Hornby announce TT:120

[MartinRS]

3 hours ago, PeterStiles said:

Well, that first match, the wiki article has a "British TT:120" section talking about PECO and Hornby

 

I wonder who created that new paragraph on Wikipedia?  ;-)

[adrianmc]

16 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Mine hasn't arrived yet (posties just been) although I joined on the 10th.  Perhaps Hornby are sending them out in alphabetical order...

 

 

 

I joined on the 11th.

[D9020 Nimbus]

17 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

True, but it didn't stop Fleischmann and Rivarossi having a dabble in OO and they produced some nice items. Unfortunately, they adopted different compromises to "our" manufacturers, so their models were out-of-proportion for 4mm scale. 

HO not OO, and they were also out of proportion for 3.5mm scale. The Fleischmann "Warship" was too high and too wide — perhaps not too surprising given many of their German models were 1:82; Rivarossi's Royal Scot and coaches were 3.75mm scale, much like British Trix when it was still produced by Trix.

[irishmail]

I joined on the 10th as well,  maybe delayed in the post with the Royal mail strikes recently.

[MarkSG]

9 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

 

I wonder who created that new paragraph on Wikipedia?  ;-)

 

The section on British TT:120 was added in June, shortly after the original announcements by Peco, Heljan and Gaugemaster. That section was added by a contributor who appears to specialise in updating Wikipedia articles about model railways. A short, and rather ungrammatical, sentence about Hornby was added in October by someone who appears not to have edited Wikipedia before, and then expanded and cleaned up by a different contributor who is a long-standing regular contributor. Since thenn, the British TT:120 section has been updated several times by several different contributors.

[jjb1970]

Fleischmann and Rivarossi's excursions into British outline were very nicely done by the standards of the time but expensive and limited. They all look rather crude today but that's hardly surprising or a cause for criticism given their age and the paradigm shift in British outline over the last 30 years or so.

I think it is something to celebrate that British outline finally has an RTR option which is the same scale as international models and with the correct gauge for scale. How much crossover there will be between British and overseas I don't know but at least the option is there now.

The main complaints I see here and elsewhere still seem to be from disgruntled OO and N enthusiasts who don't like the idea of a company making models in another scale. My answer is still that if people want more OO and N models then rather than complain about TT they should look to manufacturers to do more in OO and N. Actually, OO modellers have never had it so good and really can't complain. Things may be less rosy in N but Rapido and Revolution are doing some very nice models and Farish and Dapol are still active in the scale. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

4 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Though were the Brit and Brush 2 introduced around the same time in both 00 and TT? 

They were — TT first — but the TT version had disc headcodes and the OO one, D5572, headcode boxes.

[MartinRS]

15 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

The section on British TT:120 was added in June, shortly after the original announcements by Peco, Heljan and Gaugemaster. That section was added by a contributor who appears to specialise in updating Wikipedia articles about model railways. A short, and rather ungrammatical, sentence about Hornby was added in October by someone who appears not to have edited Wikipedia before, and then expanded and cleaned up by a different contributor who is a long-standing regular contributor. Since thenn, the British TT:120 section has been updated several times by several different contributors.

 

I can honestly say I didn't create the Hornby section, not that it being ungrammatical would rule me out ! It could do with expanding though. By create I meant start the TT:120 section. I has been updated by both registerd users and several ip users since.

[andythenorth]

2 hours ago, MartinRS said:

Who exactly is TT aimed at ? You have asked that question twice now. Have you watched the video at the start of this thread? SK explains 3 min 30 seconds in if you want to skip the introduction.

 🙂

 

Me! Me! It’s aimed at me! 🙂

 

Such serious modeller I am!

 

(I did win 1st prize in a BRM modelling competition in 1993, but that’s ancient history) 🙃

Edited October 31, 2022 by andythenorth

[Chris116]

Well I have just joined the Hornby TT:120 club and it said that the welcome pack would be mailed within six days.

 

I have just been checking the sets they are advertising and note in the list of contents it say you get a 3rd radius oval plus track pack 1. Then further down in the specifications it says minimum radius is 2nd radius! Does this mean that the minimum radius the loco and stock will go round is 2nd radius but the supplied oval is 3rd radius or does it mean that they can't make up their minds what is in the set? I hope it is the former but will wait to hear reports from those who receive the first sets shipped.

 

I have just updated my copy of AnyRail and will be having a little play with a few plans this afternoon and evening.

[britishcolumbian]

Re "whom is TT:120 aimed at?"...

 

...anyone who will buy it.

 

I think Hornby are at least to some extent taking the Continental market as something of a given for *some* sales of sets and steamers especially to the collectors' segment in Germany. And I've seen several comment "I'll get an 08 because of the DB logo on it"...

[adrianmc]

Don't know if it has been highlighted in this thread before but the Hornby TT:120 Catalogue has a major typo on page 2?

 

First paragraph has the statement:

 

"Introducing Hornby TT:120, a Table Top model railway format that uses an internationally recognised scale of 1:120 or in simple terms, 1" to 1' and is a perfect scale for those of all ages who may be limited for space" 

 

Surely that should be 1" to 10'  i.e. 1 inch to 10 feet?

 

 

 

 

[jjb1970]

It's very easy to project our own interests and values onto others and imagine we can speak for other enthusiasts. I think we all do it and it's a natural thing, but other people have different ideas and desires. I think Hornby are serious in their claim to be looking for new blood and they seem to be designing a nice range of models which are not too fragile to be picked up and played with while also being good enough for more serious enthusiasts. I am impressed. Design clever!!😉

[Grovenor]

39 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

They were — TT first — but the TT version had disc headcodes and the OO one, D5572, headcode boxes.

The interesting bit for me at the time was that the TT models came out with Magnadhesion which I found a great help getting trains hauled by D5572 up my gradient, in fact I replaced NS rail on the hill with Steel to take advantage of it. But there was no mention of Magnadhesion in the publicity for the TT locos. We just found out what it was when Hornby made a big thing of it when the 00 versions were introduced.

[Grovenor]

6 minutes ago, adrianmc said:

Don't know if it has been highlighted in this thread before but the Hornby TT:120 Catalogue has a major typo on page 2?

 

First paragraph has the statement:

 

"Introducing Hornby TT:120, a Table Top model railway format that uses an internationally recognised scale of 1:120 or in simple terms, 1" to 1' and is a perfect scale for those of all ages who may be limited for space" 

 

Surely that should be 1" to 10'  i.e. 1 inch to 10 feet?

 

 

 

 

Highlighted many pages back.

[adrianmc]

Just now, Grovenor said:

Highlighted many pages back.

 

Thanks - did a search but couldn't find it.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, britishcolumbian said:

Re "whom is TT:120 aimed at?"...

 

...anyone who will buy it.

 

I think Hornby are at least to some extent taking the Continental market as something of a given for *some* sales of sets and steamers especially to the collectors' segment in Germany. And I've seen several comment "I'll get an 08 because of the DB logo on it"...

I wonder if the DB model will come with correct sized buffers on it as per the real 08623 (and other EWS overhauled 08’s).

 

flickr url / not mine

 

( iirc werent the buffers ex scrap 47’s ?).

 

I note the GBRF 08 EP photo (3 pages back) has bonnet steps to the exhaust vent at the front, which I dont recall an 08 having since the 1970’s, but the GBRF EP doesnt have the directional red/ white LEDs, replacing the old style electric lights 08’s had. The GBRF EP did not have the Orange lights mounted on the cab roof either…that the real thing does have. Note the GBRF 08 has the class 66 style buckeye / release too, which isnt present on the EP. The shunter is remote controled and has a roof aerial  I didnt see these on the EP either. Finally the lamp irons on the GBRF one are reversed to the usual lighting position, and on the cab end it has 4 more lamp irons than the real thing.

 

It is however only an EP so those 15 things may be addressed.

 

(flickr url/not mine)

 

 

However it is noteworthy Hornbys 08 tooling does have two different cabs (wooden vs metal door) as seen on 08489 vs the GBRF 08 EPs (and whistle/horn), and multiple frame mounted cabinet styles as mounted on the running plate.
 

08489 is correct in this regard. Whilst theres many pictures of 08489 online, the oldest I found was 26/6/1975 at Laira, but it too didnt have bonnet steps on both sides of the front, but 08489 did lose its centre shunting lights (top and centre) quite early on (sometime early 1980’s). So maybe the Hornby EP represents March 1974 (when renumbered to Tops) to max June 1975 when it visually did not have bonnet steps ?

it definitely isnt a 1 size fits all 08, which is a good sign, but some additional effort maybe needed to be true to life of a prototype.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by adb968008

[philsandy]

11 minutes ago, adrianmc said:

Don't know if it has been highlighted in this thread before but the Hornby TT:120 Catalogue has a major typo on page 2?

 

First paragraph has the statement:

 

"Introducing Hornby TT:120, a Table Top model railway format that uses an internationally recognised scale of 1:120 or in simple terms, 1" to 1' and is a perfect scale for those of all ages who may be limited for space" 

 

Surely that should be 1" to 10'  i.e. 1 inch to 10 feet?

 

 

 

 

 

Glad it's not 1" to 1' as I would have to have got a bigger TableTop.

[Johan DC]

44 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

 

I have just been checking the sets they are advertising and note in the list of contents it say you get a 3rd radius oval plus track pack 1. Then further down in the specifications it says minimum radius is 2nd radius! Does this mean that the minimum radius the loco and stock will go round is 2nd radius but the supplied oval is 3rd radius or does it mean that they can't make up their minds what is in the set? I hope it is the former but will wait to hear reports from those who receive the first sets shipped.

It's the same with (at least some of the) OO gauge train sets. I had three (still have the Centenary one with SNG) and all three had 3rd radius ovals, and locos that do minimum of 2nd radius. 

[009 micro modeller]

6 hours ago, dagrizz said:

 

Sorry, I don't think this is a relevant analogy. East European NG is a rather limited market whereas Hornby are aiming for a broad appeal with British prototypes.  

 

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

It's a perfectly valid comparison. Just as you won't want duff models, neither do I, but in my case handling them isn't an option so I have to rely on photos and reviews. So exactly the same as having to buy TT sight unseen.

I agree - perfectly valid comparison. Currently TT is equally niche, if Hornby is successful it will become more mainstream. More to the point, even relatively mainstream NG modelling (British outline 009) requires a lot to be ordered online, as does US or Continental standard gauge H0 (which is just as mainstream as British 00 and generally purchased in the same way, it’s just the location of the purchaser in a different country from the prototype that means it often has to be bought online). I’m also not sure why this is being framed as an issue specific to model railways when lots of people are happy to buy other stuff online. I can completely understand a reluctance to buy used equipment in this way as the condition may be unclear, yet lots of people are happy to buy through EBay.

[Hroth]

2 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

It's the same with (at least some of the) OO gauge train sets. I had three (still have the Centenary one with SNG) and all three had 3rd radius ovals, and locos that do minimum of 2nd radius. 

 

There is some confusion about the curve radius supplied in the boxed sets, in some places I've seen 3rd radius mentioned and in others 2nd radius.  If Hornby design rules remain constant, locos will be "designed" to a minimum of 2nd radius, and so will be happy with any track supplied by Hornby that the owner has to hand!

 

[jjb1970]

I think one reason why people will want to see and handle TT is to get an idea of what 1/120 really looks and feels like. Many will have had no experience at all, and for those familiar with 1/100 it's quite a big difference to go to 1/120. 

[Hobby]

Many existing enthusiast will, I'm sure, but the ones they are aiming at won't and there's plenty of enthusiasts who already know TT and won't be worried. The more Hornby take it around shows the more people will see it as well. Warley next...

 

 

 

[Flying Pig]

38 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

08489 is correct in this regard. Whilst theres many pictures of 08489 online, the oldest I found was 1977, but it too didnt have bonnet steps on both sides of the front, but 08489 did lose its centre shunting lights (top and centre) quite early on (sometime early 1980’s). So maybe the Hornby EP represents early 1970’s to c1981 ?

 

Information about this loco from brdatabase.info here. Blue livery by March 1971 and TOPS number applied March 1974.  Air brakes were fitted November 1977, but vacuum brakes were removed at the same time and presumably that is why it didn't receive the extra footplate cabinets.  So it represents 1974 to whenever the lamp was removed and could probably be backdated to 1971 at least with a quick change of number.  Buffer beam hoses would of course need to match the braking system.

 

I guess that the model photographed is a livery sample and that the ladders will be removed for production - its 00 counterpart seems correct in this respect.

 

 

[adb968008]

22 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Information about this loco from brdatabase.info here. Blue livery by March 1971 and TOPS number applied March 1974.  Air brakes were fitted November 1977, but vacuum brakes were removed at the same time and presumably that is why it didn't receive the extra footplate cabinets.  So it represents 1974 to whenever the lamp was removed and could probably be backdated to 1971 at least with a quick change of number.  Buffer beam hoses would of course need to match the braking system.

 

I guess that the model photographed is a livery sample and that the ladders will be removed for production - its 00 counterpart seems correct in this respect.

 

 

Thanks you caught me mid update… Ive updated to reflect March 1974, but additionally this picture from 26th June 1975 where it clearly did not have ladders…and an additional OHLE flash by the front shunters steps, not on the EP.

 

flickr url, not mine.

 

(There is a picture of it at Radyr in 1969 in Green with ladders, which is quite a nice pleasing picture to see, but not relevent as it was pre-Tops and Green).

(Flickr url not mine)

it does bring one interesting point though, whilst the blue EP has 5 lamp irons on the front, (Ive only ever seen 2 in blue), but if you note the image above, the 3 lamp irons are GWR style.. makes sense as its a WR 08, but ive never considered that before.

 

I suspect for most people the blue 08 “will do”.., today, though that maybe less acceptable in the future. However the GBRF and DB ones may really need a bit more convincing. Contemporary image modellers tend to go for accurate details, especially when other scales are ever increasing offering this level of accuracy.

Edited October 31, 2022 by adb968008