Thinking about 3D printing. Where to start?

[nhdesigns]

So basically I’ve been thinking about 3D printing and have seen some introductory 3D printers at a fair price for me. 
 

I’ve done 3D modelling while I was at university so got experience with 3D design but don’t have any when it comes to 3D printing. 
 

I was wondering if anyone can help me out or have any suggestions or advice. 
 

Also wondering what sort of software is the easiest to work with as I’ve never done anything like this before.
 

I don’t plan on doing anything big and fancy like parts for trains in the form of locomotive parts or parts for rolling stock and the like.

I’m looking more at doing small scenic items and detailing parts such as interior items for shops and the like.

 

I model in OO gauge and model more of the urban sort of aspect of the hobby.

 

I don’t intend to have anything over the top with a lot of complexity. I’ve already seen one or two around £75-£90 that I can see should be okay with what I have in mind to do.

[PaulaDoesTrains]

You need to decide which printing technology you're going to use. Before you make your final decision I strongly suggest you look the Piccadilly Model Railways channel on YouTube  and see what John has produced with a fairly basic FDM printer.

[nightstar.train]

So the two main sorts of printers you'd be looking at are FDM (fused deposition method) and SLA (stereolithography). 

 

FDM - This are often called filament printers. You buy plastic on a large roll and this fed into a hot printehead. The print head moves around in the X and Y direction and applies the plastic to the print bed. After each layer either the bed moves down or the head moves up and the next layer is added. It's probably easier to use than an SLA printer and requires far less post processing. It's generally fine to use in your office (although can be a bit noisy). The drawbacks are the resolution, it is not as good as an SLA printer and will not produce as fine detail. FDM printers generally have a much larger print volume than SLA printers (at entry level, large SLA printers are £££).

 

SLA - Often called resin printers. These use a vat of resin that is reactive to UV light. There is a screen under the vat that creates a mask and blocks the UV from selected areas. The build plate lowers into the vat and is exposed to the UV light and a layer of the print attaches to it. The plate then peals the layer off the bottom of the vat and moves up for the next layer. They have a much higher resolution than FDM printers and can produce much finer detail. They are ideal for printing things like figures and small detail parts. Downsides though are the resins. They are generally very smelly and mildly toxic. You need to handle them with gloves and possibly a mask and keep the printer in a room you won't be in, or a vented cupboard. After printing you need to wash the print in alcohol to remove uncured resin, and then further expose the print to UV to fully harden it. 

 

Both have pluses and minuses. A lot of people end up with both! As to good entry level FDM printers the Ender 3 is a very popular model and has a lot of support online. Prusa are also well regarded, although more expensive. For resin printers the Elegoo Mars series are also very popular, as are the Anycubic photon. For both of those resin printers they also make wash and cure units which are very useful for post processing the resin print. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by nightstar.train

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

So the two main sorts of printers you'd be looking at are FDM (fused deposition method) and SLA (stereolithography). 

 

FDM - This are often called filament printers. You buy plastic on a large roll and this fed into a hot printhead. The print head moves around in the X and Y direction and applies the plastic to the print bed. After each layer either the bed moves down or the head moves up and the next layer is added. It's probably easier to use than an SLA printer and requires far less post processing. It's generally fine to use in your office (although can be a bit noisy). The drawbacks are the resolution, it is not as good as an SLA printer and will not produce as fine detail. FDM printers generally have a much larger print volume than SLA printers (at entry level, large SLA printers are £££).

 

SLA - Often called resin printers. These use a vat of resin that is reactive to UV light. There is a screen under the vat that creates a mask and blocks the UV from selected areas. The build plate lowers into the vat and is exposed to the UV light and a layer of the print attaches to it. The plate then peals the layer off the bottom of the vat and moves up for the next layer. They have a much higher resolution than FDM printers and can produce much finer detail. They are ideal for printing things like figures and small detail parts. Downsides though are the resins. They are generally very smelly and mildly toxic. You need to handle them with gloves and possibly a mask and keep the printer in a room you won't be in, or a vented cupboard. After printing you need to wash the print in alcohol to remove uncured resin, and then further expose the print to UV to fully harden it. 

 

Both have pluses and minuses. A lot of people end up with both! As to good entry level FDM printers the Ender 3 is a very popular model and has a lot of support online. Prusa are also well regarded, although more expensive. For resin printers the Elegoo Mars series are also very popular, as are the Anycubic photon. For both of those resin printers they also make wash and cure units which are very useful for post processing the resin print. 

 

Excellent summary.

 

A couple of extra points about SLA printers:

Because they are printed in layers, an entire plateful of items takes no longer than 1.

You can get water soluble resins now. Easier than those which need IPA to clean them but some have claimed that the finished product can be brittle. I have not found this but the technology is likely to improve (until someone identifes the chemical as toxic & gets it banned).

 

I know of 3 different packages for design, all online: TinkerCad, Sketchup & Fusion 360. I believe TinkerCad is like building with Lego on the screen. Sketchup allows you to produce 2d images then extract them into 3d objects. From what I have seen, Fusion 360 can produce more complex shapes but may take a little longer to learn.

 

I started off with a simple requirement: To consistently produce window frames. I had tried making them from plastruct but could not achieve any consistency. After learning what I needed to for those, it became another method of producing objects: coach seating, station lamps, MU cables & more window frames.

 

[PaulaDoesTrains]

11 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

 From what I have seen, Fusion 360 can produce more complex shapes but may take a little longer to learn.

 

 

 

It can indeed but unless the OP wants to model something like a diesel loco the ability to model such complex shapes may not be needed. I've some fairly complex parts such as overhead gantries modelled in TinkerCAD.

[Giles]

There are two separate elements. One is the drawing package, and one is the printer. 

 

My own preference is Design Spark Mechanical,  which is a free download from RS Components, and importantly,  there are plenty of tutorial videos to be found on YouTube to help you along. Although I had done a lot of 2D Autocad, I had never done any 3D work, and initially found it a bit difficult to draw anything sensible. However, I quite quickly got the hang of how different 3D is, and am much more fluent. I like Design Spark as it is a free program that doesn't "phone home" or limit its use.

 

I have an FDM printer which I used for making point motors, levers, mechanical elements that are not aesthetic and require strength, and a Mars 2 Pro for actual model work, which can produce exquisite detail. I think if one is using a printer for making models and components, one would get frustrated with filament printing quite quickly, now near injection moulding quality is possible with resin printing.

 

Peckett drawing underway in Design Spark 

 

As printed on the Mars 2 Pro in 7mm scale

 

 

[nightstar.train]

46 minutes ago, Giles said:

I think if one is using a printer for making models and components, one would get frustrated with filament printing quite quickly, now near injection moulding quality is possible with resin printing.

 

It depends on what you are modelling. I agree that resin printers can produce fantastic detail, but FDM printers can as well. You just have to accept and know their limitations. Attached are 2 photos of a stable building i printed. This is printed at "standard quality" with a .2mm layer height. I've included a rather cruel close up, but as you can see you can differentiate individual bricks and roof tiles. I would certainly agree that resin is better for fine detail parts and people, but FDM is great for buildings. The stables are by Mikesrailway on thingiverse. He has produced a lot of lovely buildings that all print very well on an FDM printer.  https://www.thingiverse.com/mikesrailway/designs

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by nightstar.train

[monkeysarefun]

 For your stated aim of small detailed parts, I'd go resin. This was printed on an original Anycubic Photon a couple of years ago - new machines have 4K to 8K screens and other improvements  in the years since so reprinted on my latest printer I'd assume this to be even more detailed. (Its sustained some battle damage from rolling around on my desk here, I see from checking the photo  the guy in the bottom panel has lost his head!)

 

 

 

Some people mention  smell as a reason to reconsider resin printers but I've never noticed anything too offensive, certainly no more than enamel paints, various glues and fillers etc  that we also use as part of the hobby.

 

The main issue is learning some of the gotchas - working out the best orientationin order to bring out the best details or smoothest panels, remembering drain holes in hollowed parts, being aware of the risk of suction forces when printing larger sections flat to the bed and so on but experience reduces these.

 

As a drawing tool I use Sketchup, the free 2017 Make version. Starting from zero 3D experience, over the last 2 years I've progressed to being able to draw  pretty much everything to produce a complete building, and recently  some files of Australian cars that aren't available commercially.

 

As a bonus you can run the files through a rendering package to make a cool screensaver!

 

[njee20]

I use Fusion 360, I followed Lars Christensen’s videos, which helped. Carl White has a series about using Fusion specifically for railway modelling which looks good (I’ve never watched in detail I’ll confess). There are many other packages out there, personally if you’re learning something afresh I’d sooner learn something capable of more, if you exceed the limits of FreeCAD/TinkerCAD you’re starting afresh. I tried multiples when I started up, including the above, Sketch Up and Shapr3D (on iPad, which was good, but the free version very limiting); I found Fusion the easiest to get to grips with. 

The whole FDM/resin thing has been done. I started with resin, then added an FDM printer. I still use the resin printers far more often than the FDM, but it’s nice to have both. Id definitely start with resin if I were you. The resins aren’t as nasty as some will have you think, just be careful.

 

 I wouldn’t buy a £75 printer. That’ll probably be an FDM kit, and potentially a  lot of hassle! Part of the ‘fun’ with FDM printers is upgrading and customising the hardware. That said, I bought a Voxelab Proxima resin printer from Flashforge for £105. It’s ok, not amazing though.

 

I personally would avoid the water washable resins, they’re highly prone to failing unless you thoroughly clean and cure inside all prints (if they’re hollow). Normal resin is far more stable. You’re also left with some unpleasant water you can’t then dispose of as well, you can’t put it down the drain as it’s toxic to aquatic life. I personally wash my prints now in two tubs of acetone, which I find more effective than IPA. 
 

The Mars 3 is a great printer, or the Saturn 2 if you want a bit more volume. Admittedly both fall some way above the £75-90 price point you cite; but if you want to stick cheap I’d still look for something like a cheap Mars 2, as they’re being discontinued. I wouldn’t buy second hand. 
 

You can print buildings in resin too! This is a rough test of a station building in N. 
 

[CazRail]

As far as software goes, I also use DesignSpark Mechanical. My reason is I got used to SolidWorks during my time in school and college, and I find it is very similar. I also find it's easy to use, especially if youre following an engineering drawing, as when you draw a shape, you can enter the dimensions you want, likewise when extruding a shape.

[simonmcp]

1 hour ago, CazRail said:

As far as software goes, I also use DesignSpark Mechanical. My reason is I got used to SolidWorks during my time in school and college, and I find it is very similar. I also find it's easy to use, especially if youre following an engineering drawing, as when you draw a shape, you can enter the dimensions you want, likewise when extruding a shape.

Do you know if it is 'Parametric', that is, can you go back and alter dimensions and all the elements will rearrange themselves to take account of the changes? An example of a Parametric' program is FreeCAD.

[CazRail]

To be honest, Im not sure. I've never really gone back to change any dimensions with it, as Ive mostly been working off engineering drawings so using the given dimensions.

[njee20]

DesignSpark is direct modelling rather than parametric I believe. 

[The Fatadder]

I am using Fusion 360 (with the free licence) along with an Anycubic Proton Mono (2k), I started with some experience of 3d cad (at university 15 years prior) and more recent experience of 2d cad.  Before ordering my printer I decided to download Fusion and sit and work through the first 10 or so episodes of Carl's very good youtube series.  This will teach you enough of the software to handle most things (at which point I drew up my GWR coach details and 1990s structure gauging train optical coach, then got the printer ordered.   My logic was that it was better to ensure that I was happy drawing the sorts of things that I was going to want to print before spending the money on the printer.

 

My only regret is that I didnt buy a bigger printer, I had completely under estimated  just how capable the printer actually is.   My original intention was that I would only be using it for printing small detail parts, however I soon ended up designing much larger components for full size wagons.  I now have a couple of prints (such as the JNA ballast wagons) for which printing on my machine would take a couple of days (but would be a lot quicker on a bigger machine).  So at some point I am going to have to upgrade...

[njee20]

Even at a 0.02mm layer height how is it anything approaching 2 days? That seems mad. 

[Alan Kettlewell]

I've recently dipped my toe in the water.  I opted for a used Elegoo Mars resin printer I bought from eBay for under £100.  Also I bought the Anycubic washing/curing machine.  For software I downloaded the free verson of Fusion 360 and followed Lars' tutorials on YouTube - which was quite a steep learning curve.

 

So far, I've only used it for printing small accessories eg station furniture, suitcases, barrels, ridging tiles for roofs, fence posts but the potential is there for further use as and when I get around to it. 

 

To avoid too much self-tuition on 3D CAD, you can also download some items free, or for a small cost, from sites such as ThingyVerse.

 

I find it's an interested further aspect to our great hobby.

 

Cheers ... Alan

    

[AndyID]

You can make some quite detailed prints with FDM. It has the advantage that it's a good bit stronger than resin.

 

A couple of 00 track examples.

 

 

[martin_wynne]

On 12/09/2022 at 14:08, Giles said:

There are two separate elements. One is the drawing package, and one is the printer. 

 

My own preference is Design Spark Mechanical,  which is a free download from RS Components, and importantly,  there are plenty of tutorial videos to be found on YouTube to help you along. Although I had done a lot of 2D Autocad, I had never done any 3D work, and initially found it a bit difficult to draw anything sensible. However, I quite quickly got the hang of how different 3D is, and am much more fluent. I like Design Spark as it is a free program that doesn't "phone home" or limit its use.

 

I have an FDM printer which I used for making point motors, levers, mechanical elements that are not aesthetic and require strength, and a Mars 2 Pro for actual model work, which can produce exquisite detail. I think if one is using a printer for making models and components, one would get frustrated with filament printing quite quickly, now near injection moulding quality is possible with resin printing.

 

Peckett drawing underway in Design Spark 

 

As printed on the Mars 2 Pro in 7mm scale

 

 

 

RS have today released DesignSpark Mechanical 6, which has been a long time coming. There are new paid-for versions with increased functions, but the basic program remains free.

 

The paid-for versions are free until the end of March, i.e. you get 2 months free.

 

More info and download:

 

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/subscriptions-pricing-page

 

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-software

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[PhilH]

1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

RS have today released DesignSpark Mechanical 6, which has been a long time coming. There are new paid-for versions with increased functions, but the basic program remains free.

 

The paid-for versions are free until the end of March, i.e. you get 2 months free.

 

More info and download:

 

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/subscriptions-pricing-page

 

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/mechanical-software

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Not available for Mac unfortunately…shame.

[Giles]

Design Spark Mechanical come to life....

 

 

[Junctionmad]

I use fusion 360 acedemic license I find it the  best all round 3D design. Steep learning curve. 
 

I use both FDM and resin and have just ordered a 8K resin unit. Both have peculiar strengths and applications. 
 

well worth the learning curve, in fact I now use CNC in many parts of layout and yea k building as I also have cnc milling  and turning capability 

 

here’s my 3D servo assisted lever frame design. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Junctionmad

[ikcdab]

Another fusion 360 fan here. I previously struggled with sketchup and tinkercad but I find fusion superior in every aspect. Maybe is me, but I didnt find it that difficult. I watched a couple of YouTube videos and I was drawing things very quickly.  Still learning new things though.

Mine is paired to a elegoo Saturn whjich I have far more problems with.

[Welly]

I bought myself a Creality Ender 3 version 2 recently (a filament type) as I don't relish the thought of handling smelly, sticky messy liquid UV cured resin!

 

Came across this video of someone assembling and setting up a Creality Ender 3 version 2 printer and adjusting it - I have assembled mine today and wished I saw this before I started assembly! Never mind, I can easily loosen a few bolts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gokN9xNG94U

 

I have seen an filiment Ultimaker in use at work and it cost £8000 for the professional version! (Can't remember the model but it is fully enclosed with filtered ventilation and filament storage with automatic loading)

[Arun Sharma]

On 17/02/2023 at 19:25, ikcdab said:

Another fusion 360 fan here. I previously struggled with sketchup and tinkercad but I find fusion superior in every aspect. Maybe is me, but I didnt find it that difficult. I watched a couple of YouTube videos and I was drawing things very quickly.  Still learning new things though.

Mine is paired to a elegoo Saturn whjich I have far more problems with.

Really - what sort of problems do you have with the Saturn? I have a Mars 2+ Pro as well as a Saturn S and they seem pretty robust and straightforward.

[ikcdab]

1 hour ago, Arun Sharma said:

Really - what sort of problems do you have with the Saturn? I have a Mars 2+ Pro as well as a Saturn S and they seem pretty robust and straightforward.

See here.  Any advice gratefully received.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/176833-resin-printing-problems-what-am-i-doing-wrong/page/2/#comment-5100454