Age and the small elephant in the room

[PhilH]

It can be imagined that a fair few of us are getting near or even past our sell by dates. As one of those I was reading Graham Muz’s review of the soon to be available Bachmann coaches and noted in that they were first announced in 2018, so a four year gestation period.  So a scenario and a question….
 

There’s a loco, for instance, that is announced that you have been waiting to be available for a long time. You know it’s going to be popular and is likely to sell out when available which might not be, as the coaches mentioned above, for 4 years. You also know that time is not on your side so do you order and hope for the best or accept that perhaps it’s time to bite the bullet and accept that you just might not be around when the project comes to fruition and pass up on it.

 

I hope this is not considered too maudlin a subject but suspect for some of us, myself included, it’s a bit of a dilemma.

 

[AyJay]

I imagine others get deluged with spam for fashion, flash cars, under 30's romantic holidays, or the latest must-have's?

I get spam for Over-50's life insurance, Prostate health, Retirement homes and Funeral plan's!

Say's it all really!

Phil, you cannot take a penny of it with you.  So long as you are meeting your financial commitments to your family, then I say go ahead and order whatever you want.

I have spent a big chunk of my life having to do without.  Now I can enjoy my 'grey pound' and The Wife has instructions that if she outlives me, then if nobody wants my layout, she is to turn to a trader in the magazine.  Under no circumstances is she to call in a 'house clearance' vulture.

I'd like to think that in 50 years time, my nice model buildings will be featured in 'The Repair Shed'.

[Paul H Vigor]

At this time in life, nothing ventured, nothing gained! If we like it, we order it. If it arrives before we pop our clogs, all well and good - so long as we get a little time to play with it before we shuffle off this mortal coil! Suspect I've still got a few years to go, but these days, who knows?

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, PhilH said:

It can be imagined that a fair few of us are getting near or even past our sell by dates. As one of those I was reading Graham Muz’s review of the soon to be available Bachmann coaches and noted in that they were first announced in 2018, so a four year gestation period.  So a scenario and a question….
 

There’s a loco, for instance, that is announced that you have been waiting to be available for a long time. You know it’s going to be popular and is likely to sell out when available which might not be, as the coaches mentioned above, for 4 years. You also know that time is not on your side so do you order and hope for the best or accept that perhaps it’s time to bite the bullet and accept that you just might not be around when the project comes to fruition and pass up on it.

 

I hope this is not considered too maudlin a subject but suspect for some of us, myself included, it’s a bit of a dilemma.

 

I guess the other point is: after four years you might have forgotten (a 'senior moment'?) you placed a pre-order in the first place? The arrival of such a model, seemingly out-of-the-blue, might be a pleasant surprise, or you might suspect the presence of a lurking, model railway-minded stalker!?

[Andy Hayter]

Your age is immaterial.  You might be knocked down by a bus tomorrow - whether you are 25 or 80 years old. 

 

Grasp the moment and do what brings you pleasure - now (anticipation) and the future (receipt of the model).

[The Johnster]

Carpe Deum, it is later than you think.

 

So, yes, if you can afford it, don't hesitate, order it!  Many of you will remember my saga with the Bachmann 94xx, which is an illustration of exactly this problem.  I wanted a 94xx, and for various reasons not all of which they were directly culpable for, the arrival of this loco, announced in 2015 and expected at various dates from Q2 2016 ending up with Q1 2020, with regular increases in RRP as well, kept getting put back repeatedly.  I am 'on the home straight' in terms of age, and not in a position to be confident of my future fiduciary security (the result of having to start again after an expensive and very unpleasant divorce, not seeking sympathy and I;m by no means the only one to suffer in this way, just explaining that my disposable income was not, between 2015 and 2020, reliably predictable to the extent that I could commit to the cost of the new loco.  It is more predictable now, but not in a good way...

 

Had Bachmann had access to a better crystal ball and been able to state in 2015 that the gestation would take 5 years, this would have been less of a problem for me or anyone in a similar situation (truth is, of course, we can't afford railway modelling and shouldn't involve ourselves in it, but you can imagine my stance on that point, which is to refer you back to my opening comment!).  Problem was that, if Baccy predicted the model becoming available at date x for price y, I would budget my limited disposable to build reserves to buy it at date x, but then they would post date z, 6 months later than date x.  The denial of resources to other projects on the layout for such a long period was unacceptable and the saved money would be diverted to something I could have now on the basis that the extra time could be used to replace the depleted 94xx fund.

 

But then a price increase would be announced, so the whole funding thing would be more difficult; oh well, such is life, suck it up buttercup, it's a hobby not your rent.  Then the release date would be put back again, and the money diverted to different projects again, in a sort of cyclic carry-on which only ended when I finally got my hands on the beast, discounted by £25 from RRP by Rails of Sheffield, yay Rails of Sheffield.

 

Now, of course, a more disciplined approach on my part would have avoided much of the grief, but the real world doesn't work like that, or at least mine doesn't.  The RTR world doesn't work the way it did in my youth either; had I wanted to save up for, say an Airfix Castle, I could have done so at my own pace knowing that the model was in production and likely to remain in production for a considerable continuous time (even afte Airfix ceased trading, in the event).  But the RTR boys started to have their models made in China in the 90s, and the Chinese production model is geared to batches.  Hence products are available for a year or so, less if they are popular and sell out quickly, and are then out of production for 4 or 5 years until the company consider there is enough pent-up demand to go for another production run, if they can book a production facility slot, that is...  The ongoing increase in prices, accelerated by world events and inflation, does not help much either; my advice if you want something or think you might want it in the future is to buy now before the price goes up, if it's available, and of course if you can afford it, which is where my 94xx story came in!  Those of us who have less disposable to, er, dispose of on our hobby just have to accept that the revolution is not going to overthrow capitalism any time soon (and as we've pointed out, any time much later is academic as far as us oldies are concerned) and cut our cloth accordingly, which is not always as easy as it sounds in a world that has become dependently addicted to 'bright shiny new thing make it all better'.

 

We are, I would say, reaping what we in the Western world sowed to some extent.  Production shifted to China 30 years ago in order to exploit a subservient and placid workforce that would work for what you paid it and join a waiting list for a Flying Pigeon bicycle, and they turned out ever more realistic and better performing product we demanded at insanely low prices.  Now, times are hard worldwide, and the Chinese workforce have had enough of being underpaid and taken for granted; they want widescreen tvs, a family car, 2 holidays a year, and nice places to live with nice things to put in them and nice clothes to wear, and who can blame them; they've worked hard and earned it; I for one don't begrudge it them! 

 

But prices of new models are now rising much faster than my pensions, and I am grateful that I have already bought a good proportion of the big ticket items my layout needed.  RRPs for locos and some rolling stock are now beyond my means, though on that point I have never, since re-entering the hobby in 2016, paid full RRP for any new loco.  Of a fleet of 14, 5 were bought brand new at discounts, the rest secondhand, and these are relatively small tank locos, not big express or heavy freight beasties.

 

Cwmdimbath is my last layout, designed and conceptualised to keep me satisfied enough to avoid wanting another one in terms of both operating and modelling projects.  I was 64 years old when I started it, and it has been fully operational for nearly 5 years; I am nowhere near bored with it, there's years of modelling projects to play with, and I regard it as a success, the best layout I've ever had.  When I started, I worked to the principle that I had 20 years of life left with luck, though I'd aim for 30 (my dad pegged it at 94 and I want to beat him so I can stand on his grave and ask him what he thinks of that, sonny!).  So long as I can hold off going gaga or major health issues, I'm fairly hopeful but not banking on anything; as I said I'm on the home straight...

[Michael Hodgson]

10 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Your age is immaterial.  You might be knocked down by a bus tomorrow - whether you are 25 or 80 years old. 

 

A bus?? 

Oh yes, that's right.  I'm old enough to remember when we had buses.

[Barclay]

All these new releases seem to be in such limited supply when they finally do get released that if it doesn't turn up until after you have shuffled, your beneficiaries could probably sell it at a profit anyway!

 

So, order it for sure, or build a kit instead...

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Go for it.

 

I work on the basis that my plans will succeed.  If something happens to disrupt things then I will deal with that when it does, otherwise nothing would ever get planned.

 

 

 

 

[MyRule1]

Whatever your view on any possible/probable afterlife I am fairly certain FOMO does not survive death. So the main worry is that that your executors have a list of pre orders and how to cancel then, this will only apply if the means of payment you used is still active. For example for for a number of reasons some of my orders are on the card with my wife's name on it.

 

Having had to dealt with the costs of my mother's care I don't recall "have you any pre orders for model railways" on the list of things we had to declare!

[PhilH]

Thanks for the replies. Another (random) thought occurred to me…must make work for retailers trying to track down who’s still going on their 5 year old preorder list!

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

For example for for a number of reasons some of my orders are on the card with my wife's name on it.

 That's good organisation - getting the wife to buy your model railway stuff !

[Huw Griffiths]

7 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

For example for a number of reasons some of my orders are on the card with my wife's name on it.

 

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 That's good organisation - getting the wife to buy your model railway stuff !

 

Perhaps.

 

Perhaps not.

 

Some people might wonder why I'm making such a, seemingly vague, comment. Well, not all of us are in relationships / families, in which our hobbies (including railway modelling) are shared or willingly accepted by "significant others".

 

A number of people whose hobbies are viewed with (at best) thinly veiled contempt have devised ways of getting in "essential supplies" unseen - often right under partners' / relatives' noses.

 

For reasons like this, I could imagine a number of people really wanting to be able to continue using real banknotes when purchasing hobby stuff - this offers an element of "deniability" which cards don't offer - which definitely wouldn't be available if someone else "holds the purse strings".

 

Anyway, I could imagine some "significant others" preferring a different sort of "deniability" - based around the ability to deny certain people the opportunity to purchase models, kits and other supplies.

 

Even if not actually prevented from purchasing supplies, "awkward questions" might sometimes strip away at least some of the enjoyment hobbies should offer ... .

 

[96701]

Get what you want while you can. It will be very small beer to those left behind as to whether or not a loco turns up, and who knows when your demise will occur? This puts it into perspective for me.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/oct/02/paul-sartin-obituary

[Bernard Lamb]

I can't belive that anybody is bothered.

At age 79 I shall keep on ordering models as they are announced if they fit in with my plans.

Some will be of use when they eventually turn up, others will cause me to wonder why I ever wanted them in the first place.

Funnily I did make a list last week of what I had on preorder, as these days several items are on direct order rather than from my regulaar retailers.

Several will probably not arrive until after my card is out of date so I will have a chance to change my mind. I try not to deal with people who want a deposit or payment in advance.

Thoughts of what happens when I am gone is not going to cause me any loss of sleep.

Those that survive me can sort out the mess.😀

Bernard

[Mike Storey]

That's all fair enough, but I have a different dilemma. I have been collecting stuff for a specific layout for many, many years and have almost everything I need for my layout, when I can get around to building it (having concentrated on a garden, live steam jobby for the past 7 years). I have awaited older age to start an indoor layout, given it is increasingly hard to maintain the outdoor one. But I realise many of my locos, wagons and some units have been "bettered" by more recent releases. Even when I can afford them, I have shied away, as I wonder whether they will actually give me more pleasure than that which I already have.

 

I certainly held back on sound chips, because I never thought they were quite good enough, but now, with better speakers and recordings, many are quite brilliant. But it will cost quite a few hundred sovs to buy all that I might need.

 

I guess it is a matter of what you can put up with.

 

[PaulRhB]

12 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

held back on sound chips, because I never thought they were quite good enough, but now, with better speakers and recordings, many are quite brilliant.

Ultimately it’s not your problem as you’d be gone and having helped dispose of a couple of friends collections I can vouch for the fact it got one thru the latter stages of his illness and a less than a year prediction turned into five. From that I’d say keep going and enjoying it as it can make a big difference to your and family around you in dealing with the end because you go happy 😉

 

Just tell family which mates to ask sort it out and keep going. 

[Michael Hodgson]

On 06/10/2022 at 19:52, PhilH said:

It can be imagined that a fair few of us are getting near or even past our sell by dates.

 

Speak for yourself!   As it happens I bought some paint in a rattle can this evening and was asked if I could prove I was over 16.  Showed her my bus pass!

[Colin_McLeod]

I can just imagine the epitaph:

 

"Should have ordered that loco"

[Northmoor]

On 07/10/2022 at 20:36, PaulRhB said:

Just tell family which mates to ask sort it out and keep going. 

Actually this is very important, something probably not enough of us do and I need to do myself.  In addition to a will, we should leave instructions to our families/beneficiaries as to HOW our collections should be disposed of.  We should even consider how any layouts built into the home should be dismantled and how.

Crucially, unless they don't want more than 5% of the true value, do not employ a house clearance company that advertises in the local paper with only a mobile number.  There are more than a few parasites out there who prey on the bereaved.

[Dave John]

Hmm. 

 

Is it actually important? One day I shall be a dead modelmaker. I have enjoyed building many models. I have enjoyed sharing my experiences with friends via visits and the internet.  That matters. 

 

But I know that I might be turfed out of here in which case Kelvinbank will go. My rearguard action is to scratchbuild in 1/50 scale. A pic. 

 

 

The problem is that a loco like that is essentially worthless. RTR in a box might have some value but the rest is just some old guy playing with toy trains. 

 

Instructions ? Nobody has taken a scrap of notice of instructions I have written for stacks of electrical systems I have written during my long engineering life, the idea of anyone taking notice of  instructions for disposal of my "toy trains" when I'm dead is just unrealistic. 

 

Sorry to be brutal, but thats life. 

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

I think we all have to accept that the value of our toys will be less than we have paid for them.  The trick is to identify how to maximise the income with the commensurate effort.

 

In the case of your 1:50 models, I would have thought an auction house with pedigree is selling models would probably be a good disposal route.

 

As to instructions, well make it easy for those dealing with the estate and they may well take some notice (though I do take your point about people not paying attention).   In fact make it difficult for them not to do as you would wish.

 

My own case is complicated because executors will need to deal with authorities in 3 languages because of my somewhat complex working life.  I have therefore prepared a death file.  In it are letters to all authorities, pension providers, insurance companies etc.  Each written in the appropriate language with only the date of my death and the date of sending to fill in.  Pre-addressed envelopes are included - but they can put their own stamps on!  Insurance policies are filed with the letter to that insurance company - so difficult to ignore the file and its contents.

 

Included in the file are letters to appropriate potential disposal companies asking for offers on a list that is easily printed out from the computer.  [ I know someone will say, sell it all on Ebay, but that is where commensurate effort comes in.   I really cannot see next of kin spending months listing items on Ebay.]

 

So  by careful planning perhaps all is not lost.

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

I would like to see my models continuing in use.  Even if some middle man makes a profit, that would be preferable to them ending up in a skip. (Especially my older Hornby Dublo models)

 

My family know the approximate value but I am leaving the problem of disposal with them. After all, they will have the proceeds of disposal as compensation for their efforts.

[HonestTom]

I'm firmly in the "well, you might get hit by a bus tomorrow" camp. If experience has taught me anything, it's that life can blindside you and it's pointless to work on the basis that fate will definitely do this or that. One might similarly ask, how do I know I won't have a sudden expense that will make this an unwise purchase? How do I know I won't have to move house, drastically reducing my modelling space? How do I know I won't suffer a debilitating injury or illness? There are hundreds of variables in life.

 

I prefer to be optimistic. The real question is, therefore, is this purchase going to bring me enough joy to make it worth the wait and the money?

Edited October 10, 2022 by HonestTom

[Geep7]

I'm almost into my mid-40's, and over the summer I was blindsided by a very unexpected spell in hospital and an operation for something which could have been a lot more serious if it had been left. Up until that point, apart from having had Asthma since childhood, my health has been pretty good.

 

It's kind of changed my outlook on things, and I agree with HonestTom above. You may as well do it now, or you'll never do it. Make the most of what you have now, as whilst it may appear that our destiny is in our own hands, it very rarely ever is. Just look at the current events being reported in the news, who knows what it just around the corner.