Hattons pre-owned items

[GWR-fan]

My GBP93.00 Hornby "Royal Highlander" train pack arrived today, complete with the accessories like front truck with larger diameter wheels and the brakerods.  Everything apart from the loco itself were still factory wrapped. The loco had most likely been removed from the packaging for inspection but was still in new/unused condition.  Basically the pack was as new condition.  The items in this pack are all super detail items and yet the pack is generally undersold on price.  I am not complaining.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

I would say the frame is bent as well.  Good box though...  🤣

FFS.  Put a stop block at the end of your track to stop engines diving onto the floor.

Or just build your layout on the floor, like Sam's trains

Edited February 13, 2023 by Michael Hodgson

[OnTheBranchline]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

FFS.  Put a stop block at the end of your track to stop engines diving onto the floor.

Or just build your layout on the floor, like Sam's trains

 

Just to be sure to hoover it. 

[GWR-fan]

Just another shoutout for Hattons pre-owned items.  There are still bargains to be had amongst all the "over priced" pre-owned items listed,  however, when you see a bargain do not snooze as no doubt some one else will pick it up before you.  Currently I have just received five superb pre-owned (used) locomotives and numerous pieces of rolling stock for what I consider a bargain.  I normally prefer not to pay more than around GBP55.00 (excluding VAT) for locomotives and around GBP8.00 maximum (excluding VAT) for rolling stock.   Most of what I receive is like new and in many cases unused,

 

I cringe when I see even old Mainline rolling stock for GBP15.00 when just a couple of years ago the same item would be no more than GBP5.00.  Similarly with pre-owned locomotives that a couple of years ago were less than GBP60.00 but now are listed for GBP100.00 upwards for nearly twenty year old Hornby models.  Even old Bachmann split chassis models are demanding premium prices, particularly Bachmann Manor class models with the introduction of the Dapol and Accurascale announcements.  No doubt the pre-owned prices are simply reflecting the increase in price of similar new items.

 

Currently listed are two old Lima 37T grain hoppers.  These are very basic models with all detail moulded on,  They are listed at GBP18.00 each.  Last week the model  was GBP17.00.  The week previous two were listed at GBP9.00 and GBP12.00 respectively.  How could a model increase in price almost double in two weeks?   There is simply no consistency in Hatton's pricing.  I picked up a couple of weeks ago two very nice Hornby M7 models for less than GBP50.00 each and yet a week later the same models were over GBP80.00.

 

I will very rarely puchase a new model as in my opinion the prices do not reflect value when similar but perhaps older and less specced models will give just as much satisfaction.   Bargains are there but you generally need to be on the ball  The Hattons trunk service has been a godsend for me,  saving me hundreds of pounds in shipping costs.   When I see something that I want I snap it up and then mix and match trunk purchases to maximise the number of goods to ship in each package.

 

Edit:  the store just did a Saturday night dump and listed more Lima whisky grain hoppers.   While there are still one 37T Bass Charrington hopper at GBP18.00 and another at GBP 12.00,  I just picked up four Lima 45T "Black & White" whisky grain hoppers for GBP10.00 (incl. VAT) each.  As stated earlier there is no stability in individual item pricing from one day to the next.  The Bachmann whisky grain hoppers sell for upwards of GBP25.00 each.  With my GBP10.00 limit on rolling stock I will stick to the cheaper less detailed models.

Edited March 4, 2023 by GWR-fan
Additional info

[jjb1970]

I just saw this on a Hattons used listing:

 

Packaging : Like new, never been opened

Numbering : As per factory

Bodyshell finish : Pristine

Cosmetic Condition : As manufactured

Running : Fine When Last Run

Control modifications : Analogue (as per factory)

 

At the risk of sounding cynical, if the packaging has never been opened how can they comment on running qualities? Have they opened the packaging and tested the modelling (invalidating the first statement) or are they assuming it was test run at the factory and that the test run was successful, in which case they have no way of knowing that. I may be picking on Hattons, and they're not unique and may not be the worst (misuse of 'new' is endemic on EBay) but I can't help thinking they don't help themselves with such listings.

 

I'd add that if it was something I wanted and the price was right it probably wouldn't put me off buying.

[phil-b259]

12 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I just saw this on a Hattons used listing:

 

Packaging : Like new, never been opened

Numbering : As per factory

Bodyshell finish : Pristine

Cosmetic Condition : As manufactured

Running : Fine When Last Run

Control modifications : Analogue (as per factory)

 

At the risk of sounding cynical, if the packaging has never been opened how can they comment on running qualities? Have they opened the packaging and tested the modelling (invalidating the first statement) or are they assuming it was test run at the factory and that the test run was successful, in which case they have no way of knowing that. I may be picking on Hattons, and they're not unique and may not be the worst (misuse of 'new' is endemic on EBay) but I can't help thinking they don't help themselves with such listings.

 

I'd add that if it was something I wanted and the price was right it probably wouldn't put me off buying.

 

Having sold some items to Hattons recently these are the standard questions they ask you (the seller) about each product you are selling.

 

If the seller is truthful then the comments then all the above will be correct, If the seller choses to lie then they will be wrong. Simples!

 

Hattons business model with pre-owned stuff is to sell it on with as little intervention as possible - each minute a member of Hattons staff has to spend evaluating the model is a minute they cannot spend on other tasks and would destroy the business model (which is to move stuff on ASAP and keep the cash rolling). Please remember Hattons is not a huge multinational they cannot afford to tie up staff for hours inspecting and testing every single thing they buy - if they did then then being in the whole pre-owned business would not be worth doing financially

 

Hattons basically take a gamble that in most cases the purchaser will be happy with what they have got - and if the purchaser isn't then Hattons defuse that by giving a full refund. Yes some may whinge about some of the things they see - but ultimately nobody is forcing you to buy it and Hattons no quibble money back guarantee means if the worst does happen you will not be left with a model you do not want

 

 

[GWR-fan]

I find that in many cases the store actually downgrades the actual condition/quality of a model.  There will be the most minor flaw or fault and yet the store will describe as cosmetically damaged.  Also the most minor paint blemish,  more noticeable under the harsh glare of the camera but barely visible with the eye,  will see the model downgraded as "cosmetically damaged".

 

This morning I received the "old" Hornby permanent way breakdown trainset with the N2 locomotive from the store.   Apart from stating the transformer and controller were missing,  the description was "good box".   In reality,  all the parts supplied, including the track,  were as new and unused condition.  There was no evidence that any of the components had been placed on the rails.  The crane components plus buffer stop were still factory sealed and the track still tie-wrapped.    I did not really need the set but it was too good a bargain price to let slide by.

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

If the seller is truthful then the comments then all the above will be correct, If the seller choses to lie then they will be wrong. Simples!

 

 

The goods are being sold by Hattons, therefore they are the ones responsible for accurately describing them.

 

In the case I mentioned, if the package has genuinely never been opened, then they could just state 'not tested'. If it has been tested and runs fine, then clearly the package has been opened so the first statement cannot be true. If the information is as given to Hattons, then Hattons are the ones buying and I'd expect a certain due diligence to check what the seller has written to pick up on seemingly contradictory descriptions and ask for clarification (it was not a cheap item).

 

Saying you can just end the goods back for a refund is fair enough, but it doesn't alter responsibility to accurately describe what is being sold. I view such assurances as a form of insurance for unforeseen issues (i.e. something like a factory sealed item which has a fault), not as a catch-all to allow businesses to do anything and hope that most of the time things are OK.

 

In this case it's probably of no consequence, but I have seen them advertise models which were showing clear signs of mazak rot without that being stated. OK, people may say if I can see signs of mazak rot so should anyone else, assuming everybody in the hobby knows what it is and the tell tale signs.

[GWR-fan]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

 

The goods are being sold by Hattons, therefore they are the ones responsible for accurately describing them.

 

In the case I mentioned, if the package has genuinely never been opened, then they could just state 'not tested'. If it has been tested and runs fine, then clearly the package has been opened so the first statement cannot be true.rybody in the hobby knows what it is and the tell tale signs..............................................

 

The statement "never been opened" has become synomynous with "like new condition", possibly just test run and while not factually correct,  is seen for what it is, a bit of hype.   Think of all the instore and media advertising for say McDonalds hamburgers.  Do we really think that the burger we receive is going to look like the plump oversize burger in the advertising material.  We "accept" that the company has taken a licence with its product and is displaying it as we would like to see it (plump and juicy, overflowing with ingredients),  but what we get is a flattened burger barely one-third the perceived height of the "advertising" burger.  What we get in abundance though is surplus lettuce (or cabbage when lettuce stocks are low),  a flattened piece of supposedly 100% beef "pattie" and rather scrawny salad filling.  Do we complain and demand a burger like in the advertising?    No,  we silently acknowledge that we are being mislead as that just how it is.

[Michael Hodgson]

4 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

The statement "never been opened" has become synomynous with "like new condition", possibly just test run and while not factually correct,  is seen for what it is, a bit of hype.   Think of all the instore and media advertising for say McDonalds hamburgers.  Do we really think that the burger we receive is going to look like the plump oversize burger in the advertising material.  We "accept" that the company has taken a licence with its product and is displaying it as we would like to see it (plump and juicy, overflowing with ingredients),  but what we get is a flattened burger barely one-third the perceived height of the "advertising" burger.  What we get in abundance though is surplus lettuce (or cabbage when lettuce stocks are low),  a flattened piece of supposedly 100% beef "pattie" and rather scrawny salad filling.  Do we complain and demand a burger like in the advertising?    No,  we silently acknowledge that we are being mislead as that just how it is.

Not being a patron of McDonalds, I was wondering whether these burgers come in packets that have "never been opened" and whether they are advertised as bring in "like new condition" ?

[jjb1970]

I put the Big Mac pictures in the same category as model railway advertising which features something like a locomotive with all the detail parts fitted and hauling a train of nice coaches or wagons on a top class layout. An optimistic vision of what is being supplied but not dishonest.

McD recently overhauled the double cheese quarter pounder with a new patty and new glazed bun. After all the advertising I tried one and surprisingly it actually looked like the marketing images and was actually very good.

[spamcan61]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Not being a patron of McDonalds, I was wondering whether these burgers come in packets that have "never been opened" and whether they are advertised as bring in "like new condition" ?

"never been opened" is a factual statement that can be proved one way or the other.  "like new condition" is an opinion which is inherently unprovable.

[Robin Brasher]

Hattons do examine their second hand models. I traded in some Bachmann Bulleid coaches and described them as boxed and slightly used. One was a bit dusty as it had been in a display case and another had a small white mark on the roof that I did not notice until I packed it. Hattons still paid the price they had agreed and they forwarded a copy of their product description. They mentioned that one coach was dusty and another had a mark on the roof.  They said that one had been repainted although it was not. I think they give sellers about half what they sell the models for.

[GernBlanstonShow]

Hattons listed pre-owned models on a Saturday today?

 

A one-off? Or do they have a weekend crew doing pre-owned listings now?

I'll admit I'm part of the brigade of daily lookers seeing if any cheap non-running models pop up.

Edited March 12, 2023 by GernBlanstonShow

[GWR-fan]

2 hours ago, GernBlanstonShow said:

Hattons listed pre-owned models on a Saturday today?

 

A one-off? Or do they have a weekend crew doing pre-owned listings now?

I'll admit I'm part of the brigade of daily lookers seeing if any cheap non-running models pop up.

 

A very rare occurrence.   More frequent is additional items added several hours later after an initial dump of listings.  Worthwhile rechecking several times each day as new items may have been added.  I picked up a couple of coaches from the Saturday dump.

 

I am particularly attracted to coaches that are fitted with Hornby 14.1mm metal wheelsets.  With a pack of ten Hornby metal wheels approaching $50.00 downunder ($5.00 per axle),  I factor in the four axles on a coach at $20.00.  Thus if GBP12.00 coach has the metal wheels already fitted then I do not need to outlay the additional cost fitting metal wheels,  so effectively the coach is only a couple of dollars.  More often than not these coaches present with little to no use at all.  Both coaches purchased this morning (GBP12.00 and GBP11.00) come fitted with the 14.1mm metal wheels.

Edited March 12, 2023 by GWR-fan
Additional info

[GWR-fan]

Curious if others are having this issue with the Hattons website.  At present a heap of pre-owned items have been reduced in price,  Some trainsets and train packs had sizeable discounts. However, if an item is added to the trunk then the trunk reflects the pre-bargain price reduction (higher price).  If one proceeds to the checkout then either the site states that there are no items in your cart or the lower price remains.  It seems hit and miss what result you get.

Edited March 13, 2023 by GWR-fan
Additional info

[Sjcm]

Apart from their search engine giving me a migrane, I'll never get their pricing. They've got a lms wrenn 8f on there, worn paint, wrong box = 76 quid. A wrenn LNER 8f, pristine paintwork, mint in box = 37. Price on ebay  60 plus. EDIT: not anymore. Someone got a bargain😎

Edited March 14, 2023 by Sjcm
Update post

[stewartingram]

There pricing is simple to understand.

 

They put a price on something. If you don't like it, you leave it. Same as everywhere else, accept the fact.

[Helmdon]

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

There pricing is simple to understand.

 

They put a price on something. If you don't like it, you leave it. Same as everywhere else, accept the fact.

Exactly - they have what look like bargains, what look like fair prices, and what look 'ambitious' - but I buy what I want from them and have never felt that I've over paid - if I want something and I think they've priced it too high, I don't buy it or buy it elsewhere.

 

And they remain, for me (and only IMO) my default for used locomotives. I've put a lot of money their way over the years, and still trust their descriptions more than some bloke I've never met on ebay. At worst, as someone else noted upthread, I've got something better than described - never (yet) worse. 

 

Fundamentally, they're a retailer - I don't want them to be my best friend, and I accept they're out to make money. I want them to be, and genuinely find them to be, quick, courteous, and *overall*, across multiple purchases, basically fair. Like I say, when I don't think an individual price is fair (or more accurately what I want to pay) I don't buy. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Helmdon

[Sjcm]

7 hours ago, stewartingram said:

There pricing is simple to understand.

 

They put a price on something. If you don't like it, you leave it. Same as everywhere else, accept the fact.

That's fair comment, but as a business presumably trying to make as big a profit as possible, it would probably make sense to sell the common bad condition item at a reasonable price while not giving away the rarer mint condition item for peanuts

[GWR-fan]

31 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

......................................................................, it would probably make sense to sell the common bad condition item at a reasonable price while not giving away the rarer mint condition item for peanuts

 

As I mostly purchase GWR items,  I find that items for that railway generally attract a premium price over a similar item from one of the other big four.  In the Oxford diecast range a pre-owned "GWR" vehicle will command a higher price than a similar vehicle in a generic livery.  Regardless, to an extent, on condition,  it usually relies on demand to set a selling price, so a mint item may not be as expensive as a lesser condition item.

[Sjcm]

9 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

 

As I mostly purchase GWR items,  I find that items for that railway generally attract a premium price over a similar item from one of the other big four.  In the Oxford diecast range a pre-owned "GWR" vehicle will command a higher price than a similar vehicle in a generic livery.  Regardless, to an extent, on condition,  it usually relies on demand to set a selling price, so a mint item may not be as expensive as a lesser condition item.

That's very true, but I've sold both a LNER 8F and a LMS 8f and if you gave me the option of a playworn lms one with a wrong box or a mint LNER one as new, well i know what I'd chose. (Mine went for 90+ so someone like Hatton with their reputation and internet presence?).  I've sold about 7  well used Hornby dublo 8fs with no box on ebay and the lowest I got was in the mid-30s, so someone got a cracking bargain today.

[GWR-fan]

Unfortunately every cloud does not have a silver lining.  I believe that I am now cured of my obsession with pre-owned Hornby train packs and trainsets after the last two arrivals.  One was an own goal,  described as DCC fitted but non-runner.  In the past I have had a lot of success simply by removing the decoder and fitting a blanking plate.  No such luck this time as the axle driven gear was cracked and as well the "Railroad" style Golden Arrow Pullman coaches were discoloured from exposure to the sun plus one wind deflector was missing from the streamlined casing on the loco body.  I thought that I had a replacement gear however, all the gears that I had were around 0.015" larger diameter and could not be fitted.  Spent hours wasting my time to no avail.

 

Today,  the "Golden Arrow" trainpack arrived in seemingly unused condition with no marking at all on the wheelsets and the coaches were perfect with all lamps illuminating.  Excitedly went to test the "never run" loco and a big fat nothing.  The chassis is non-DCC ready with the sprung rear axle and power supplied though the chassis.  In troubleshooting I rewired the chassis and sporadically was able to get occasional bursts of power,  even with the tender connected.  Even when it ran for barely a few seconds it was obvious that the drive was binding.   To top it off the R/H slidebar broke off its mounting thus requiring a bit more than a bit of glue to get it to stay on.  When I revisit I will mot likely pin the metal slidebar to the plastic mount (a pathetically weak design).   Disconcerted I packed everything up in disgust at my gullibility in purchasing a supposedly never run train pack based on just one photo of the items packaged in original tissue paper.  Never again (alas,  I am awaiting a "Bournemouth Belle" and "Tyseley" train pack to arrive in the mail with hopefully no further dramas).

 

Feeling quite peeved I thought that I needed to salvage something from this fiasco so I removed the centre axle from the non-DCC "new" loco chassis and fitted it to the trainset "Golden Arrow" chassis.  While it does run there is a slight wobble as the loco moves and it is better in reverse than in forward direction.  At least it runs.  Looks like I have an almost complete loco in spares.  I could not refit the BR early crest body to the now sort of running chassis as one streamlining wind deflector is missing,  so I fitted the malachite green "British Railways" body.

 

Other train packs and trainsets that I purchased in the discount sale over the last week were better represented and heavily discounted.  The Hornby dublo 100 year celebration A4 "Sir Nigel Gresley" trainset was perfect and in new condition although a teak composite coach had been changed with a brake composite.  Also perfect was a Hornby Premier train set with the Hornby HM2000+ power supply, dual oval of track, West country loco andthree Pullman coaches.  All were as new and looked to be unused,  perhaps never removed from their boxes.  I never would have purchased them but for the massive savings,  so perhaps some consolation for the dramas the last two nights

[Halvarras]

I have a few Hornby Mark 1s of late 1970s vintage resprayed and lined which I will be keeping, and fancied having a go at converting a pair of BSKs into an SK (I've done one from buffet car parts but one can never have too many SKs!) and maybe a BG too if possible, so I was eyeing up a couple of maroon BSKs at £10 and £9 when the Hattons sale kicked in reducing them to £8 and £6, so I took this as a sign of approval from the Universe and placed an order. One was described as "assembled from kit" (CKD) so I expected the bolts to simplify bogie removing/fitting, but both have rivetted bogies......oh well, never mind. The best bit is that both came fitted with Hornby metal disc wheels, one 12.6mm and the other 14.1mm - the reason I chose this pair, as these now cost around £2 per wheelset (35p when they first appeared!) so well chuffed with that.

Unfortunately I undermined my smugness by adding a wrecked Bachmann Class 42 Warship with bits missing to the order, hoping that I could use its drivetrain to upgrade a Mainline model. D800 Sir Brian Robertson for £34 should have had big red flags waving, as I knew it was one of those affected by Mazak Rot........yep, and the motor ain't great either, although the central casting it sits in seems sound. Having almost instantly written it off as a lost cause I reckon by adding a spare pair of Mainline wheels and bogie frames and a slightly rattly Bachmann Class 25 motor from the spares box I may yet be able to cobble something together, the ol' grey matter has formulated a plan of sorts but it's now been inserted at the bottom of a long To Do List. At least the body/underframe is in good shape, although glue marks in the nameplate area would probably mean a repaint. Hmm.....maybe one day I'll do that disc-headcode Warship conversion after all......

 

 

[GWR-fan]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

....................................................The best bit is that both came fitted with Hornby metal disc wheels, one 12.6mm and the other 14.1mm - the reason I chose this pair, as these now cost around £2 per wheelset (35p when they first appeared!) so well chuffed with that.

.......................................................................

 

 

 

Like you I also hunt down those coaches with the metal wheelsets fitted.  Over the weekend I purchased several coaches as I look at an item as the sum of its parts.  Downunder a pack of ten Hornby metal wheels are regularly listed at $50.00Aud at stores and the usual auction sites for a pack ($5.00Aud an axle) plus postage.  A couple of years ago I was purchasing the Hornby 14.1mm metal wheelsets including airmail shipping for $9.50Aud a pack of ten from Hattons.  Thus when a coach has four metal wheelsets fitted I see this as a GBP10.00 saving.  When the coach so fitted is selling for GBP10.00 then in theory the coach costs nothing (as all I really wanted was the wheels) or vice versa the wheels costs nothing.   On Saturday,  seen in the pre-owned listings,  I purchased an old transcontinental mail coach for GBP5.00,  not because I wanted the coach,  but it was fitted with a pair of Commonwealth bogies and four 14.1mm metal wheels.  The coach body will be thrown out.