But why would someone wanting customer contact go to a self-service checkout?! :)

I was just illustrating how contact is continuously reducing. If you wanted to buy alcohol at self service supermarket checkouts you used to have to wait for someone to come and authorise it. Now that is authorised by someone not far away but no actual contact is needed. Left me looking daft as I was on auto pilot waiting for someone to come and authorise the transaction but it had already been done. I see this as a good improvement in effeciency.

[Reorte]

6 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I was just illustrating how contact is continuously reducing. If you wanted to buy alcohol at self service supermarket checkouts you used to have to wait for someone to come and authorise it. Now that is authorised by someone not far away but no actual contact is needed. Left me looking daft as I was on auto pilot waiting for someone to come and authorise the transaction but it had already been done. I see this as a good improvement in effeciency.

What's so good about it? Sounds like another depressing example of an ever more ludicrous, disconnected world caused by the pursuit of efficiency, and why I've come to despise the concept.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Reorte

[BoD]

5 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Mind you, it's noticeable that practically all self service tills are card only now which is a bit sneaky and the latest wheeze is virtual chugging where at the end they now ask if you wish to round up your payment for charity...

The increase in card use is, to a certain extent, an inevitable result of recent events.  Only a few years ago I was in a pub and found it, to me, incredulous that someone would pay for a pint using card.  I personally wouldn’t have dreamt of using it for everyday small purchases.  Now I find I do the same. In some cases, as you say, there’s no choice but sometimes it is indeed easier. On a recent visit to The Lake District it was noticeable that all parking payment and even toilets had been adapted to accept card payments.

 

Regarding the charity requests, an imposition I guess, but I can see where the charities are coming from.   I suspect that they made quite a lot from the buckets at the end of checkout where people would put that loose change rather than back in their  pockets.  Not much different to rounding up.  Downside is though, you don’t really know which charities benefit and they are probably no longer smaller local ones.  I sincerely hope that there isn’t an admin fee for doing this.

 

Sorry about that - RMweb thread drift at its best.

[D860 VICTORIOUS]

Are we becoming too insular...?

I'm in a walking group going out on a Saturday morning.It amazes me that when passing fellow walkers or people walking dogs,almost without exception everyone will say a cheery "morning!" or stop for a quick chat.

However,go up to the local High St. and try to engage people in conversation and it's likely they will look at you askance or cross the road,maybe something to do with the calibre of the town I live in.

Similarly,I live in an apartment,and apart from some near neighbours,other residents seem unwilling to engage in conversation,though I have tried.

I've spent most of my working life dealing face to face with customers,which in the main has been enjoyable,having a quick chat and exchanging views contributes positively to the day IMHO,and nowadays endless hanging on the phone to companies listening to what seems like 50 different options in a recorded message is infuriating,so much so that I often give up,which is probably just what they want.

A bit OT,but I've noticed TV ads that attempt to extract humour from a person going to their fridge to find they've run out of milk or whatever.What happens next? Of course,no taking personal responsibility for not buying milk or lack of planning,just call deliveroo or whoever it is and get someone else to do it for you....

I sometimes fear for where we're heading....

On the bright side,there's still massive interest in Diesel Hydraulics....

Neil

[TheQ]

Went to a Barclays a couple of weeks ago, while I was there (sitting waiting for SWMBO) no more than 1 person at a time was using one of the machines, three staff were trying to get people to use them.. Meanwhile there was a queue of at least 6 people  to the counter where 1 person was serving....

 

Went to Tesco's last night, long queues to use the self service machines, so I went to 1 one of the only 2 manned out of 20 tills and there was no queue!!!

 

Norwich surface parking is being changed to smartphone use... I don't have one, you can go into a local shop to pay there.... but... I only need one of the surface car parks at night when the shops are closed.... Actually belay that.. they announced that last year, but I've just seen on their web site , the machines now accept smartphones , card and cash.. so they have seen sense..

 

oh I generally avoid crowds, if at a show I rush round before the main crowds get in, then sit in a corner perusing any purchase, a book is often bought. till the main rush is over..

Edited May 26, 2022 by TheQ

[Steamport Southport]

But what do you think about the pedestrianisation of Norwich City Centre?

 

 

 

[phil-b259]

9 hours ago, John M Upton said:

 and the latest wheeze is virtual chugging where at the end they now ask if you wish to round up your payment for charity...

 

Miles better than real chugging though as its pretty easy to decline it...

 

(and for the avoidance of doubt, I do donate to worthy causes - but preferably by ways that allow said charity to claim gift aid on it)

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

 

 

Norwich surface parking is being changed to smartphone use... I don't have one, you can go into a local shop to pay there.... but... I only need one of the surface car parks at night when the shops are closed.... Actually belay that.. they announced that last year, but I've just seen on their web site , the machines now accept smartphones , card and cash.. so they have seen sense..

 

 

Parking machines that acept cash are a target for thieves, plus require regular emptying - as such there are clear advantages to not having them.

 

However as a flip side to that you do need to provide people with a way to pay other than mobiles - and having the ability to pay by card ticks that box AND avoids the surcharges that online payment sometimes attracts when online payment is contracted out to 3rd parties.

 

(I hardly ever carry coinage with me these days - only a few notes as I pay for everything by card).

[TheQ]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

But what do you think about the pedestrianisation of Norwich City Centre?

 

 

 

That must be ancient, Dixons / Currys moved out to the sweet briar estate donkeys years ago..

PS they are digging up St Stephens again after spending a fortune on it only a very few years ago...

[AndrueC]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

Norwich surface parking is being changed to smartphone use... I don't have one, you can go into a local shop to pay there.... but... I only need one of the surface car parks at night when the shops are closed.... Actually belay that.. they announced that last year, but I've just seen on their web site , the machines now accept smartphones , card and cash.. so they have seen sense..

Good to hear but I assume pay by phone (extended office hours)  or SMS would also be an option neither of which require a smartphone.