Hattons pre-owned items

[GWR-fan]

 

i have learned my lesson that there is no such thing as a free lunch.  Purchased from the current discounted sale four Hornby train packs/trainsets arrived over the last two days.  One the Tysley pack with "Pitchford Hall" ran superbly with no complaint.  The other three contained West Country class locomotives (one non-DCC ready) and all three had issues.  One was binding and had a split axle driven gear,  while the other two,  the loco would not run without the tender connected and then very sporadically.  As mentioned in another post I was able to combine parts from two dead locomotives to get one to run but then operation was not as I would prefer as the loc had a wobble at low speed.

 

Two of the West Country train packs were unused and only one image showing the contents still factory wrapped was evident,  however,  the boxes were in excellent condition and that is apparently what is more important than running qualities.  The third loco,  after some investigation and disassembly,  I discovered that some ham fisted individual (possibly factory employee assembler) had stripped the threads in the chassis block on the aft mount screw hole, so that the lower cover plate could not be tightened down and thus breaking the continuity between the phosphor bronze pickups and the raised metal nib on the chassis.  Using a screw taken from those that hold down Oxford diecast models to their plastic bases,  I was able to pickup some threads deaper in the chassis block.  The screw however was about 1mm too long and so I made a spacer from plastic card to securely fit the lower cover plate on the underside of the chassis.  After that power continuity was made and the loco ran very smoothly.  Given that this was a supposedly never run model,  a simple track test,  like the store used to do before listing an item,  would have shown the model to be a non-runner and likely traced back to original assembly.  Three West Country models (two supposedly "never run") and all non-runners.  Prior the store policy to protect the integrity of the "highly desireable" factory packaging,  all three models would have been test run prior to listing;  Alas, they were not.

 

Yes,  I could have returned the items to the store,  however, this would extend the tension for weeks into the future as I awaited the receipt of the items to the store and then eventually have been compensated the purchase price with nothing to gain for the "pain" endured.  I prefer to try to fix any broken models rather than report the issue to the store.   The train packs were purchased for very good prices so at least that is some compensation,  but then I have had my fill of non-running models received and would have not purchased the models in the first instance if listed as non-runners,   no matter how tempting the bargain.  I will particularly avoid any future bargain priced sets that include any variation of the West Country, BOB and Merchant Navy rebuilt models. 

 

Perhaps in the future I will not be so willing a customer of the pre-owned listings on offer.   Over the last couple of years I have seen the price of pre-owned (used/secondhand) items double in price except for one model.  It seems that the Bachmann N class is stuck around the GBP60.00 mark as it has been for years.  Even old Hornby shorty HST coaches now are GBP20.00 each.  As the price of new items increase so do the prices of the used items.  The release of the Dapol Manor class saw the old Bachmann models double in price.  As a typical piece of four-wheel rolling stock is now around the 30 quid benchmark,  old Mainline models now fetch around 15 quid.  Not long ago you would not pay more than 5 or 6 quid for them.

[GWR-fan]

There are the occasional bargains on the store pre-owned listing site.  This morning (5am local time) listed under "Steam Train Packs" under the "OO scale" heading was Hornby R2306 "Caledonian" train pack for GBP75.00 (GBP62.50 after VAT removal).  The pack surprisingly was not part of the current Warehouse Sale nor part of the overnight dump of pre-owned items.  I do not recall it being listed last night (late afternoon British time).   I say a bargain as the pack contains a five-pole loco drive super detail Coronation class locomotive, "King George VI" and three Mk1 coaches.  Described as recently tested and running fine.   Old three-pole ringfield train packs like the Schools class pack and the Kentish Belle normally list around GPB 100.00,  so why the "Caledonian" pack was listed at GBP75.00 is one of the mysteries that is the lucky dip barrel of Hattons pricing policy.

 

Normally,  a Coronation class loco of similar vintage would list pre-owned around GBP75.00 and Mk1 coaches from a train pack around GBP18.00 - 20.00.  I am a fan of big express locomotives so this train pack fell into my lap with minimal expense as I will add it to my trunk and the weight will barely impact on the shipping cost.  To ship the pack on its own would cost GBP18.00 by Royal Mail or GBP28.00 by DHL Express.  As I already have a few items in the trunk the train pack will only cost me around GBP4.50 extra to ship.

 

 

[GWR-fan]

A pre-owned Hornby SR olive green 2-BIL emu arrived this morning supposedly with underframe damage to the power car.  What arrived is like new and I cannot find any evidence of damage to the model.  The store's item descriptions do have me scratching my head at times.

[Sjcm]

I think they're buying so much stock that they have neither the time or the expertise to assess and price everything and just want it out the door asap. Hopefully they won't get their act together😁

[GWR-fan]

1 hour ago, Sjcm said:

I think they're buying so much stock that they have neither the time or the expertise to assess and price everything and just want it out the door asap. Hopefully they won't get their act together😁

 

In the same package was a train pack with a Britannia class loco, "Black Prince".  Described as having an issue with a minor linkage adjacent the left handrail on the boiler to be refitted and the rear wall of the tender bunker adrift (simple fix).  Alas, while it runs well,  steps were missing from both the loco and tender,  parts of the valve linkage were adrift on both sides and both buffers on the pilot beam were damaged.  Not quite fitting the description. 

[Halvarras]

It's not uncommon to be able to see very obvious damage in the photos which is not mentioned in the description, which lists less serious defects.

 

3 hours ago, Sjcm said:

I think they're buying so much stock that they have neither the time or the expertise to assess and price everything and just want it out the door asap. Hopefully they won't get their act together😁

There was an instance recently where two apparently identical items were presented, exactly the same description but significantly different prices. I agree, I think this is the reason, a victim of their own success?

I have to assume that the latest innovation - 360-degree photography for locomotives (unless mint/boxed) - is an automated process which is faster than the previous photography, but when most items were only shot twice - front 3/4 one side and broadside of the other - plus a box view, one has to wonder whether this admittedly very helpful feature has piled further pressure on the staff dealing with the pre-owned throughput. Some days an astonishing amount of stuff goes up.......

[Sjcm]

49 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

It's not uncommon to be able to see very obvious damage in the photos which is not mentioned in the description, which lists less serious defects.

 

There was an instance recently where two apparently identical items were presented, exactly the same description but significantly different prices. I agree, I think this is the reason, a victim of their own success?

I have to assume that the latest innovation - 360-degree photography for locomotives (unless mint/boxed) - is an automated process which is faster than the previous photography, but when most items were only shot twice - front 3/4 one side and broadside of the other - plus a box view, one has to wonder whether this admittedly very helpful feature has piled further pressure on the staff dealing with the pre-owned throughput. Some days an astonishing amount of stuff goes up.......

It's a common occurrence across the board and it's worth a browse for the giggles. They had 3 of the old Hornby car transporters on there the other day, all with no cars. 1 undamaged - 10 pounds. I with damage to a rail -  10 pounds. 1 smashed up - 13 pounds😂 Every time I go on YouTube I get hammered by Hattons ads offering to buy my trains so on the assumption advertising works, I reckon they can barely cope.

[woodenhead]

8 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

It's a common occurrence across the board and it's worth a browse for the giggles. They had 3 of the old Hornby car transporters on there the other day, all with no cars. 1 undamaged - 10 pounds. I with damage to a rail -  10 pounds. 1 smashed up - 13 pounds😂 Every time I go on YouTube I get hammered by Hattons ads offering to buy my trains so on the assumption advertising works, I reckon they can barely cope.

But it's only an invitation to treat, you don't have to buy and if you feel the price is too high Hattons will be open to sensible offers.

 

Secondhand is not some exact science, it's why we have auctions, it's goes to those who feel the price is worth it.

 

If Hattons overprice a model it will sit in storage until a sale comes along and then they can drop the price and get rid of it, those car transporters prices might result in two selling at £10 and the £13 one sitting around, but if it is the only one and you want one as a basis for something else so the damage don't matter then £13 might seem reasonable for the project.

[JohnR]

Thats the thing that gets me, they have a big database, and a history of what sells and what doesn't, so why are their prices so variable like that?

[Sjcm]

To be fair, a lot of their pricing is okay. Yes you may pay 10-20pounds less for an eBay item but if it's a loco you can return it if it's described wrong whereas on eBay you get the cheaper price because it's sold as seen or not tested. It's just the utter wrecks going for fortunes, the occasional inexplicably cheap item that pops up now and then, and the search option listing 2 or more identical items next to each other where the condition bares no relation to the price. I don't think it's deliberate, just discrepancies between different members of staff handling the pricing and the sheer inability to handle the amount stuff coming in.

[D9020 Nimbus]

The thing I've noticed particularly about Hattons is that the condition of an item seems not to be considered when pricing. I'm just wondering how long it will be before the pre-owned bubble bursts. I note that Rails now have more than 10000 used items currently listed on eBay. A couple of months ago there were around 7000. They seem to think this is something to celebrate…

 

Yes, the markup might be pretty high, but that's no help if the items just aren’t selling…

[Michael Hodgson]

12 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

 

Yes, the markup might be pretty high, but that's no help if the items just aren’t selling…

They have regular sales.  40% off selected items in Sheffield the other day. 

Yes, I know some of them wouldn't be worth the postage even at 100% off.

 

A bit like carpet and furniture showrooms that seem to use Closing Down Sale as a trade name.  People love a "bargain".

Problem solved - they shift their overpriced junk.

[Rich_F]

A new one from Hattons for me. 1/72 Volvo digger listed as a bargain at £11 in great condition & mint with a frontal box & item picture. 

 

Turns up & I immediately was suspicious due to its large proportions. Looked on the back of the box & it was 1/50 scale (albeit very small text). That wasn't photographed! 

 

Do Hattons not even bother to read the actual box? Likely on its way back to Hattons. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Weeny Works

[GWR-fan]

Received this morning four train packs from the current Hattons warehouse sale.  The "Caledonian" pack was perfect.  The loco "King George VI" ran perfectly.  The Hornby "Cambrian coast" with Castle class "Nunney Castle" was also in good shape.  The Hornby "Bristolian" with King class "King Charles II" was described as minor cosmetic damage (easily fixed) and inconsistent runner.  As received the loco was dead when placed on the rails.  A little prodding and suddenly the loco sprang into life and ran smoothly.  Three wins.  Even the ex-Dapol ringfield drive in "Nunney Castle" ran well.  Alas, the fourth trainpack "The Red Dragon" did not fare so well.  Described as ran fine when last run,  the loco was a basket case of previous hamfisted work being carried out to get it to run.

 

I purchased "The Red Dragon" pack as I specificially wanted the five-pole can motor chassis to fit into the "Nunney Castle" loco from the "Cambrian Coast" pack as I have a distinct distaste for the ex-Dapol ringfield drives.  Alas, when placed the loco on the track the motor would spin with no drive to the wheels.  Immediate thought was split axle gear.  I removed the body to find a butcher had stripped the forward body mount screw hole and had inserted a brass wood screw.  Immediately obvious was that the worm gear retention saddle was loose allowing the worm to lift away from the intermediate gear,  so I thought a bullet had been dodged.  I then reassembled and tested only to find not only the final drive gear split but Billy the butcher had mangled the power pickups to each wheel and in the process had stripped all six coupling rod mount screw holes.  Basically,  what I have now is a pile of spare parts (of which some are usable) and not the "ran fine when last run" loco that I thought I was receiving.

 

I had some wins and unfortunately some losses.  Now awaiting a further three packs from the sale so fingers crossed.

[Halvarras]

Yesterday I noticed that £173 could buy you either (a) a pre-owned Hornby 'James the Red Engine' 2-6-0, or (b) a brand new Dapol O gauge 14xx 0-4-2T.

 

Gosh, that's a hard one.......🥴

[GWR-fan]

I am a sucker for the recent Hornby nostalgia trainsets,  so when Hattons had listed a pre-owned R1285M Crash Train set for less than half their discounted retail price, I felt compelled to buy it even though described as a non-runner.  A study of the supplied images showed what was possibly a customer return with which a coupling rod screw had departed causing the forward right split coupling rod to bend and jam the mechanism.  Loose coupling rod screws are still a common issue on Hornby locomotives.  Each new and pre-owned purchase I check tighten the screws before running the model.  

 

The trainset arrived this morning.  The store not only protected the original Hornby brown outer packaging by double boxing the set for shipping but also supplied the missing coupling rod screw.  Upon removing the chassis I had expected to find the coupling rod bent but it was not to be.  The rod was perfect,  so it was a simple matter of inserting the "missing" screw and test running the model.  Of the five installed coupling rod screws still insitu,  three were loose.  Performance was more than acceptable considering the generic 0-6-0 chassis that Hornby put under a lot of their Rairoad range models.  The loco showed minimal usage so the rod screw may have separated shortly after purchase, rendering it unusable.  The rest of the contents of the trainset showed no usage at all.

[Feoffee2]

I purchase quite a bit off Hattons. Recently bought a class 142 pacer and the new tool Hornby class 87 in Caledonian Sleeper livery. Both non runners. One needed a new cog which I had and one needed a blanking plate. Both for £140. A bargain if you ask me. 

[GWR-fan]

Had to laugh today as among the latest arrivals was a Graham Farish "N" scale LMS mainline corridor coach in mint condition.  Now I do not model "N" scale but I do like the old relatively inexpensive generic "OO" scale GF mainline corridor coaches and the non-corridor suburban coaches.  Once received I slightly bend the bogie sideframes inwards to enable Hornby metal wheelsets to be fitted.  I also make styrene infill pieces to cover up the underside of the coach moulding so that the underframe is one smooth piece rather than seeing the unsightly bottom of the seats in the coach moulding. 

 

Now when I purchased the apparent "N" scale coach I was not sure that it was actually "OO" scale although the pre-owned listing description did state "OO" scale.  As only one image was shown on the listing of the coach in its packaging so the type of coupler was not evident,  I did a Google image search of the supplied part number and it returned the "OO" scale coach.  The packaging shown in the description image was not the usual blister packaging but as I already had received "OO" coaches in similar box type packaging,  I convinced myself that the coach must be "OO" scale.  At least the store thought that it was "OO" scale.  What did concern me though was that the "OO" scale coach only has "LMS" on the coach side,  whereas on this coach the supplied image showed not just "LMS" but also had the LMS logo (totem?).  Well the coach is no use to me but it is a nice coach afterall and brings a smile to my face each time I look at it.  We live and (hopefully) learn.

[GWR-fan]

Purchased merely on a whim was a pre-owned Hornby R671 "Country Local" electric trainset with a crimson 3F plus two crimson shorty clerestory coaches and an oval of radius 1 steel track plus siding.  Cost was GBP30.00 (after VAT removal) and GBP25.00 for shipping.  The set was amazing,  being like a time capsule from 1986,  based on literature in the pack.  All the contents were as new unused condition.  The loco ran straight out of the box and is as smooth and as quiet as any modern day model.  It is fitted with either an X03 or X04 motor.  Normally I would shy away from these motors but I am really impressed with the loco received today.

[sandwich station]

2 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

Purchased merely on a whim was a pre-owned Hornby R671 "Country Local" electric trainset with a crimson 3F plus two crimson shorty clerestory coaches and an oval of radius 1 steel track plus siding.  Cost was GBP30.00 (after VAT removal) and GBP25.00 for shipping.  The set was amazing,  being like a time capsule from 1986,  based on literature in the pack.  All the contents were as new unused condition.  The loco ran straight out of the box and is as smooth and as quiet as any modern day model.  It is fitted with either an X03 or X04 motor.  Normally I would shy away from these motors but I am really impressed with the loco received today.

 

If the set has the right loco, it will have the cheap throw away motor in it that came after the X04 and X03 and will have a sprung rear axle, with traction tyres on the centre axle and split connecting rods.

[GWR-fan]

41 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

 

If the set has the right loco, it will have the cheap throw away motor in it that came after the X04 and X03 and will have a sprung rear axle, with traction tyres on the centre axle and split connecting rods.

 

Thankyou,  you are correct.  The loco does have the type 7 motor, sprung rear axle and traction tyres.  I should look closer next time.

[Bigskybirds]

I recently purchased a Bachmann USA locomotive that was sealed in the box described as dcc fitted and  good sealed box, the cost was £127. On receipt it was a non runner so I contacted Hattons and they gladly accepted the return. It was relisted a week later as a none runner for £148. That's £21 more but I suppose they are covering their return costs.

[Sjcm]

On 22/08/2023 at 07:03, Bigskybirds said:

I recently purchased a Bachmann USA locomotive that was sealed in the box described as dcc fitted and  good sealed box, the cost was £127. On receipt it was a non runner so I contacted Hattons and they gladly accepted the return. It was relisted a week later as a none runner for £148. That's £21 more but I suppose they are covering their return costs.

That sort of confirms how I think they operate, i.e. they price things at what they cost +  their % set profit rather than a proper valuation. Would explain the vast differences in cost for identical items you see on there sometimes, but I imagine the people selling the stuff are constantly cursing the buying department for overpaying😂

[MikeB]

9 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

That sort of confirms how I think they operate, i.e. they price things at what they cost +  their % set profit rather than a proper valuation. Would explain the vast differences in cost for identical items you see on there sometimes, but I imagine the people selling the stuff are constantly cursing the buying department for overpaying😂

But presumably with Hatton's IT capabilities, what they pay for second hand items isn't any individual's decision, but based on some sort of algorithm based on original cost, current market value, condition and demand.   

[Bigskybirds]

15 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

That sort of confirms how I think they operate, i.e. they price things at what they cost +  their % set profit rather than a proper valuation. Would explain the vast differences in cost for identical items you see on there sometimes, but I imagine the people selling the stuff are constantly cursing the buying department for overpaying😂

I did contact them to ask their reason for a none runner to be higher priced when relisted, the response was when I bought it 2 weeks ago it was on promotion,  now it is not.