Hornby announce TT:120

[J-Lewis]

Tillig do a ferry van style wagon that is usually available cheaply on eBay.  Not 100% certain it’s a UK loading gauge but it’s a nice enough model considering it’s usually around £10. There are two of them in this eBay job lot right now:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196070757860?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7NGT9XstTyC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=zsrDRh0US3e&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

This thread on suitable continental wagons here might also be of interest 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by J-Lewis
Spilling errers

[Porfuera]

3 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

I've seen multiple UK modelers who were a little unsure about whether or not the Arnold ferry wagons were appropriate for UK layouts. And for good reason- no English language text describing the vans is available on the Arnold website. Imagine spending months designing a wagon, tooling it, manufacturing it and not bothering to put a description on the website!

 

Preferably they could have a brochure or webpage with all the information on cross promotable products.

 

Have you tried the Arnold online shop on the Hornby website? That has descriptions in English - I don't know if this will work for you but you could try this link:

 

https://uk.arnoldmodel.com/catalogue/tt-scale?langPath=arnold-uk&filters[Brand]=&filters[Stock Status]=&filters[Pre-Order]=&filters[Clearance]=&filters[Item Scale]=1:120 Scale&filters[Region Flag]=&filters[DCC Status]=&filters[Era]=&filters[min_price]=0&filters[max_price]=400&filters[mandatory_filter_by][product_group]=Arnold TT Scale&page_id=719&sort-by=1&page=1&inputValueChanged=filters[in_stock]

 

Plus the wagons are labelled with the continental epoch numbers which should be translatable into the UK eras, which should give some idea of which UK stock the Arnold ferry wagons could run with.

 

The Arnold online shop items can also be filtered by Era which gives the date ranges (i.e. the years) for each Epoch number

 

There is also the multi-lingual Hornby International 2023 catalogue available online - the wagon descriptions are a bit short but they are there. Try this - Arnold TT starts at page 103 I think:

 

https://www.trainsdepot.org/manufacturers/pdfs/view/977/hornby_international_catalog_2023_pdf

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Porfuera

[Ravenser]

8 hours ago, Covkid said:

That surely is the huge selling point for TT:120.  You can run full length passenger trains and realistic freights (bank balance permitting).  I imagine a typical East Midlands / South Yorks train of a class 56 and 35 or 36 MGRs would look really impressive in the scale - particularly as each MGR wagon could be very subtly slight different in tones and colour to it's neighbours in the rake.  Similarly a rake of hooded steel coil carriers could present a very impressive "modern image" freight to run.   

 

The huge selling point for TT:120 is that it's getting near enough impossible to model contemporary freight operations in 4mm . There are very very few 4 wheel wagons left in revenue freight traffic. A 66 - the defining 21st century freight loco - is 12" long  in 4mm . A 3'6" - 4' long freight train is a 66 + 3 bogie wagons , which risks looking a bit silly.

 

If you accept the "rule of 3" that a the visible portion of layout should be 3x the length of the longest train , then you need 12' length visible + a 4' fiddle yard to run a freight train that looks absurdly short.... That's 16' , and most contemporary housing doesn't have rooms which have 16' long walls....

 

There is a reason micros have become popular. And post pandemic the balance of the hobby has shifted : there are fewer and smaller shows, and more focus on building small layouts in domestic settings. This translates into a substantial reduction in bookings /opportunities for exhibition layouts - further pushing the emphasis back on home layouts

 

Now obviously N gauge can also offer space reduction. But as someone currently attempting an N gauge modern shunting layout, there are restrictions in N.

 

When you look closely a large majority of N gauge layouts are medium sized continuous circuit layouts . Terminus/fiddle yard layouts are not common in N . I've even heard a number of times the view that "N gauge is not for shunting" . Reasons for this can be found - despite British N's mini-renaissance after Bachmann bought out Farish , in my experience N gauge running is still a generation behind OO. That is - modern N RTR is about on a par with what you could get when you tweaked a Lima or Hornby pancake motored loco to the recognised max...

 

While people have commented that the scale difference between TT:120 and N is modest, it still equates to TT:120 models having twice the volume of N . That is potentially a very significant difference when it comes to packing in a mechanism

 

The big prize for TT:120 may be sensible shunting layouts and branchline termini in spaces where 4mm demands severe compression

[F-UnitMad]

3 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

The products I'm really hoping they release are all the ferry wagons that were used on the continent and in Britain.

Ferry-spec Chemical tankers, yes please!!! And the ubiquitous Cargowaggon, of course, to use as barrier vehicles. 👍😁👌

[GenericRMWebUsername]

34 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

Have you tried the Arnold online shop on the Hornby website? That has descriptions in English - I don't know if this will work for you but you could try this link:

 

https://uk.arnoldmodel.com/catalogue/tt-scale?langPath=arnold-uk&filters[Brand]=&filters[Stock Status]=&filters[Pre-Order]=&filters[Clearance]=&filters[Item Scale]=1:120 Scale&filters[Region Flag]=&filters[DCC Status]=&filters[Era]=&filters[min_price]=0&filters[max_price]=400&filters[mandatory_filter_by][product_group]=Arnold TT Scale&page_id=719&sort-by=1&page=1&inputValueChanged=filters[in_stock]

 

Plus the wagons are labelled with the continental epoch numbers which should be translatable into the UK eras, which should give some idea of which UK stock the Arnold ferry wagons could run with.

 

The Arnold online shop items can also be filtered by Era which gives the date ranges (i.e. the years) for each Epoch number

 

There is also the multi-lingual Hornby International 2023 catalogue available online - the wagon descriptions are a bit short but they are there. Try this - Arnold TT starts at page 103 I think:

 

https://www.trainsdepot.org/manufacturers/pdfs/view/977/hornby_international_catalog_2023_pdf

 

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right that Arnold has an English language webpage. My issue is with the product information that they list. For example, here is how they describe one of the ferry vans:

 

"DR, 2-axle ferryboat refrigerated wagon Tnbs, “Rotkäppchen Sekt”, ep. IV"

 

That doesn't provide too much information for a novice. Compare with Hornby's product description for their TT120 HAA wagon:

 

Built from 1964 to 1977, HAA wagons were built as method to move coal more efficiently, particularly with the aim of improving to supply of coal to power stations. It was intended that trains of these wagons could run in a continuous loop from the colliery to the power station and back, with machinery in place to allow loading and unloading at slow speeds. In reality it was often the case that the infrastructure to allow this type of running did not exist, particularly at the collieries and on the loading side of the journey, but nonetheless these wagons greatly improved coal transfer. With the decline of Britain's coal industry these previously extremely common wagons have now become extremely rare with most having been either scrapped or rebuilt as another form of wagon.

 

While I'm not asking for an essay, I think Hornby should make sure that there is sufficient context for the items they are selling. Adding a few lines about how a ferry wagon was used and what locomotives it could be paired with would help improve the range. One place Accurascale absolutely shines is on the informational documents and graphics they release. RevolutioN also nails that stuff too. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by GenericRMWebUsername

[Les1952]

37 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

 

There is a reason micros have become popular. And post pandemic the balance of the hobby has shifted : there are fewer and smaller shows, and more focus on building small layouts in domestic settings. This translates into a substantial reduction in bookings /opportunities for exhibition layouts - further pushing the emphasis back on home layouts

 

 

There are still plenty of model railway shows around, enough to give my layouts almost a full run up to September 2025.  However as my largest will be the TT gauge Bregstadt at 8 feet by 2 feet 6 ins I can probably fit most venues- oddly enough the smallest is NO PLACE at 7 X 2 feet, and that is the OO one.....

 

Anyone coming to Warley can find me on Stand B7 (as far into the corner as you can get and still be a layout) with Bregenbach im Schwarzwald, where despite the layout only being 8 feet by 2 feet a train leaving the fiddle yard will travel 31 feet before arriving back at the other end of the yard...

 

Bregstadt's successor, Broken Scar, won't be started until I have tried the Hornby J94- if not controllable enough I'm not building a layout round it.  the 08 still has a few issues with Hornby points on Bregstadt- no problems with Peco.

 

Les

 

 

 

[teletougos]

12 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

The huge selling point for TT:120 is that it's getting near enough impossible to model contemporary freight operations in 4mm . There are very very few 4 wheel wagons left in revenue freight traffic. A 66 - the defining 21st century freight loco - is 12" long  in 4mm . A 3'6" - 4' long freight train is a 66 + 3 bogie wagons , which risks looking a bit silly.

 

Good point. 

 

The prototype changed, and the ways it changed took the hobby to TT's door. 

 

People may not know this : tho a Class 66 is far lower & narrower than standard contemporary American freight locos, it has the same overall wheelbase as they do. That wheelbase [ 43'6" between truck centres, 13'7 three axle trucks] came in with the SD40-2, a huge loco, even in HO. Upscaled to OO, that wheelbase is literally & figuratively right up against the buffers for what's acceptable on a small layout.

 

US modellers can use switchers or shorter B-B road locos, a GP15, Paducah geep, Genset etc, on small layouts, but there's not many equivalents in the UK. The big beast has to be shoehorned in somehow. 

 

So going smaller, the choice is either HO (minimal gain), 3mm (no European stock, lose the compatibility) or TT. 

 

Other factors : most current UK passenger trains are permanently coupled trainsets. What's the minimum to give the right impression ?? Five cars at least?  That's a lot of space in 4mm.

 

Further, viz higher volumes inside TT vs N shells : with DCC, many N scale locos have less grunt. Con-Cor's Kato PA1, introduced in 1967, for years the best locomotive in N, could haul 24 bogie vehicles, the latest PA1 made by BLI, only 15.  Could be a factor, tho I don't know much about the performance of UK N diesels. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by teletougos

[Porfuera]

11 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

That doesn't provide too much information for a novice.

 

Are novices that bothered? Just take a look at social media and see what is being run with what. Most novices on there just want locos and wagons that look attractive. And hence Hornby's initial launch of TT:120 with big steamers.

 

Plus I'd say that most newcomers haven't even heard of Arnold - which might be your point - but they probably haven't heard of Peco or Bachmann either, never mind Accurascale or RevolutioN.

 

Once they become more interested in prototypical formations then there are the Epoch numbers vs the Eras and they're mostly young enough to be accustomed to using the Internet for research.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Porfuera

[Revolution Ben]

1 hour ago, Porfuera said:

Plus I'd say that most newcomers haven't even heard of Arnold - which might be your point - but they probably haven't heard of Peco or Bachmann either, never mind Accurascale or RevolutioN.

 

Hi there,

 

This is true.  Revolution will be ten years old in 2024; we have a stand at no fewer than five major shows every year and advertise every month in nearly all the model railway press, yet I am constantly surprised at how many people come up to us at shows, compliment our models and then say they had no idea we existed!

 

In answer to other remarks about lengths of trains and size of market, I can say that with wagons we tend to produce roughly the same quantities in N and 00.  This balances out because while we consistently see a smaller number of separate customers in N, each tends to order more wagons, presumably to make up 'scale length' trains.

 

Having seen the TT:120 Class 50 and HST at a show recently, and having already pre-ordered a 66, I am looking forward to what emerges and as we have said to customers asking at shows we have already identified several models in our range that would be suitable for TT:120.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Revolution Ben

[natterjack]

33 minutes ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

In answer to other remarks about lengths of trains and size of market, I can say that with wagons we tend to produce roughly the same quantities in N and 00.  This balances out because while we consistently see a smaller number of separate customers in N, each tends to order more wagons, presumably to make up 'scale length' trains.

I wonder whether to some extent this might be a reflection of 'club purchasing' and 'domestic layouts' where I suspect the former is predominately 4mm?

[teletougos]

5 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hi there,

 

This is true.  Revolution will be ten years old in 2024; we have a stand at no fewer than five major shows every year and advertise every month in nearly all the model railway press, yet I am constantly surprised at how many people come up to us at shows, compliment our models and then say they had no idea we existed!

I'd be one of those people, and I go to a fair few train shows. So yes the job of gaining visibility is not easy.

 

But I screen a lot of OO out, as it's never going to be a thing I model. So if you were showing OO on your stall, I'd never retain that information. 

 

I focus on things in N or OO9 that could have a use in TT. Larger dia wheels,  chassis, or components like adjustable gauge/wheelbase trucks, cheap loco bodies to harvest detail items from etc

Edited November 22, 2023 by teletougos

[Mike Harvey]

18 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

Oh yeah, you're absolutely right that Arnold has an English language webpage. My issue is with the product information that they list. For example, here is how they describe one of the ferry vans:

 

"DR, 2-axle ferryboat refrigerated wagon Tnbs, “Rotkäppchen Sekt”, ep. IV"

 

That doesn't provide too much information for a novice. Compare with Hornby's product description for their TT120 HAA wagon:

 

 

From when UIC numbering was introduced, if the wagon type does not include a small "f" then it is not:-  1) UK gauge, 2) UK ferry compatible. Typical UK ferry wagons would be Habfis, Ufs, Lfls, Uacfs, Laefss.

 

Most of the ferryboat wagons in the German ranges would see service in Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway using the one-time ferry network there, and relatively few would be found in Sicily, Sardinia and the like.

 

 

[Mike Harvey]

16 minutes ago, teletougos said:

I'd be one of those people, and I go to a fair few train shows. So yes the job of gaining visibility is not easy.

 

But I screen a lot of OO out, as it's never going to be a thing I model. So if you were showing OO on your stall, I'd never retain that information. 

 

I focus on things in N or OO9 that could have a use in TT. Larger dia wheels,  chassis, or components like adjustable gauge/wheelbase trucks, cheap loco bodies to harvest detail items from etc

 

Most of the Revolution range is British N covering from their first model  - the Pendolino - through Mk5 coaching stock, multiple units and modern locomotives on to a host of modern freight wagons - stone hoppers and box wagons, car transporters, ferryvans, tank wagons, as well as some older freight stock and an underground train.  Pity if you missed out on seeing these at an exhibition. They probably have more tooling in recent years than any of the established UK N gauge manufacturers.  

[J-Lewis]

Revolution wagons are great, if I still modelled OO I’d definitely have picked some up.  Hopefully they will step into the TT market.  Those Twin CargoWaggons would surely be a good choice for a TT version given their additional European sales potential.   I’d love to see their VEA vans converted over too.  Revolution would be a real boon to the scale.

[teletougos]

2 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

 

Most of the Revolution range is British N covering from their first model  - the Pendolino - through Mk5 coaching stock, multiple units and modern locomotives on to a host of modern freight wagons - stone hoppers and box wagons, car transporters, ferryvans, tank wagons, as well as some older freight stock and an underground train.  Pity if you missed out on seeing these at an exhibition. They probably have more tooling in recent years than any of the established UK N gauge manufacturers.  

 I'll keep an eye out now, especially as they seem like TT 'possibles'.  

 

I don't know much about how many new releases there have been in N over recent years. Most of what I buy is secondhand. 

[GenericRMWebUsername]

19 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hi there,

 

This is true.  Revolution will be ten years old in 2024; we have a stand at no fewer than five major shows every year and advertise every month in nearly all the model railway press, yet I am constantly surprised at how many people come up to us at shows, compliment our models and then say they had no idea we existed!

 

In answer to other remarks about lengths of trains and size of market, I can say that with wagons we tend to produce roughly the same quantities in N and 00.  This balances out because while we consistently see a smaller number of separate customers in N, each tends to order more wagons, presumably to make up 'scale length' trains.

 

Having seen the TT:120 Class 50 and HST at a show recently, and having already pre-ordered a 66, I am looking forward to what emerges and as we have said to customers asking at shows we have already identified several models in our range that would be suitable for TT:120.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

Hornby better do a good job on their Class 66, because they won't be able to fool you on any detail! Congratulations on your new locomotive! It looks superb! I'm also impressed by the service that lets you choose a running number. It's so much more affordable than aftermarket renumbering options, and I suspect it will be higher quality too. I would gladly buy TT wagons from Revolution. Obviously, as a small business you have to move methodically. But it would represent a huge win to the entire British TT scale to have you join the cause. 

Cheers! 

[GenericRMWebUsername]

21 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

Are novices that bothered? Just take a look at social media and see what is being run with what. Most novices on there just want locos and wagons that look attractive. And hence Hornby's initial launch of TT:120 with big steamers.

 

Plus I'd say that most newcomers haven't even heard of Arnold - which might be your point - but they probably haven't heard of Peco or Bachmann either, never mind Accurascale or RevolutioN.

 

Once they become more interested in prototypical formations then there are the Epoch numbers vs the Eras and they're mostly young enough to be accustomed to using the Internet for research.

Maybe not initially, but I believe that the hobby experience is about expanding your knowledge. 10 months ago I knew pretty much nothing about British railways. I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole and I found the Hornby TT120 range and thought it looked like a good size. I was also enamored by the app control that seemed way simpler than DCC. I had toyed with doing a model railroad (I'm from America so it's the appropriate word 🤣), but I couldn't figure out all the gauges and the control and the wiring. Plus, I would look at the prices and be scared off. Thanks in large part to the TT120 range, I now know way more than when I started out. I've started visiting website like this, reading articles, and following blogs. 

 

Initially, I was aiming to have what was probably just a train set. Now I want to have increasingly more accurate rolling stock and placemaking. The progression from novice to... Well still novice, but not quite as novice was gradual. Manufacturer resources are useful guide rails. Descriptions, brochures, and posts all assist in teaching me about the locomotives and other rolling stock I'm modeling. 

 

14 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

From when UIC numbering was introduced, if the wagon type does not include a small "f" then it is not:-  1) UK gauge, 2) UK ferry compatible. Typical UK ferry wagons would be Habfis, Ufs, Lfls, Uacfs, Laefss.

 

Most of the ferryboat wagons in the German ranges would see service in Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway using the one-time ferry network there, and relatively few would be found in Sicily, Sardinia and the like.

 

 

Oh, this is useful information! Yeah, for the Hornby/Arnold cross promotional idea to work, it would have to be ones that actually worked in Britain. That's why I think the prototypes ModelleBahnUnion have modeled are compelling. You leverage the international nature of the Hornby/Arnold umbrella. More of the wagons like Tbnhs 30 that were built for the right loading gauge. 

[Porfuera]

43 minutes ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

Maybe not initially, but I believe that the hobby experience is about expanding your knowledge. 10 months ago I knew pretty much nothing about British railways. I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole and I found the Hornby TT120 range and thought it looked like a good size. I was also enamored by the app control that seemed way simpler than DCC. I had toyed with doing a model railroad (I'm from America so it's the appropriate word 🤣), but I couldn't figure out all the gauges and the control and the wiring. Plus, I would look at the prices and be scared off. Thanks in large part to the TT120 range, I now know way more than when I started out. I've started visiting website like this, reading articles, and following blogs. 

 

Initially, I was aiming to have what was probably just a train set. Now I want to have increasingly more accurate rolling stock and placemaking. The progression from novice to... Well still novice, but not quite as novice was gradual. Manufacturer resources are useful guide rails. Descriptions, brochures, and posts all assist in teaching me about the locomotives and other rolling stock I'm modeling. 

 

That was exactly my point - isn't part of the enjoyment of a hobby about finding information for yourself? Plus this is so much easier nowadays with the advent of the internet.

 

Information from the manufacturers is certainly a good thing but we don't need to be spoon-fed every last detail, and quite often the details vary depending on time and/or location. In the case of some of Hornby's TT:120 information it doesn't seem to be 100% accurate in any case, so for anyone that is bothered about getting their formations prototypically correct then research is vital.

 

Personally I'm not so bothered because there will always be compromises somewhere and at the current time that is mainly due to the limited choice of locos and rolling stock.

[teletougos]

On 23/11/2023 at 07:40, GenericRMWebUsername said:

Hornby better do a good job on their Class 66, because they won't be able to fool you on any detail!

It is UK steam where there will always have to be cheats, like the fat A4 nose. 

 

You will see compromises on other steam too. It's unavoidable. 

 

Diesels and electrics, less so. 

[ixionmodels]

On 22/11/2023 at 22:43, Revolution Ben said:

Having seen the TT:120 Class 50 and HST at a show recently, and having already pre-ordered a 66, I am looking forward to what emerges and as we have said to customers asking at shows we have already identified several models in our range that would be suitable for TT:120.

Ben’s observations are spot on. Successful model railway manufacturers are canny. (If they’re still in business, that’s all the evidence you need.) As I noted a few pages back, we follow the trends as well as the money.  The great thing about the early years of a new scale is that so many potential models are up for grabs, and crazy personal favourites can be considered, as well as the ‘tried and true’ obvious classics like the GWR staples: 14XX, Collett 0-6-0 and small Prairie; B-Set, Toad brakevan… Plus the Jinty, J94, J72 etc etc - you know the list. 

You can be sure that manufacturers who know their British model production history  will be recalling how OO and N got started, and what locos and stock were offered then that built momentum and the now loyal customer base. Their number one consideration is, of course: Is there a profit in it for us? Hornby (and of course Peco) have done a remarkable thing in offering track, accessories, locos and stock in whole new scale without an existing base of kits and users, and deserve plaudits for taking what had to be a gamble. A massive one, in Hornby’s case. And now the smaller sharks will be musing on whether nipping in and biting off a chunk of TT120 might be to their advantage. I think some will do it, so long as they can sell direct for a while - as Hornby did - in order to return their investment faster which makes the next model possible sooner. Regardless of the selling method, I feel pretty confident in saying that in a few years’ time the range of available and announced/promised UK outline TT120 models will be vastly different to what is on the list now. 
So here’s a fun speculation: which existing company do you think might be the next to join Hornby and Peco in RTR 2.5mm scale? (Spoiler alert: it’s not Ixion Models. 😄)

Edited November 24, 2023 by ixionmodels

[natterjack]

2 hours ago, ixionmodels said:

So here’s a fun speculation: which existing company do you think might be the next to join Hornby and Peco in RTR 2.5mm scale? (Spoiler alert: it’s not Ixion Models. 😄)

A company with the existing cad work for a modern wagon or two for the Class 66? Good long term bulk sale potential without delving into new mechanisms and electronics.

[Ravenser]

On 22/11/2023 at 09:40, teletougos said:

 

 

Other factors : most current UK passenger trains are permanently coupled trainsets. What's the minimum to give the right impression ?? Five cars at least?  That's a lot of space in 4mm.

 

 

Oddly enough passenger trains are much less of an issue.

 

The minimum to give the right impression is a 1 car Class 153 , More realistically there are a lot of 2 car units around, and a lot of the time they work as a single unit.

 

The catch is that there's a lack of interest in modelling multiple unit passenger operations, because they tend to be operationally quite simple

[J-Lewis]

2 hours ago, natterjack said:

A company with the existing cad work for a modern wagon or two for the Class 66? Good long term bulk sale potential without delving into new mechanisms and electronics.

Yes exactly.  It’s almost certainly going to be wagons and coaches before we see a loco from another manufacturer, there are so many opportunities to generate sales without needing the expense of the electronics and mechanicals needed for a loco.

 

Although I could see a European manufacturer using existing mechanisms to create a UK loco if they have the right wheelbase.  MTB for example, have some locos which are suitable for conversion as Lincoln bodies, so they might be a good candidate for bringing a loco to market.

Edited November 24, 2023 by J-Lewis

[Ravenser]

7 hours ago, ixionmodels said:

So here’s a fun speculation: which existing company do you think might be the next to join Hornby and Peco in RTR 2.5mm scale? (Spoiler alert: it’s not Ixion Models. 😄)

 

Well, I am pretty confident about the existing companies who won't get involved: Bachmann, Dapol and Accurascale

 

Heljan flirted with the idea. RevolutionBen's comments are very interesting. And there is the question of who was behind Gaugemaster's kite-flying about a TT:120 Class 66. I'm convinced that a Continental manufacturer with existing TT interests must have been behind that.,

 

So my speculation about further entrants into British outline TT:120 would be:

 

1. A Continental manufacturer with TT interests (Tillig, Roco, Piko or whoever) 

2. Heljan might decide to go for it after all

3. Revolution?

4. Rapido??

 

But I would be doubtful that we will see any model from anyone bar Hornby on sale in the next 5 years. Other players will want to be certain that there's a significant market long-term before investing in tooling

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Ravenser
to replace a 20th century British bus comapny with a 21st century German RTR manufacturer..

[teletougos]

33 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

Gaugemaster's kite-flying about a TT:120 Class 66. I'm convinced that a Continental manufacturer with existing TT interests must have been behind that.,

 

 

Lemke or Hobbytrain ? One of them apparently bought Mehanotechnika's projects.

 

Mehano had announced a Class 66 back in 2014 which, depending how far the project advanced, may have had good tooling if their Blue Tiger was anything to go by.

 

Don't know who was doing Mehano's manufacturing at this time ;  I believe their older factory was destroyed in the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s.