Hornby announce TT:120

[Hroth]

4 hours ago, gc4946 said:

According to Hornby's TT:120 forum, there's a live Q&A session on YouTube from midday today.

 

 

Just had a look.  At present, the stream is showing as "private". Ok there's 25 minutes to go so it might become accessable at midday. Otherwise?

 

I rarely look at Hornby forums for some reason... 🤪

 

Update: 5 mins to go and scuttlebut on the Hornby forum says it's been cancelled...

Update: Nothings happened, so it was either cancelled, or nevvawazz...

Update: The original link posted on the Hornby Community forum may have mangled some information, that it was for tomorrow, Wednesday 16th November. Its possibly a new episode of "TT Talk Live".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Hroth
Updates 15:05

[natterjack]

"Update: 5 mins to go and scuttlebut on the Hornby forum says it's been cancelled.."

 

Seems this might actually have been scheduled for 16 November Midday GMT-  I don't know if this is an update or some earlier notification error has crept in.

[JohnR]

As it hadnt been formally announced by Hornby, I'll assume it was discovered by someone on YouTube who then decided to broadcast its existence to all and sundry. This resulted in someone at Hornby realising it had been set for the wrong date.

[Hroth]

24 minutes ago, JohnR said:

As it hadnt been formally announced by Hornby, I'll assume it was discovered by someone on YouTube who then decided to broadcast its existence to all and sundry. This resulted in someone at Hornby realising it had been set for the wrong date.

 

The problem is that Hornby seem to be in a muddle about what information they have about TT:120.  No one there seems to have the responsibility to ensure that what is currently on the Hornby website is correct, and if it is incorrect, have it updated in a timely manner!

 

This then leads to confusion amongst the folk that Hornby need to get on board and pre-ordering product, the interested early adopters.  They're not even using the mailing list they've generated by offering free Club T120 memberships and taking preorders to communicate with regarding the status of the TT:120 project.

 

Even the "Exclusive Members Area" is devoid of any information, apart from the basic info released on the 10th October. The heading for the page offers "Explore the latest news, competitions and Train Terminal blogs" and provides a solitary TT Blog from the 10th.  Otherwise, its a howling desert.

 

The supposed "Q&A session" is just another example of potential buyers looking for information and not finding it.

 

[SeanTT]

9 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

The problem is that Hornby seem to be in a muddle about what information they have about TT:120.  No one there seems to have the responsibility to ensure that what is currently on the Hornby website is correct, and if it is incorrect, have it updated in a timely manner!

 

This then leads to confusion amongst the folk that Hornby need to get on board and pre-ordering product, the interested early adopters.  They're not even using the mailing list they've generated by offering free Club T120 memberships and taking preorders to communicate with regarding the status of the TT:120 project.

 

Even the "Exclusive Members Area" is devoid of any information, apart from the basic info released on the 10th October. The heading for the page offers "Explore the latest news, competitions and Train Terminal blogs" and provides a solitary TT Blog from the 10th.  Otherwise, its a howling desert.

 

The supposed "Q&A session" is just another example of potential buyers looking for information and not finding it.

 

 

Funny really, SK said on the original video "the time is correct for announcing TT" but then they have been devoid of releasing information publicly for 6-7 weeks now besides rumors and the odd question answered at Gaydon,

 

It seems a long time really since the release information and now and with no information since other then a Q&A it all seems to have gone a bit flat, even more so with the rumors that sets may now be released in February and track packs not until April at the earliest..

 

Hornby need to come out and answer some questions and make things a bit clearer, hopefully the Q&A now rearranged for tomorrow (or so it seems) can do that but really they need to do a new blog post or as you mentioned send an email to those Club TT:120 members who have registered with an update and news. if timescales have moved then be honest about them, most people will respect that rather then finding out their Christmas presents or plans for Christmas are now off at the last minute.

 

I went to Gaydon and asked a few questions, received the TT:120 magazine (at the show and via mail) and whilst its a good start more needs to be done, you would think with a new product line there would be regular social media and website updates aswell as model railway magazine interviews etc.

 

Wake up Hornby!

[andythenorth]

12 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

The problem is that Hornby seem to be in a muddle about what information they have about TT:120.  No one there seems to have the responsibility to ensure that what is currently on the Hornby website is correct, and if it is incorrect, have it updated in a timely manner!

Product launches are hard, I suspect that Hornby are not operationally excellent in all areas (who is?), and there's probably a lot of BAU (business-as-usual in OO and other product ranges) that has to be attended to. 🙂

 

Launching incremental annual ranges is probably significantly less hard than launching something entirely new.  Fewer moving parts, more process / muscle memory / institutional knowledge.

 

Not trying to defend Hornby, just taking a pragmatic view that they will be spinning a lot of plates, with some people naturally out of their depth 🙃

[Michanglais]

4 hours ago, Johan DC said:

From Hornby's website:

 

At Hornby, we comply with 1st July EU VAT simplification rules. This means that the final price you pay for your purchase also includes your delivery country’s VAT/IVA rate and import duty costs. We also pay the local VAT direct to your government. This means you can await your order’s arrival with peace of mind knowing there will be no surprise charges or fees upon delivery.

 

https://support.Hornby.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403093130770-New-improved-and-easier-ordering-from-EU-countries

 

Not only TT.  However, even then it is possible that you have to pay VAT in your delivery country, if the paperwork (oh yes, more red tape...) isn't complete or correct. Hattons are always very helpfull, haven't ordered from Hornby yet. I don't know if any other company besides H and H are EU VAT registred?

 

Don't know about other companies, either, tho I did order from Rails of Sheffield who you might expect to be VAT registered in at least some EU countries (ebay purchase) but they didn't deduct VAT and I got charged French VAT upon arrival (also the post office in France lumps VAT and customs fees into one sum and so the powers that be refused to reimburse me the double VAT because they had no way of knowing exactly how much was VAT and how much was customs fees...). Shan't be buying from Rails again. Oh! And just to make matters worse, there's a specific rule on ebay where they automatically apply French VAT to purchases from the UK (doesn't apply to any other country-pairs, as far as I could tell) - which you can't get reimbursed because of the post office's manner of collecting VAT/customs fees in one lump sum. On that purchase I paid VAT THREE times!

 

I, too, have bought from Hatton's with absolutely no issues. When I called them, they really knew what they were talking about. Very professional, so I was reassured... However, I've now been mis-informed by Hornby Customer 'Services' twice so I don't really trust them to know what they're doing. I think you are right to be skeptical. 

 

As my main 'wish' is for the class 37, which is probably a year off yet, I'll wait to see if there are other people commenting in the relevant threads before committing...

 

 

[britishcolumbian]

5 hours ago, Michanglais said:

So I contacted Hornby again and they still replied that I would be paying French VAT on arrival (there was no indication of VAT being deducted in the pre-order total, in fact it said "including VAT").

My preorders said that too: "including £0 VAT"...

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, SeanTT said:

Hornby need to come out and answer some questions

 

They don't 'need' to just because you want them to.

 

The timing was for and to Hornby's benefit rather than the end customer.

[Hroth]

22 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

That don't 'need' to just because you want them to.

 

The timing was for and to Hornby's benefit rather than the end customer.

 

Perhaps a better way to put things is "Hornby needs to provide more information".

 

What we have had has been given out in a disjointed manner and anything concrete and not contradictory is hard to find. It is to Hornbys benefit that customers for this new scale are kept well informed AND BUYING product.  If they don't have the information to enable them to make a rational purchasing decision, they won't buy. Or even pre-order.

 

Hopefully, if the Q&A goes ahead tomorrow, then some useful information will emerge and folk will all calm down!

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

Having taken a few weeks off from this thread, it's nice to see nothing has changed.😇

[Chris116]

I contacted Hornby regarding all the emails about OO following my joining the TT:120 club. I was told that members of the Collectors Club and TT:120 Club both get all OO and TT messages as they do not have a way of splitting them. I pointed out that they were able to split messages about all their other ranges but I was told that it was not worth doing it as OO and TT were both railway systems. I will be unsubscribing from their emails until they think TT is worth taking seriously.

[Michanglais]

15 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

My preorders said that too: "including £0 VAT"...

 

My pre-orders actually did include a VAT amount - I can only assume that it is the VAT amount to be paid directly to the French tax authorities, especially if yours said £0 (I presume there's no VAT agreement with your country?).

 

However, the email was very unclear. It simply said "French VAT is 20%". Yes, thank you, I know that but is that the VAT you're including in the price or another 20% I'd have to pay upon arrival - not at all clear from the reply I got. Then there's the issue of customs fees. In the email, I was informed I might have to pay them, in Hornby's Terms and Conditions, it states they are taken care of at the time of purchase so that when the goods arrive there are absolutely no fees remaining to be paid. 

 

As it stands, my pre-orders will remain cancelled - I'm really more interested in the 37 and 47 which will be a good year off from now so I'm in no hurry. I'm going to contact Hornby yet again with a link to their own site and see if they can give me a clearer answer. I want an email reply guaranteeing that I won't be paying either VAT or customs fees upon arrival because they're quite high in France and at least if I've got a 'guarantee' email from Hornby themselves, I may be able to claim them back should I take the chance of ordering in the first place. 

 

Really, they should know their own policies. This has been in place since July 2021, it's not like it just happened yesterday and the information hasn't had time to filter down... Sigh!

 

 

 

 

[Robin Brasher]

I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having with VAT with models being sent to France.  My main problem is that the TT gauge track is in Hornby's warehouse but I cannot buy it due possibly to a problem with Hornby's wen site.  If they had sent the track to model shops there would not be a problem in buying it.

 

Having said that the models they are planning to sell would make an excellent train sets. They would be an improvement on the Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang sets especially with the station buildings and sixth radius points. I expect Hornby Dublo inspired Hornby to make the 'Duchess of Atholl' and the LMS coaches. The picture shows the Hornby Dublo models on a 6' x 4' layout which would be even more impressive on a TT gauge layout.

 

Unfortunately neither I nor any of the model railway clubs I belong to have any storage space for an additional layout. One club has flat topped tables up to 6' x 2' so I will be able to loose lay the track on those if Hornby ever release their track from their warehouse.

[Silly Moo]

23 hours ago, Hobby said:

Did you ask them?! ;)

I have done so now and have been told there will be no display in the Visitor Centre until December. They do have some Oxford Diecast Cars, which I missed as I wasn’t really looking to buy cars. 

[Hobby]

I suspect there's no display because the only stuff they have is the pre-production ones we are seeing at shows!

 

Re the track, could it just be that they are holding off releasing it until they have something to run on it? That may be a pain for those who want it for other reasons but for those of us who have ordered a set it makes no odds when we actually get the track and there's not much point if we have it and nothing to run on it... Of course there's always Peco or Tillig if you're desperate...

[JohnR]

I think they are holding off on selling it to ensure they have plenty of stock for when folk get their train set and then want to extend it. Not everyone is as foresighted as some and buy their track packs before they get their sets!

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, Michanglais said:

 

 

Really, they should know their own policies. This has been in place since July 2021, it's not like it just happened yesterday and the information hasn't had time to filter down... Sigh!

 

 

 

 

With the turmoil going on at the moment it is not exactly clear that the government knows its own trade policies.  Horror stories about companies trying to export are emerging at a good half-dozen a day- including those relocating to France or Belgium and others giving up and closing down....

 

Les

 

[jjb1970]

I think the ordering issues for people in Europe are more down to the exit agreement with Europe than anything else. I suspect Hornby have made mistakes as have plenty of other companies but the message I get over and over from lots of people is that ordering stuff between the EU and UK is rather problematic. Ironically, ordering outside Europe seems much easier and less problematic. I order stuff from UK dealers and have never had an issue, with delivery to me in Singapore being almost as quick as to a domestic UK address in many cases. Similarly I order stuff from Japan and it is completely painless, very fast and efficient.

[Johan DC]

TT Talk Live:

 

 

[SeanTT]

26 minutes ago, Johan DC said:

TT Talk Live:

 

 

Was a good watch,

 

answered many of the questions I asked in the chat, read about 5 of mine out which was good.

 

good news that Scotsman sets should arrive on 15th December and then sent out for Christmas (If nothing goes wrong in the meantime)

 

Positive vibes felt again

 

Also impressive that Simon gave his email address out and encouraged people to email any questions or issues, not many companies that offer that

 

Well done SK and Hornby on this one, hopefully they can have regular media and news from here on out

[britishcolumbian]

6 hours ago, Michanglais said:

My pre-orders actually did include a VAT amount - I can only assume that it is the VAT amount to be paid directly to the French tax authorities, especially if yours said £0 (I presume there's no VAT agreement with your country?).

 

However, the email was very unclear. It simply said "French VAT is 20%". Yes, thank you, I know that but is that the VAT you're including in the price or another 20% I'd have to pay upon arrival - not at all clear from the reply I got. Then there's the issue of customs fees. In the email, I was informed I might have to pay them, in Hornby's Terms and Conditions, it states they are taken care of at the time of purchase so that when the goods arrive there are absolutely no fees remaining to be paid. 

Canada doesn't even have a tax agreement with itself, heh - i.e. interprovincially; if I buy something online from a seller in BC I have to pay BC sales tax and federal GST, if I buy it from a seller in Ontario I don't pay any sales tax, neither BC nor Ontario, only the GST... as for imports from abroad, sometimes GST is charged on incoming parcels, sometimes it isn't; entirely depends on the clerk's mood I imagine. And then sometimes they (try to) charge actual customs tariffs on goods that are exempt.

 

"Everything paid" is something I take with a grain of salt, there's always something that either the shipper or the border guards will find to tack as a surprise fee. It's more a surprise when I *don't* have to pay extra.

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, SeanTT said:

 

good news that Scotsman sets should arrive on 15th December and then sent out for Christmas (If nothing goes wrong in the meantime)

 

I've ordered the Easterner set but I don't mind waiting a couple if weeks more!

[PeterStiles]

I thought it was interesting that they consider they've "done all they can" with Harry Potter and would let that licence slip.

[SeanTT]

2 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

I thought it was interesting that they consider they've "done all they can" with Harry Potter and would let that licence slip.

Possibly to do with the way JK Rowling has conducted herself recently and distancing themselves from that as it may be perceived negatively.