Rapido OO Gauge GWR B Set coaches

[The Fatadder]

Finally got round to placing my order for the Kingsbridge branded version from Rainbow last week.  Now a final push to determine what the livery the other Kingsbridge branded set were in before orders close….

[gwrrob]

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

 Now a final push to determine what the livery the other Kingsbridge branded set were in before orders close….

 

My money would be chocolate and cream with shirt button Rich @The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

22 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

My money would be chocolate and cream with shirt button Rich @The Fatadder

My logic is the same, but I would much rather it be anything else so I’d be gutted to buy one and then find it was in a different livery 

 

[DutyDruid]

So, I've come to this thread a bit late...

 

I've recently become the co-owner of a 00 Gauge layout called Wiveliscombe which we bought "sans stock", oh, and Barnstaple MRC are building a layout of Milverton in the same era as Wivey - BR(W).  As the SR half of Wivey's new ownership team I'm playing catch up on the ex-GWR side of the operation and in another thread on RMWeb @Pteremy drew my attention to the suitability of these B Set coaches for use on the old D&S line between Taunton and Barnstaple.  

 

Now, as a dyed in the wool Southern man I know exactly where to go to find coach set allocations for ex-SR stock but I'm still wet behind the ears where ex-GWR stuff is concerned.  I've done a bit of digging both here and on other websites and I've turned up some useful hints (including a link to something @Miss Prism posted in the B-Set allocations thread) but I've completely failed to turn up any suggestions as to whether any of these Rapido B-Sets are suitable for use in the Taunton area and more specifically on the D&S line.

 

Exam question: Are any of the crimson or maroon sets Rapido are doing suitable for the Taunton area?  Or do I just get one and indulge in a bit of judicious weathering?  

 

TIA

 

Elliott

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, DutyDruid said:

So, I've come to this thread a bit late...

 

I've recently become the co-owner of a 00 Gauge layout called Wiveliscombe which we bought "sans stock", oh, and Barnstaple MRC are building a layout of Milverton in the same era as Wivey - BR(W).  As the SR half of Wivey's new ownership team I'm playing catch up on the ex-GWR side of the operation and in another thread on RMWeb @Pteremy drew my attention to the suitability of these B Set coaches for use on the old D&S line between Taunton and Barnstaple.  

 

Now, as a dyed in the wool Southern man I know exactly where to go to find coach set allocations for ex-SR stock but I'm still wet behind the ears where ex-GWR stuff is concerned.  I've done a bit of digging both here and on other websites and I've turned up some useful hints (including a link to something @Miss Prism posted in the B-Set allocations thread) but I've completely failed to turn up any suggestions as to whether any of these Rapido B-Sets are suitable for use in the Taunton area and more specifically on the D&S line.

 

Exam question: Are any of the crimson or maroon sets Rapido are doing suitable for the Taunton area?  Or do I just get one and indulge in a bit of judicious weathering?  

 

TIA

 

Elliott

The list at the end of this page is the best I know:

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/b-set-notes.html

 

You can see that a number of E140 pairs were allocated to Bristol Division. If you need specific numbers, someone else might be able to go deeper into the Bristol Division workings, otherwise your best bet is photographs.

[melmerby]

35 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

The list at the end of this page is the best I know:

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/b-set-notes.html

 

You can see that a number of E140 pairs were allocated to Bristol Division. If you need specific numbers, someone else might be able to go deeper into the Bristol Division workings, otherwise your best bet is photographs.

I've spotted one mistake

6468 is shown as a single E140 to lot 1455

However Harris shows it as a 58' E131 composite from 1927 of a completely different design

 

Probably not relevant to the Bristol workings.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

I've spotted one mistake

6468 is shown as a single E140 to lot 1455

However Harris shows it as a 58' E131 composite from 1927 of a completely different design

 

Probably not relevant to the Bristol workings.

Well spotted. Further up the list we see an entry for "Lot 1407 6460 + 6969 Launceston No 2" which also refers to 6468 and 6469, neither of which were E140s as far as I can see.

 

As I haven't got a searchable list by running numbers I can't dig into this any further.

 

@Miss Prism?

[Miss Prism]

Oh. I've got to track down some old Mike South and John Lewis files, and that may take some while.

 

[Miss Prism]

I have a significant problem with uploading updated gwr.org.uk files at the moment. It is hosted on the dreadful Ionos, which has very solid hosting, but whose software is awful. It's webspace explorer has had major problems for many months, and I've just got off the phone to them after an hour, and things are getting worse rather than better. I wouldn't normally worry about this too much, but my other (ftp) route is thwarted because my ISP, the truly appalling Virgin Media, has blocked my IP from accessing Ionos' webspace url(s). I have been in dispute with them for about 6 months now, and of course they will not admit anything.

 

So if gwr.org.uk disappears soon, you know why.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Oh. I've got to track down some old Mike South and John Lewis files, and that may take some while.

 

Perhaps to save you time, the Mike South file I have shows the same information as above (it was probably the source for GWRorg, back in Mikkel's time).

[Miss Prism]

5 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

(it was probably the source for GWRorg, back in Mikkel's time).

 

No. I started the B-set page (originating from Tim Venton's old site), and gradually added information. Mikkel is not to blame!

 

I can't remember now whether I cross-checked with Harris. I think that will be the first step.

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

No. I started the B-set page (originating from Tim Venton's old site), and gradually added information. Mikkel is not to blame!

 

I can't remember now whether I cross-checked with Harris. I think that will be the first step.

 

My apologies to both of you!

 

If there were a version of the Harris Appendix sorted by running number that would be most interesting.

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

If there were a version of the Harris Appendix sorted by running number that would be most interesting.

 

https://mmrs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/GW-coach-numbers.pdf

 

 

[St Enodoc]

18 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

https://mmrs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/GW-coach-numbers.pdf

 

 

Thanks! That will be very useful.

[Miss Prism]

3 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks! That will be very useful.

 

Available in other formats - see here.

 

[DutyDruid]

14 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

You can see that a number of E140 pairs were allocated to Bristol Division. If you need specific numbers, someone else might be able to go deeper into the Bristol Division workings, otherwise your best bet is photographs.

 

Thanks.  Done a lot of reading this morning but one piece of information is eluding me at the moment.

 

As a dyed in the wool "Southern Man" the way that I understand the word "Division" in this context can be explained as follows.  The old SR/BR(S) system had 3 divisions:

• Western Division that roughly equated to the old LSWR system
• Central Division that roughly equated to the LBSCR system
• Eastern Division that was mostly made up of the Kent lines.

In this context, what is the extent of the "Bristol Division"?

 

Thanks.

 

Elliott

[Tim Dubya]

17 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

 

Thanks.  Done a lot of reading this morning but one piece of information is eluding me at the moment.

 

As a dyed in the wool "Southern Man" the way that I understand the word "Division" in this context can be explained as follows.  The old SR/BR(S) system had 3 divisions:

• Western Division that roughly equated to the old LSWR system
• Central Division that roughly equated to the LBSCR system
• Eastern Division that was mostly made up of the Kent lines.

In this context, what is the extent of the "Bristol Division"?

 

Thanks.

 

Elliott

 

Glad you're doing all this work for me Elliott 😜

 

 

 

Edited February 24 by Tim Dubya
photo

[DutyDruid]

28 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

 

 

That looks like an M7 and an ex- GWR coach that I don't recognise?  One of the things I have been told is that it was very common for ex-SR locos to haul ex-GW coaching sets and ex-GW locos to haul ex-LSWR sets on the D&S.  

[Tim Dubya]

32 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

That looks like an M7 and an ex- GWR coach that I don't recognise?  One of the things I have been told is that it was very common for ex-SR locos to haul ex-GW coaching sets and ex-GW locos to haul ex-LSWR sets on the D&S.  

 

It's one of the new Dapol Toplight Mainline & City Coaches Elliott.  It will find itself at the end of a (very) sleepy ex-LSWR branchline in due course.

[The Johnster]

TTBOMK, 'Divisions' on the GW were based on a hierarchy and set into areas.  IIRC (I don't always RC so check before taking my word for it), the Divisions were London, Bristol, Newton Abbott, Worcester, Wolverhampton, Newport, and Neath, and included Oswestry after the grouping.  A division had a main loco depot with extensive workshop repair facilities that could in fact undertake almost everything short of a full overhaul, or was adjacent to a main works as at Wolverhampton Stafford Road. 

 

This devolution continued into the C&W departments, and everything else as well.  It was carried over into BR practice in the shedcodes, 81A London, 82A Bristol, &c, with a Cardiff Valleys division added in the 88 series.  This was extensively re-organised with new numbers in the late 50s, Newport Divn. becoming Cardiff and the 88 series being discontinued.

[Hal Nail]

In BR days a lot of the Barnstaple trains I've seen in various books are longer rakes, often Hawksworths. Perhaps why they used Moguls were obviously more powerful than small prairies, which are probably most often associated with the 2 coach B sets.

 

That's not to suggest a B set would look out of place given their extensive use on West Country branches generally, but I don't know of they were actually regulars on that line?

 

Edot: Useful gallery here but no B sets

 

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/taunton-to-barnstaple.html

Edited February 25 by Hal Nail

[DutyDruid]

37 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

TTBOMK, 'Divisions' on the GW were based on a hierarchy and set into areas.  IIRC (I don't always RC so check before taking my word for it), the Divisions were London, Bristol, Newton Abbott, Worcester, Wolverhampton, Newport, and Neath, and included Oswestry after the grouping.  A division had a main loco depot with extensive workshop repair facilities that could in fact undertake almost everything short of a full overhaul, or was adjacent to a main works as at Wolverhampton Stafford Road. 

 

Thank you Sir!  Very informative for a GWR newbie.  Unfortunately, for me at least, the waters are now a bit muddier.  Looking at this Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Railways_shed_codes it seems that the places I'm interested in (Taunton, Barnstaple, the D&S et al) actually belonged to the Newton Abbot Division (83A), although some of the places that are mentioned on @Miss Prism's gwr.org.uk website did seem to have sets transferred in and out of the Bristol sphere of influence.  All told, this means that plumping for a B-Set that belongs to Bristol Division (82A) possibly won't be a true representation of a set that actually worked the D&S.  Oh well, worse things happen at sea...

 

Think I'll just have to plump for the set that looks best and be damned for my choice.  As I keep saying, I'm a dyed in the wool Southern man so I'm already doomed in most people's eyes anyway.

[DutyDruid]

32 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

That's not to suggest a B set would look out of place given their extensive use on West Country branches generally, but I don't know of they were actually regulars on that line?

 

My co-owner of the layout is actually the author of the definitive books on the D&S and I'm pretty certain I've seen pictures in the books of B-Sets in the books so "that's good enough for me".  Thinking about it, if I could dig the books out and look at every picture I could possibly glean some coach numbers.

[Hal Nail]

13 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

 

My co-owner of the layout is actually the author of the definitive books on the D&S and I'm pretty certain I've seen pictures in the books of B-Sets in the books so "that's good enough for me"

Ah fair enough! In all my books I've only got one of my branch (Bodmin) with a number showing but fortunately that's all you need!

[melmerby]

13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

If there were a version of the Harris Appendix sorted by running number that would be most interesting.

I've translated the Harris info into a database (*.dbf format), which can be searched, I have all the lots in but haven't finished tidying it up.

I still find errors when I open it!☹️

Unfortunately RMWeb doesn't support dbf files or even zip, so I can't upload it.