BR Pullman blue & grey (reversed) livery - did any non-Pullmans get it?

[rodent279]

Apart from the prototype HST & APT-E, and the SR Brighton Belle, did any other non-Pullman carriages ever get the reversed blue & grey as applied to the mk1 & 2 loco hauled Pullmans?

[Wickham Green too]

I'm not sure I'd describe the Brighton Belle as 'non-Pullman' ............ but some of the Golden Arrow non-non-Pullman* Cars certainly carried those horrendous 'reversed' colours eventually -  and a lot of refurbished railcars wore something not entirely dissimilar.

 

* or perhaps 'former-Pullman' as they were B.R. property at the time.

[Darius43]

The Brighton Belle EMU blue grey livery wasn’t reversed.  There was an additional white stripe around the blue bit.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[rodent279]

8 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I'm not sure I'd describe the Brighton Belle as 'non-Pullman' ............ but some of the Golden Arrow non-non-Pullman* Cars certainly carried those horrendous 'reversed' colours eventually -  and a lot of refurbished railcars wore something not entirely dissimilar.

 

* or perhaps 'former-Pullman' as they were B.R. property at the time.

Do you mean this?

 

 

As Darius says, they're standard blue & grey, with a white embellishment. 

 

What I meant, but perhaps didn't express well, was did any "normal" mk1 or mk2's ever carry reversed blue & grey, for working with either the LMR  or ER Pullmans?

[rodent279]

Though in fact, it looks like at least some Golden Arrow stock did get reversed blue & grey:-

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by rodent279

[Hal Nail]

27 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

 

is that loco green? I would swear dirty blue but it has the early logo!

 

Worrying my colour perception is going!

Edited August 18, 2022 by Hal Nail

[RFS]

4 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

is that loco green? I would swear blue but it has the early logo!

 

Definitely looks green to me. 

[Nearholmer]

Those reversed GA Pullman cars look truly, deeply, madly terrible!

 

I used to see the train sometimes towards the end of its existence, and am really glad I don’t remember this.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Hal Nail]

59 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

Definitely looks green to me. 

yes was on my phone earlier but clearer on a laptop

[russ p]

What happened to the mk1 restaurant car that was painted reverse blue and grey for the prototype HST, did that operate in normal service after it was replaced by a mk3 in the set or was it scrapped 

[Wickham Green too]

45 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

... Those reversed GA Pullman cars look truly, deeply, madly terrible! ...

... but I don't think the 'non-reversed' versions with that horribly toy-like, over-heavy lining on the blue looks a lot better.

 

Back to the original question - no those reversed colours were never inflicted on Mk1 or Mk2 coaches in B.R. days ...... and I'd be very surprised if it's happened in preservation.

[BernardTPM]

There was a Mk.1 RKB (1524) so painted (and fitted with HST trailer bogies) in the prototype HST for test running before the two Mk.3 restaurant and buffet cars were ready. I don't know if it was ever use outside the HST set either before or after though I have a vague memory of seeing it on the WCML around the time, just once, from a distance. Of course, it might have been an empty stock move.

[rodent279]

27 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

There was a Mk.1 RKB (1524) so painted (and fitted with HST trailer bogies) in the prototype HST for test running before the two Mk.3 restaurant and buffet cars were ready. I don't know if it was ever use outside the HST set either before or after though I have a vague memory of seeing it on the WCML around the time, just once, from a distance. Of course, it might have been an empty stock move.

Listed in the 1982 RCTS Coaching Stock book as M1524, with B5 bogies. Couple of pics on flickr showing it in normal blue & grey on B5's in 1985, and the following year in IC livery.

Edited August 18, 2022 by rodent279

[08221]

Brilliant photo of M1524 here on traintesting.com.

 

http://www.traintesting.com/images/Buffet_car_-_Peter_Fox.JPG

 

 

[Legend]

4 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Though in fact, it looks like at least some Golden Arrow stock did get reversed blue & grey:-

 

 

 

 

 

Wow . Thanks for posting that . Thats a complete revelation to me . Never realised any  old style Pullmans got the reversed livery 

[russ p]

12 minutes ago, 08221 said:

Brilliant photo of M1524 here on traintesting.com.

 

http://www.traintesting.com/images/Buffet_car_-_Peter_Fox.JPG

 

 

 

That's got to go down as one of the worst liveries on BR, but we'll surpassed in badness once that bloke with the swirls got cracking in privatisation era!

[robertcwp]

I believe the Golden Arrow cars in the reversed grey/blue were later painted in the same style as the Brighton Belle units. At least three carried the grey/blue style.

E5013_PettsWood_GoldenArrow_22-3-69 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

[andyman7]

6 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Though in fact, it looks like at least some Golden Arrow stock did get reversed blue & grey:-

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Wow . Thanks for posting that . Thats a complete revelation to me . Never realised any  old style Pullmans got the reversed livery 

 

1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

That's got to go down as one of the worst liveries on BR, but we'll surpassed in badness once that bloke with the swirls got cracking in privatisation era!

The reversed livery was supposed to be applied to 'classic' Pullman coaches but as noted it looked so horrendous it was quickly dropped for the sort-of-lined blue and grey applied to the Brighton Belle and remaining Golden Arrow cars.

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Those reversed GA Pullman cars look truly, deeply, madly terrible!

 

I used to see the train sometimes towards the end of its existence, and am really glad I don’t remember this.

 

 

Just goes to prove without doubt, that blue/grey was NOT the worst colour scheme ever!

[Flying Pig]

3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

The reversed livery was supposed to be applied to 'classic' Pullman coaches but as noted it looked so horrendous it was quickly dropped for the sort-of-lined blue and grey applied to the Brighton Belle and remaining Golden Arrow cars.

 

The fundamental problem being that, stripped of their Edwardian makeup, the traditional Pullmanns were pig ugly slab-sided vehicles.  Reverse blue-grey looked very stylish on the right stock.

[33C]

I like blue and grey. The pullmans carry it off quite well.

[dibber25]

I remember the reversed grey/blue Pullmans that were done for the 'Golden Arrow' and how the Southern's revision of them went down with at least one member of the BR Design Panel! Furious wouldn't cover it. It has to be remembered that this was THE CORPORATE IMAGE, standardised branding to be applied to everything regardless of whether or not it was appropriate (think horrible straight lines between blue and yellow on round-nosed 'Warships'). That the Southern not only changed it but re-introduced lining and a non-standard font, went down like lead balloon in an era when 'good design' was more about avant-garde style and uniformity than practicality. I always thought they got away with  reversed blue grey on the Met-Camm Pullmans but definitely not on older cars or the erstwhile 'Blue Pullman' DMUs where the grey looked insipid and was allowed to get filthy - something which the old Pullman Car Company would not have tolerated. (CJL)

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

... the traditional Pullmans were pig ugly slab-sided vehicles. ....

... when built or modified with flush aluminium panelling post-war.

[rodent279]

On 18/08/2022 at 17:55, 33C said:

I like blue and grey. The pullmans carry it off quite well.

As referred to elsewhere in the class 800 thread, liveries are a personal thing. I quite like reversed blue and grey, but I agree that it looks a bit stark on the pre-war Pullmans.  To my eye, it just needs breaking up with a bit of lining, like on normal blue and grey. It seemed to work well enough on the LMR & ECML Pullmans,  and especially well on the prototype HST. 

[Bittern]

For some reason they appear to have omitted the white line around the windows on the reversed-livery Golden Arrow cars (unlike the Mk2 pullmans), which makes  the livery even worse.