Hornby announce TT:120

[Phil Parker]

19 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I suspect for most people the blue 08 “will do”..though the GBRF and DB ones may need a bit more convincing. Contemporary image modellers tend to go for accurate details, especially when other scales are ever increasing offering this level of accuracy.

 

And it could be that like the steam locos, these are pre-production models and subject to change. However, if for "most people", they will do, then that's all that needed for a profitable range I suspect. It could be that we might see the return of some actual modelling, heaven forbid!

[Phil Parker]

Passed to me by the editor yesterday. It's an excellent magazine.

[irishmail]

Looking foward to my copy arriving soon.

[Mr chapman]

Was it ever confirmed that the pullman's supplied in the set don't have lights fitted? I can't imagine that would be the case. Although perhaps it could be handy if you want an odd pullman to slip in a train of mk1's. 

[009 micro modeller]

9 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Seriously?

 

As a means to expand an already saturated market maybe, though I'd have expected it to be done in 00 if such a demand existed, as it hasn't I'll draw my own conclusions. But for starting a new scale I'd have thought launching Era 1 would be the kiss of death, outside enthusiasts Rocket is about the only well known loco, hardly a springboard for success. Or have |i misread your post?

On a purely technical/practical level, I’m not sure Rocket is the most sensible prototype for an RTR loco in a scale smaller than H0. It’s very small by more modern standards. Also, one of the advantages of TT is being able to fit a layout into a smaller space, something you can often already do in a similar way in 00 or H0 for early railways because of the short trains and small locos involved.

Edited October 31, 2022 by 009 micro modeller

[5Dublo2]

21 minutes ago, Mr chapman said:

Was it ever confirmed that the pullman's supplied in the set don't have lights fitted? I can't imagine that would be the case. Although perhaps it could be handy if you want an odd pullman to slip in a train of mk1's. 

I spoke to Simon Kohler on Sunday at Gaydon - he confirmed the Scotsman Set will not contain lit Pullman's (but also intriguingly  let slip that they might do a DCC set in the future that could have lit Pullmans - we'll probably have to wait to see if that happens)

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by 5Dublo2

[Michanglais]

I think I may be the ideal customer for Hornby.

 

A British expat, living in a small, city-centre flat in Lyon, France. I'm more of a 'collector' and 'runner' than serious modeller (tho I do dabble sometimes).

 

I have a collection of HO HAG Swiss models that sit on lighted shelves, or a 'powered diorama' so that I can run them for a few centimetres, with sounds and lights and sometimes just left ticking over for company. They are also now being joined by a fleet of LS Models SNCF locos, for the same purposes. (Note the models from both manufacturers are at prices that make the eyes water but they are exquisite.)

 

However, I also love to sometimes just 'play trains'. Clearly no room for a permanent layout so I've got as large a loop and sidings of Kato Unitrack in N that will fit on my parquet floor in the lounge on which I run Swiss (just love their operations - trains of mixed single and double-deck stock, locos running in the centre of a train...). It literally takes minutes to set up a fun 'layout' and when I get bored of stepping over it, it's all packed away in minutes. 

 

I'm absolutely loving the idea of (mostly for nostalgia reasons) getting my hands on some UK TT to run on Tillig's version of Unitrack. Just like my N, I'll be able to snap together a layout in minutes and have trains running in no time. I don't really like OO - it just looks wrong - big and bulky on narrow gauge track and would take up too much space to run decent length trains on Kato's HO Unitrack (also, even if I did just run short trains, as far as I know nobody manufactures EM/P4 snap-track...), same dislike goes for the incorrect UK N but, finally, the possibility of correct scale-to-gauge at a size that will allow me to run full-length HSTs that also have 'presence'. And what is this? Proper, body-mounted close couplers that are STILL not fitted as standard on all UK outline stock (yes, I do realise that is sloooowwly changing) only about 35 years after they became standard on Continental stock in HO, TT AND N!

 

I say - bring it on! I'm wishing Hornby all the best with this. Some may snear at my set-ups, but they bring me lots of pleasure and now in a scale that I have always been fascinated by (I have dabbled in TT before but I'm not so keen on the mostly German and Eastern European outline stock it comes in). I'll finally be able to quickly and conveniently relive some of my childhood memories of BR with decent-length trains in a relatively restricted space. 

 

Should I charge Hornby a fee for what could be viewed as enthusiastic marketing for them?!

 

One thing I think Hornby could have done better is the use of snap-track. No, it's not for the serious modeller but it's incredibly convenient and the in-built ballast protects from dust quite considerably on the floor. I think Tillig had to buy a licence from Kato, or something, to produce their's but it might be something for Hornby to think about in the future - especially if they are genuine about wanting to attract a 'new' public.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris116]

If the Pullman's in the set are not lit then why is the set with them in more expensive than the other one since from what I can see that is the only reason why one set costs more than the other.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Chris116

[Gary704]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Fleischmann and Rivarossi's excursions into British outline were very nicely done by the standards of the time but expensive and limited. They all look rather crude today but that's hardly surprising or a cause for criticism given their age and the paradigm shift in British outline over the last 30 years or so.

I think it is something to celebrate that British outline finally has an RTR option which is the same scale as international models and with the correct gauge for scale. How much crossover there will be between British and overseas I don't know but at least the option is there now.

The main complaints I see here and elsewhere still seem to be from disgruntled OO and N enthusiasts who don't like the idea of a company making models in another scale. My answer is still that if people want more OO and N models then rather than complain about TT they should look to manufacturers to do more in OO and N. Actually, OO modellers have never had it so good and really can't complain. Things may be less rosy in N but Rapido and Revolution are doing some very nice models and Farish and Dapol are still active in the scale. 

I do agree with the comment about “disgruntled 00 and N” modellers. Perhaps it’s because the incorrect gauge / scale is an inconvenient truth? To be reminded that after spending ££ on an exquisite model that it’s running on narrow gauge track can’t be great and that the 00 cash cow mythology has been perpetuated by all manufacturers.

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

And it could be that like the steam locos, these are pre-production models and subject to change.

 

I think it is very likely they are livery samples, but it's still nice to see all the tooling variations included in the first release. 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

7 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

If the Pullman's in the set are not lit then why is the set with then in more expensive than the other one since from what I can see that is the only reason why one set costs more than the other.

I imagine that Pullman cars attract a sort of premium, in some folk's eyes...

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Post war houses tended to be smaller than those built in the '30s for a variety of reasons but Meccano already had Hornby Dublo before that change, and they still sold Hornby 0 gauge well into the 1950s.  The next shrinkage of houses sizes probably dates from the late 1960s/70s but became much more noticeable in the '80s/'90s and that trend has carried on until today - but even more so.  

 

So if you relate things to changes in the size of new houses one would expect N gauge to be more popular now than it has ever been and take a much bigger share of the market.  And TT - which is bigger than N - is now appearing as houses get even smaller while there has also been a significant revival of 0 gauge - totally counter intuitive to any thought about model railway scales being influenced by house size.   But TT will still allow a bigger layout than 00 and is probably easier to handle than N so it is not a bad idea as such.

There’s clearly a bit more to it than ‘smaller houses = smaller scales becoming more popular’. While many people are now used to N gauge (and have even gone smaller still, to Z and T), for some it is still too small. So as you say, TT fills that nice ‘more detail possible than N (remember this means detail that can be easily added to layouts, not just detail already present on RTR stuff), less space needed than 00’ niche.

 

A lot of the people getting into 0 seem to be building much smaller layouts than the sort generally seen with “old” 0 gauge. And it is still out of reach for some people, both for space and cost reasons.

[andythenorth]

29 minutes ago, Gary704 said:

I do agree with the comment about “disgruntled 00 and N” modellers. Perhaps it’s because the incorrect gauge / scale is an inconvenient truth?

Could be any of the following (none of this is intended to be derogatory or insulting):

• the hobby attracts people who are non-neurotypical, i.e. somewhere on a spectrum, or at least it did when I was involved in clubs and exhibitions 25 years ago, and internet forums also attract people of that ilk, so this can easily fill internet forums up with obsessive behaviour and difficulty accepting alternative viewpoints
• lots of people in the hobby are quite driven by nostalgia, e.g. recreating days of steam, scenes from childhood etc, this can go hand-in-hand with not really liking change
• some people get stuck on brand loyalty, we see this in other places, e.g. Cat vs Deere, Mac vs. PC, Nike vs. Adidas etc, internet forums also magnify this, anything alternative feels like a bit of a threat to these people, or a criticism of their choices
• some people just like trolling, even if it's not intended as trolling, but just a bit of back and forth banter
• SK really pisses some people off 
• add your own reason here

😛

 

Not really added much to the thread here, have I?  Sorry.

Edited October 31, 2022 by andythenorth

[rob D2]

I see it as rolling the dice as their current scales and ranges are not delivering much profit on sales .

 

I'm not sure outside the box is the best approach for them (60% reduced steampunk range i was reading an ad for ),

 

But my biggest fear is who are these people who would walk past a TT layout and think " railway modelling - never thought of that " and sign up ? It's 2022 not 1982 and we are out of lockdowns so peoples choices are opened up again .

 

Regardless I wish them well and hope it flies off the shelves 

 

[Chris116]

Having joined the TT:120 club I have studied what is planned more carefully. Brush Type 2 and Castle class 4-6-0 are both models I liked in my TT3 days. Then I find 92212 is planned, my preferred loco for hauling the RAT on the Mid Hants Railway when I am Guard on the service. I just hope later phases of their plans include a Jinty, a DMU, a 2-6-2T and a Merchant Navy to complete my old time TT3 recreation.

[009 micro modeller]

59 minutes ago, Gary704 said:

To be reminded that after spending ££ on an exquisite model that it’s running on narrow gauge track can’t be great

Unless it’s an NG model of course… 😜

 

But joking aside, I’m not even sure that’s the main issue people have with TT120 (in N the gauge error is rather less than in 00 anyway). Opposition from TT3 modellers I could sort of understand, as for some people bringing back TT as an RTR gauge but not using the scale they’ve been using all along might be disappointing (although I realise there will probably be a large number of 3mm scale modellers who will either see the positive aspects, or alternatively who couldn’t care less either way).

 

Would the same ’disgruntled 00 and N gauge modellers’ (if that is really an accurate description) have been equally annoyed if Hornby had announced a new S scale range, for example? And if so, is it perhaps Hornby that people have a problem with (however justified, or not, that may be) and not TT120 itself? I can’t see how having more choices in term’s of RTR scales can be a bad thing, in principle.

Edited October 31, 2022 by 009 micro modeller

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Such as?

 

stuff people are more likely to afford?

 

trains that fit in a modern house without having to take the doors off?

 

Just a thought

 

Les

[Hroth]

Some TT3 stuff can be used without too much dissonance.  I'm not thinking of locos and rolling stock, but apart from platform heights, buildings, signals and so on shouldn't be problematic as the size of things vary in the real world and the difference between 2.54mm and 3mm to the foot would be negligable*. So if you've a stack of unbuilt Bilteze card kits to hand....

 

* At normal viewing distances!

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Hroth
A qualifier.

[Les1952]

5 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I think it is something to celebrate that British outline finally has an RTR option which is the same scale as international models and with the correct gauge for scale. How much crossover there will be between British and overseas I don't know but at least the option is there now.

The main complaints I see here and elsewhere still seem to be from disgruntled OO and N enthusiasts who don't like the idea of a company making models in another scale. My answer is still that if people want more OO and N models then rather than complain about TT they should look to manufacturers to do more in OO and N. Actually, OO modellers have never had it so good and really can't complain. Things may be less rosy in N but Rapido and Revolution are doing some very nice models and Farish and Dapol are still active in the scale. 

 

But they do....  Loudly and vociferously.

 

Les

Edited October 31, 2022 by Les1952

[Robin Brasher]

2 hours ago, Mr chapman said:

Was it ever confirmed that the pullman's supplied in the set don't have lights fitted? I can't imagine that would be the case. Although perhaps it could be handy if you want an odd pullman to slip in a train of mk1's. 

According to to page 824 of the November Railway Modeller the Pullman cars in the Scotsman set do have illuminated table lamps but I did not know that the 'Flying Scotsman' was a Pullman train.

 

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

But they do....  Loudly and vociferously and try hard to annihilate any point of view but their own at times.

 

Really Les? Such comments would only serve to foster factionalism (where there is little) and make that a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's as bad as gauge wars, kettles v diesels and other juvenile battlegrounds. 

[Chris116]

6 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

According to to page 824 of the November Railway Modeller the Pullman cars in the Scotsman set do have illuminated table lamps but I did not know that the 'Flying Scotsman' was a Pullman train.

 

In the Hornby alternative reality the Flying Scotsman can be anything they dream up.

 

It is called Rule 1 and used by many of us at times in need.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Chris116

[JohnR]

8 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

According to to page 824 of the November Railway Modeller the Pullman cars in the Scotsman set do have illuminated table lamps but I did not know that the 'Flying Scotsman' was a Pullman train.

 

 

Been stated many times in this thead that Hornby have confirmed that they do not have lights. 

[Ha_Charade_UR]

Hi all, this is my first post on the forum.  I've been following this discussion for the last week or so with interest.  

 

Someone asked who TT120 is aimed at; well, it's the reason I'm here, so maybe I'm part of the intended demographic.  I last bought something in a model shop in 1986...up until that point, I'd had OO, N and had dipped my toe into the elusive world of TT (I think I joined the 3mm Society too).  However, as my mid-teenager-isms took hold, my other interests got the upper hand and that last purchase from the model shop lay dormant, boxed and in the custody of my brother.  
 

Speaking of whom, my brother never lost his interest in railways and it was partly because of him that I was on the net, looking at various model retailers' websites.  I ordered him a present and as a consequence was on their mailing list.  Every now and then an interestingly titled email would appear and I would have a look.  

 

And then, a couple of weeks or so ago, something alerted me to this TT120 thing.  Well, that did make me look!  The scale (and now actually it is to scale, woo!) which had been a bit of a cult thing to me as a kid was suddenly being given a proper shot...I had to find out more!  And so I did...I watched the Hornby promo stuff, read various stuff on the web, watched more videos...went to the Hornby website and signed up (hey, free for a year, 15% discount...what's not to like?).  

At which point I've got to digress...I feel a bit like I've got out of a time machine.   I knew the prices of my old hobby had increased rather a lot but it's like I was asleep and missed some kind of revolution!   And for some reason I've yet to discover, rather a lot of people seem to dislike Hornby; I'll probably find the reason for that on the web, too.  

 

But back to my main point...TT120 has dragged me back in and may well get me to part with some loot.  I've looked at OO and N and now that I'm adjusting to being out of the metaphorical time machine, I'm thinking, yes, the models look more sophisticated but they ought to for the prices they command!  And then I'm looking at the TT sets (and here comes the nostalgia angle...we all love a train set if we're honest, because it takes us back to the time when our respective worlds were less messed up) and doing the maths: loco, track and the necessary starter gubbins for less than the price of (many) single locos in the other scales...even more enticing with the 15% discount...well, I mean, it's got to be worth a go, hasn't it?   

 

So there you are.  This is my perspective as an outsider, no dog in the fight and other such cliches.  I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty gripped by this move of Hornby's!  

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for the information about the lack of lights in the Pullman cars in the Scotsman set. 

 

I wonder if it has occurred to Hornby that some modellers are not on the internet. As the TT 120 range is only available direct from its website these modellers will not be able to buy any Hornby TT 120 models. This will mean that Hornby will be missing out on nostalgia sales possibly mainly for people in the over 70s age group who are still active modellers.