Pictures of 16t minerals being unloaded.

[Wickham Green too]

1 minute ago, Hal Nail said:

I would imagine even less prone to rust patches than 16t minerals!

There'd be one round every single bolt head !

[Hal Nail]

Related question and I appreciate irrlevant very quickly, but were the insides painted when new or after a refurb?

 

(16t, not wooden ones)

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Wickham Green too]

Never seen an answer to that in print - but looking at 'The 4mm Coal wagon', there are a handful of high-angle photos that seem to show a uniform interior colour darker that the grey outside ...... but is that rust or red lead paint ? ( The sharp division from the grey top edge suggests the latter to me.)

Edited November 20, 2022 by Wickham Green too

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I've never come to a satisfactory way to create the bowed-effect on empty plastic wagons. For loaded ones it's easy; just jam in some cross-bracing. But for empty plastic ones...😗

Any ideas?



 

[Fat Controller]

18 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

I've never come to a satisfactory way to create the bowed-effect on empty plastic wagons. For loaded ones it's easy; just jam in some cross-bracing. But for empty plastic ones...😗

Any ideas?



 

I put a few 'dimples ' in an Airfix 16t kit, using the round side of a ball-pein  hammer which I had warmed.

[Michael Hodgson]

16 hours ago, Ian Smeeton said:

Some methods are more extreme than others.

 

 

 

Regards

 

Ian

Wouldn't it have been easier to shovel out through the end door?  Perhaps it would help if he jumped up and down to get it swinging a bit.  I assume none of the wagons there had bottom doors.

 

I see the caption describes it as a ten-tonner.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

47 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

I put a few 'dimples ' in an Airfix 16t kit, using the round side of a ball-pein  hammer which I had warmed.

I once (long ago...) tried to create realistic smoke effects under a Tri-ang (plastic) signal gantry and footbridge by holding a piece of burning plastic sprue beneath them. Not one of my best ideas...🥴

[Fat Controller]

34 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Wouldn't it have been easier to shovel out through the end door?  Perhaps it would help if he jumped up and down to get it swinging a bit.  I assume none of the wagons there had bottom doors.

 

I see the caption describes it as a ten-tonner.

Lifting the end-door would be no mean feat, given they are top-hinged.

[Michael Hodgson]

53 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Lifting the end-door would be no mean feat, given they are top-hinged.

You don't need to lift it, just undo the catches.  Any coal leaning against it should tend to open it enough to fall out.

 

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You don't need to lift it, just undo the catches.  Any coal leaning against it should tend to open it enough to fall out.

 

 

 

That was the way it was done at some ports, with the wagon lifted on a tilting platform.  Pics and possibly film somewhere on the Web (and maybe even in this thread already) but I can't find them atm.  I don't think you'd want to be in the wagon when it was tipped unless you were after a sea voyage in a collier.

[Flying Pig]

4 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

I've never come to a satisfactory way to create the bowed-effect on empty plastic wagons. For loaded ones it's easy; just jam in some cross-bracing. But for empty plastic ones...😗

Any ideas?



 

 

Put some non-melty bracing in to the desired shape and warm *gently* with a hair dryer?  Allow to cool before removing bracing. Probably restrict heating to the upper parts of the sides if you still want the wagon to run square.

 

Edit - for batch production do it before adding solebars and axleguards; place wagon on flat surface; place weighted piece of flat metal inside wagon to maintain flatness and act as heat sink.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Flying Pig
Wild ideas.

[Il Grifone]

Yes, ignoring the bolts, but I was specifically referring to the rubbish left inside rather than rust patches.

 

Re dents in the sides:

Possibly a use for bits from that chunk of plastic that is supposed to represent the load for Airfix/Dapol mineral wagons. Incidently why was it designed with the hump to one side rather than central?

It's actually rather good as plastic loads go and excellent if covered with a layer of the real thing (I have a lump of anthracite for just this purpose!)

The sides are several times thicker than the prototype making actual denting rather difficult (scalewise of course).

Edited November 21, 2022 by Il Grifone
chuck?? > chunk

[Peter Kazmierczak]

7 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Put some non-melty bracing in to the desired shape and warm *gently* with a hair dryer?  Allow to cool before removing bracing. Probably restrict heating to the upper parts of the sides if you still want the wagon to run square.

Now that's a thought. I'll let someone else try it first though...😉

[Fat Controller]

36 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

 

That was the way it was done at some ports, with the wagon lifted on a tilting platform.  Pics and possibly film somewhere on the Web (and maybe even in this thread already) but I can't find them atm.  I don't think you'd want to be in the wagon when it was tipped unless you were after a sea voyage in a collier.

Both Goole and Preston used this method, I believe.

[Cwmtwrch]

4 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

were the insides painted when new or after a refurb?

 

4 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Never seen an answer to that in print - but looking at 'The 4mm Coal wagon', there are a handful of high-angle photos that seem to show a uniform interior colour darker that the grey outside ...... but is that rust or red lead paint ? ( The sharp division from the grey top edge suggests the latter to me.)

Some years ago, I tried to answer this question, with a complete lack of success. Lots of suggestions, but no conclusive evidence. The suggestions included both yes and no, production from Corten steel, and others. I do not have 'The 4mm Coal wagon', so can't comment on that, but am aware of one b&w photograph of the inside of a brand new 16T, which was a very dark colour which I interpret as black. The wagon was specially prepared for a public exhibition, with white wheel rims, so the interior may be non-standard as well, although there seems to be little point. The chassis is gloss black, but the inside is definitely matt, so my guess, for what it is worth, is bituminous paint, although others have come up with valid reasons why it isn't. I'd still like to see some convincing evidence. The answer is presumably the same for 21T and 24.5T minerals as well, which also seem to have been a very dark colour internally.

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

There'd be one round every single bolt head !

 

As far as I'm aware, the floor boards of wooden wagons were nailed down, not bolted. A bolt hole every 7" vertically through the solebars would considerably weaken the wagon!

[Hal Nail]

24 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

but am aware of one b&w photograph of the inside of a brand new 16T, which was a very dark colour which I interpret as black.

 

Based on various photos and in the absence of anything else to go on, I use black and then a wash or powders. Rather like the real thing i dont have many pics of the inside but something like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Hal Nail
typo

[Fat Controller]

8 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Based on various photos and in the absence of anything else to go on, I use black and then a wash or powders. Rather like the real thing i dont have many pics of the inside but something like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the ones I remember seeing in South Wales in the late '60s-early '70s.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

As far as I'm aware, the floor boards of wooden wagons were nailed down, ...

OK - there'd be a rust patch round every bolt head ( sides and ends of wagon ) or nail head ( floor ), then.  🙃 

[Artless Bodger]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You don't need to lift it, just undo the catches.  Any coal leaning against it should tend to open it enough to fall out.

 

So far so good, then once the coal at the end had fallen out the wagon, being unbalanced, would flip back, door slam shut and the rest of coal be tipped over the fixed end -  a sort of Hoffnung bricklayer type scene. Using the side door you are shovelling from near the c of g. How much coal to fill a pacific tender, 8T?

[bécasse]

I believe that early 16T minerals were finished internally with a black bituminous paint (that the GWR had been very fond off) but that later ones were just painted with body colour. I have seen photographic evidence of the latter.

[Il Grifone]

The floors of wooden wagons were probably nailed down, but the sides, ends, and doors were full of bolts. We usually call them rivets, but AFAIK these were only used on steel wagons (and maybe not even then?). It's a lot easier to remove a bolt than a rivet!

 

Tender capacity - 8 tons for an A4, 10 for a Coronation. The Southern got away with only 5.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Il Grifone

[Wickham Green too]

Yeah  -  trying to expand a red hot rivet into wood doesn't produce the tight fit you might wish for ! 🥴

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yeah  -  trying to expand a red hot rivet into wood doesn't produce the tight fit you might wish for ! 🥴

But didn't the GWR use rivets in sandwich frames - I seem to recall reading something about that in Holcoft many years ago?

[Wickham Green too]

Indeed - but the rivets were expanded into the 'bread' of the sandwich and then pulled the two 'slices' tight onto the 'filling'.