Hornby announce TT:120

[Porfuera]

4 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

There's a reference to Hornby announcing six new locos - if so, I've totally missed it! Can anyone enlighten me?

 

As far as I can see - and I'll be happy to be corrected - the only new locos that have been announced were the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier Tank (these were only hinted at by SK in January) and even these have merely been brought forward into Phase 4 from the post-Phase-4 "And more...!" section in the catalogue.

 

Apart from those are the locos we already knew about - Duchess (already in the online shop), 9F (Phase 3) and Castle (Phase 4) and HST, Class 50, Class 66 (also already in the shop), Class 37 (Phase 3) and Class 31 (Phase 4).

 

Still, that's an awful lot of locos even if they're going to take a few months to arrive - we're still only 9 months since Hornby's original announcement so even if only some of those arrive in the next year or so it'll still be pretty good going. I'm as guilty as the next person for wanting everything to arrive tomorrow and I've moaned about it in the past but it just isn't going to happen so we need some patience.

 

And people are making a fuss over Hornby's delays as a way to take a poke at Hornby but the same people aren't saying anything about the delay to the Peco wagons - these should be much easier to produce than locos and I believe they're produced in the UK, too, but Peco seem to be having similar delivery problems to Hornby. I'm not having a go at Peco - just trying to say that it isn't only Hornby that are experiencing delays with TT:120.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Porfuera

[Porfuera]

10 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

And if you read the annual report (or, indeed discussions elsewhere on this forum), you'll be aware that this has nothing to do with their new ranges and products.

 

8 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The stock market is more interested in numbers and trends rather than new model ranges and teh more sophisticated investors no doubt also wtch sales trends to the extent that information is available.  That is what drives share prices. New ranges which are a small part of Hornby's total sales figures don't make much impact until they grow to greater prominence in the overal numbers and start to make a noticeable bottom line impact.

 

8 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

That seems to be just tracking what's happened to most trading companies in the last six months - see the stock market!

 

Guys you're just giving him oxygen - best to ignore him before we start down another Hornby-bashing rabbit hole that has nothing to do with TT:120.

[andrewshimmin]

8 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

As far as I can see - and I'll be happy to be corrected - the only new locos that have been announced were the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier Tank (these were only hinted at by SK in January) and even these have merely been brought forward into Phase 4 from the post-Phase-4 "And more...!" section in the catalogue.

 

Apart from those are the locos we already knew about - Duchess (already in the online shop), 9F (Phase 3) and Castle (Phase 4) and HST, Class 50, Class 66 (also already in the shop), Class 37 (Phase 3) and Class 31 (Phase 4).

 

Still, that's an awful lot of locos even if they're going to take a few months to arrive - we're still only 9 months since Hornby's original announcement so even if only some of those arrive in the next year or so it'll still be pretty good going. I'm as guilty as the next person for wanting everything to arrive tomorrow and I've moaned about it in the past but it just isn't going to happen so we need some patience.

 

And people are making a fuss over Hornby's delays as a way to take a poke at Hornby but the same people aren't saying anything about the delay to the Peco wagons - these should be much easier to produce than locos and I believe they're produced in the UK, too, but Peco seem to be having similar delivery problems to Hornby. I'm not having a go at Peco - just trying to say that it isn't only Hornby that are experiencing delays with TT:120.

 

Where were the 0-6-0Ts "announced"?

[Porfuera]

14 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

Where were the 0-6-0Ts "announced"?

 

Here: https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120/future - under "Phase 4"

 

Originally spotted by @Les1952

Edited August 2, 2023 by Porfuera

[Steamport Southport]

50 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

As far as I can see - and I'll be happy to be corrected - the only new locos that have been announced were the LNER/BR J94 and the GWR/BR Class 5700 Pannier Tank (these were only hinted at by SK in January) and even these have merely been brought forward into Phase 4 from the post-Phase-4 "And more...!" section in the catalogue.

 

Apart from those are the locos we already knew about - Duchess (already in the online shop), 9F (Phase 3) and Castle (Phase 4) and HST, Class 50, Class 66 (also already in the shop), Class 37 (Phase 3) and Class 31 (Phase 4).

 

Still, that's an awful lot of locos even if they're going to take a few months to arrive - we're still only 9 months since Hornby's original announcement so even if only some of those arrive in the next year or so it'll still be pretty good going. I'm as guilty as the next person for wanting everything to arrive tomorrow and I've moaned about it in the past but it just isn't going to happen so we need some patience.

 

And people are making a fuss over Hornby's delays as a way to take a poke at Hornby but the same people aren't saying anything about the delay to the Peco wagons - these should be much easier to produce than locos and I believe they're produced in the UK, too, but Peco seem to be having similar delivery problems to Hornby. I'm not having a go at Peco - just trying to say that it isn't only Hornby that are experiencing delays with TT:120.

 

The 57XX and J94 are in the catalogue/brochure.

 

It was the Terrier and Jinty that were mentioned in one of the videos.

 

 

Jason

[Porfuera]

I've just received an email to say that my digital Easterner pre-order is being processed - presumably more stock has arrived.

 

If previous deliveries are anything to go by I should have it by the weekend. Now comes the problem of how to hide its arrival from the Domestic Authority...

[Porfuera]

19 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The 57XX and J94 are in the catalogue/brochure.

 

It was the Terrier and Jinty that were mentioned in one of the videos.

 

 

Jason

 

I did mention that they'd merely been moved forwards from the post-Phase-4 "and more!" section into Phase 4.

 

In January SK said that they'd first be doing the locos they'd already announced in the order they'd announced them and given that Terriers and Jintys aren't even in the catalogue then my take on those is that it was more of a "we've been asked about them and we'll do them one day".

 

That's the problem with those TT Talk videos - the information is not specific or detailed and everyone has a different idea about what is actually being said.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Porfuera

[BachelorBoy]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The stock market is more interested in numbers and trends rather than new model ranges and teh more sophisticated investors no doubt also wtch sales trends to the extent that information is available.  That is what drives share prices. New ranges which are a small part of Hornby's total sales figures don't make much impact until they grow to greater prominence in the overal numbers and start to make a noticeable bottom line impact.

 

Share prices represent expectations of future profits.

 

New model ranges should produce profits, or else there's no point in launching them. 

 

 

[BachelorBoy]

2 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

That seems to be just tracking what's happened to most trading companies in the last six months - see the stock market!

 

The blue line is the FTSE index of the one hundred leading companies on the London stock market. Not much change.

 

The orange line is Hornby's share price. A big fall. 

 

 

[BachelorBoy]

2 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

And if you read the annual report (or, indeed discussions elsewhere on this forum), you'll be aware that this has nothing to do with their new ranges and products.

I disagree.

 

It shows that shareholders have little confidence that Hornby's going to be making profits anytime soon - even with new ranges.

 

And what is the point of launching new products if they don't make profits?

 

 

[MarkSG]

Just now, BachelorBoy said:

I disagree.

 

Then, with all due respect, there is absolutely no point continuing to go off on this particular off-topic diversion.

[Porfuera]

27 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

Then, with all due respect, there is absolutely no point continuing to go off on this particular off-topic diversion.

 

Please don't feed the troll - just asking it to stop (even respectfully) won't stop it - it was posting the same graph in January and it has posted similar stuff since, if I remember correctly.

 

I believe there is a thread to discuss Hornby's share price but it posts here because it likes the attention.

 

Trolls hate being ignored so that's the best way to handle them.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Porfuera

[maico]

19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And amid all this I see that nobidy has yet mentioned Hornby's commitment to TT120 clearly spelt out in their Annual Report which has been published today,  This repeats and builds on the commitment to TT120 included in their Financial Report a mont or so back.

 

No need to argue, no need to invent any sort of things pro or anti their new scale - just listen to what they are saying.

 

Seems quite an extensive loco range is listed on their website some 15 in 5 phases:

 

GWR Castle

J94

5700

Class 08,  31, 37, 43,  47, 50, 66

A1

A3

A4

Princess Coronation

Modern era EMUs

 

[J-Lewis]

I’ve just had a email that my Easterner digital sound set has arrived in the warehouse.  I guess they will be in stock on the web store soon as well.

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Porfuera said:

I believe there is a thread to discuss Hornby's share price but it posts here because it likes the attention.

 

There is, here, for the benefit of @BachelorBoy, then we can get back OT!

 

[Porfuera]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

It was the Terrier and Jinty that were mentioned in one of the videos.

 

I've found what SK said about the Jinty in November 2022 and sadly it doesn't look good if you're hoping for it to arrive any time soon. There is a lot of waffle about it being popular in the old TT and Rome not being built in a day but it sounds like they're sticking with what they published in the catalogue.

 

Obviously plans can change and something different might have been said in a later TT Talk video but this is what was said at that time (I'm hoping the video will start playing at the correct point but if it doesn't then the part about the Jinty starts at about 39 minutes 50 seconds into the video).

 

If I find anything later about the Jinty or about Terriers then I'll let you know but I would've thought that Terriers would fall into the same boat.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Porfuera

[teletougos]

1 hour ago, Porfuera said:

 

There is a lot of waffle

 

Can you ever have enough, really?

[Porfuera]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

It was the Terrier and Jinty that were mentioned in one of the videos.

 

In the same video that I posted above, someone asks "Will there be Terrier tanks in TT?" (at 1:16:27) and SK answers "That's in the plan".

 

So nothing more specific than that but I would guess that (as he implied with the Jinty) Hornby will be doing the locos they've listed in the catalogue before doing the Terrier. If I can find anything more up-to-date I will post it.

 

The question just before the one about the Terriers was about Class 56s which are also "in the plan".

 

And at least "In the plan" is a lot more positive than the other answer that crops up a lot in that video, which is "Never say never".

[Ravenser]

12 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

There's a reference to Hornby announcing six new locos - if so, I've totally missed it! Can anyone enlighten me?

 

10 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

I'm really hoping this is the Midland 0-4-4T, the Highland Skye Bogie and the Furness Baltic tank I've been badgering them for 😉

 

 

The new locos in question are :

 

Class 37

Class 47

J94

57xx 

Castle class.

Class 31

 

I'm calling them a new announcement because Hornby have announced they are going forward to be produced.

 

Yes they are in the initial brochure, but there has been very widespread scepticism about if and when most of the items in the brochure would actually be produced . Look back at the early pages of this thread and you'll find poster after poster suggesting that TT:120 would never get past the Phase 2 models, that it would be quite a few years before Hornby got as far as those, and the more hardline opponents were expressing extreme scepticism that anything more than the launch range would ever appear.

 

The whole of Phases 3 + 4 were widely dismissed as vapourware or brochureware , and anyone who took any of the Phase 3 + 4 announcements seriously was treated as so obviously naive and unrealistic that their opinion could simply be ignored.

 

Now, just 9 months after the launch we have Hornby stating that 6 locos from Phases 3+4 are going forward for tooling and production . They enter the world of TT-numbers and pre-order off the website (although they haven't yet been added to the Hornby shop)

 

You can't have it both ways .

 

- Either you have to discuss the available range as "everything in the brochure" at which point you have to stop saying "but what can you do with a couple of Gresley Pacifics and an 08?"

 

- Or you accept that Hornby have just announced a near doubling of the locos available in TT:120...

 

 

For the record , I count as Phase 2 :

 

Class 66

Duchess

HST

Class 50 

Stanier coaches

Mk3s 

KFA wagon

MDO 21T

TTA

HAA

 

It was originally suggested the Phases would each be 6 months , with Phase 1 running to Easter, Phase 2 till October 2023 and so on.. Clearly that has slipped - Phase 1 took about 9 months, which would then imply Phase 2 running until the end of Q1 2024.

 

But I simply don't accept that Hornby are going to leave a gap of over  a year without major releases in TT:120 , from the 08 in May 2023 to a next significant release in July -August 2024.

 

Not when we've seen EPs of the Stanier coaches and the HST power cars at Warley , we've seen trial shots of the 50 and we know that the J94 and 57xx just announced in fact went out for tooling 6 months ago

[J-Lewis]

2 hours ago, teletougos said:

Can you ever have enough, really?

Nice.  Is this a kit?

[J-Lewis]

25 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

 

The new locos in question are :

 

Class 37

Class 47

J94

57xx 

Castle class.

Class 31

 

I'm calling them a new announcement because Hornby have announced they are going forward to be produced.

 

Yes they are in the initial brochure, but there has been very widespread scepticism about if and when most of the items in the brochure would actually be produced . Look back at the early pages of this thread and you'll find poster after poster suggesting that TT:120 would never get past the Phase 2 models, that it would be quite a few years before Hornby got as far as those, and the more hardline opponents were expressing extreme scepticism that anything more than the launch range would ever appear.

 

The whole of Phases 3 + 4 were widely dismissed as vapourware or brochureware , and anyone who took any of the Phase 3 + 4 announcements seriously was treated as so obviously naive and unrealistic that their opinion could simply be ignored.

 

Now, just 9 months after the launch we have Hornby stating that 6 locos from Phases 3+4 are going forward for tooling and production . They enter the world of TT-numbers and pre-order off the website (although they haven't yet been added to the Hornby shop)

 

You can't have it both ways .

 

- Either you have to discuss the available range as "everything in the brochure" at which point you have to stop saying "but what can you do with a couple of Gresley Pacifics and an 08?"

 

- Or you accept that Hornby have just announced a near doubling of the locos available in TT:120...

 

 

For the record , I count as Phase 2 :

 

Class 66

Duchess

HST

Class 50 

Stanier coaches

Mk3s 

KFA wagon

MDO 21T

TTA

HAA

 

It was originally suggested the Phases would each be 6 months , with Phase 1 running to Easter, Phase 2 till October 2023 and so on.. Clearly that has slipped - Phase 1 took about 9 months, which would then imply Phase 2 running until the end of Q1 2024.

 

But I simply don't accept that Hornby are going to leave a gap of over  a year without major releases in TT:120 , from the 08 in May 2023 to a next significant release in July -August 2024.

 

Not when we've seen EPs of the Stanier coaches and the HST power cars at Warley , we've seen trial shots of the 50 and we know that the J94 and 57xx just announced in fact went out for tooling 6 months ago

I’m hoping for Class 37s and 31s by early 25.

[Hobby]

19 minutes ago, J-Lewis said:

I’m hoping for Class 37s and 31s by early 25.

 

I'd rather have an early 25 than a 37 or 31!

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

I'd rather have an early 25 than a 37 or 31!

Although I'm more inclined to the 31 (and 37 to a less extent), if we had the choice of another Type 2 then a 25/1 would be preferable! But who knows, despite what others have said I still wouldn't rule out Heljan getting in on the act once more. 

[frobisher]

58 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

I'd rather have an early 25 than a 37 or 31!

 

Keep your fingers crossed for Heljan I'd say speculatively...

[teletougos]

1 hour ago, J-Lewis said:

Nice.  Is this a kit?

Yes. Siggis Modellbahn in Germany did it.