Electric bicycles

[rockershovel]

I've been thinking about electric bicycles for my wife and I in the coming year. 

 

From my (fairly cursory) initial research its clear there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. 

 

I thought it likely that there would be forum members with experience of the subject? 

 

[ColinK]

My wife and I have had electric bikes for several years. Have to say we are delighted with them, great for hills or cycling into a headwind.  The only downsides are the cost and weight. I use mine mainly for cycling to work (in good weather) which does help recoup the cost, plus a little recreational cycling.  Ours are insured, not just for theft, but for accidents too.  You will need a sturdy lock, the insurance company specifies the standard of lock, more expense, but a cheap lock is false economy.

 

Like most things, you get what you pay for. I recommend you go to one or more good bike shops who will advise you and get the bike set up for you eg correct saddle height, correct distance from the handlebars, which does make a difference.

 

We bought ours from Cycle Heaven in York who have been excellent, we’ve no connection with them, just happy customers. The bikes we have are made by Gazelle, a Dutch company so they are made to last.

[Lochgorm]

Go for it!  I write as a happy rider for many years.  I use mine for my weekly commute in summer.  Also it is invaluable for accessing the rail network by making the 5 mile journey to my nearest railhead.  Therefore my bike has gone all over the country usually by crossing London from Paddington to KX.  The bike is a favoured means of transport to social functions as I can relax about drink/drive laws 😀

 

I would take the sound advice about finding a good dealer.  The best bikes have a Bosch motor on the crank.  I am considering replacing mine and due to anno domine am thinking at getting a step through.  One reaches a point where I have difficulty getting my leg over 😩

 

The downside is expect to pay up to £3000 for a good one.

 

Charlie

[Derekl]

"The bike is a favoured means of transport to social functions as I can relax about drink/drive laws"

Just bear in mind that being over the limit on a bicycle is the same offence as driving when over the limit. If caught, you lose your licence to drive, although I agree that it is less likely to happen and you are much less of a threat to others on a bike than in a car.

[Wheatley]

Beware if planning to take them on the train. All TOCs currently carry e-bikes but usually with the proviso that they must fit in a standard bike space/rack and the details vary from TOC to TOC.  The ones which look more like an electric moped may not fit and you won't be allowed to just dump it in the wheelchair space. 

 

E-scooters are a different can of worms altogether; expect them to be banned across most of the network before too long, they already are on TfL, Merseyrail, Northern and LNER, with others likely to follow suit. The issue with e-scooters is their pyromaniac tendencies, which the road-legal (and therefore better regulated) e-bikes don't have. 

 

And yes, one if my former bosses once got done for being drunk in charge of a bicycle. 

[2mmMark]

Another route is to go second hand.  I found a decent used Freego Eagle on Ebay by searching for "nearest ebike, collection only".  Collection-only deters buyers so I was the only bidder and got it for £410.  It came with a refurbished battery pack, which alone is worth about £350-400.  As it was local, about 3 miles away, the seller allowed me to test ride it before bidding.  It is quite a heavy bike but the stepthru design makes it easy to manage. 

It needed some regular bicycle servicing, gears re-indexing (I replaced the Shimano shifter in the end), new brake pads and a little tidying up.  I fitted new gear and brake cables just to be on the safe side and also a frame lock, as the frame had the fittings for one.  A GPS bicycle speedo shows speed and distance.  All in all, I was on the road with a serviceable practical e-bike for less than £500.

Something else I found were shopping "bags for life" with built-in rack clips made by Madison.  Incredibly handy things.

Mark
 

[2mmMark]

23 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

Beware if planning to take them on the train. All TOCs currently carry e-bikes but usually with the proviso that they must fit in a standard bike space/rack and the details vary from TOC to TOC.  The ones which look more like an electric moped may not fit and you won't be allowed to just dump it in the wheelchair space. 

 

E-scooters are a different can of worms altogether; expect them to be banned across most of the network before too long, they already are on TfL, Merseyrail, Northern and LNER, with others likely to follow suit. The issue with e-scooters is their pyromaniac tendencies, which the road-legal (and therefore better regulated) e-bikes don't have. 

 

And yes, one if my former bosses once got done for being drunk in charge of a bicycle. 

E-scooters should be banned completely. They are purely toys for the lazy & feckless.

[fulton]

15 minutes ago, 2mmMark said:

E-scooters should be banned completely. They are purely toys for the lazy & feckless.

They are banned, except on private land with the owners permission, but you would never know that from the numbers out and about!

[eastwestdivide]

1 hour ago, Lochgorm said:

The bike is a favoured means of transport to social functions as I can relax about drink/drive laws 😀

Also to consider - a work colleague of mine sustained a nasty head injury from crashing after drinking and cycling. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

From my cursory investigation of ebikes, the most repeated piece of advice I got was to get one with the motor and control gubbins on the pedals rather than the back wheel, better for the nuances of automatically adjusting power whilst surmounting the hilly bits supposedly, of which we have quite a few hereabouts.

I've stalled a little into my investigations until I find out whether a bike of any type is medically ok for a pair of osteo arthritic knees, if anyone has any experience it would be much appreciated.

 

Mike.

[2mmMark]

1 hour ago, fulton said:

They are banned, except on private land with the owners permission, but you would never know that from the numbers out and about!

 

I'm aware of that.  The word "completely" ought give the context of my remark.  Removed from sale entirely and any still being used confiscated and crushed, as per any uninsured illegal motor vehicle

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by 2mmMark

[Lochgorm]

3 hours ago, Derekl said:

"The bike is a favoured means of transport to social functions as I can relax about drink/drive laws"

Just bear in mind that being over the limit on a bicycle is the same offence as driving when over the limit. If caught, you lose your licence to drive, although I agree that it is less likely to happen and you are much less of a threat to others on a bike than in a car.

Not true!  Although a long time ago I was told that is the case in Germany.

I have a Raleigh Motus and where necessary book it to take with me on trains.  It fits into those dreadful cupboards on those Hitachi ICE/Azumas where everything struggles to fit.  The most stringent regulations were to take the bike on the Caledonian Sleeper but it complied and fitted.
 

Charlie

 

[Nearholmer]

There’s a cycling thread on here, wherein at least one, and possibly more participants know a lot about e-bikes.

[Bernard Lamb]

Please ensure that you not only insure the ebike for peace of mind but more importantly it is essential to take out third party cover before venturing onto public roads. It might not be you fault if you have a collision that involves injury to another person, but cover for any legal costs and the possibility of being sued is always present and needs to be provided for.

Bernard

[fodenway]

4 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

From my cursory investigation of ebikes, the most repeated piece of advice I got was to get one with the motor and control gubbins on the pedals rather than the back wheel, better for the nuances of automatically adjusting power whilst surmounting the hilly bits supposedly, of which we have quite a few hereabouts.

I've stalled a little into my investigations until I find out whether a bike of any type is medically ok for a pair of osteo arthritic knees, if anyone has any experience it would be much appreciated.

 

Mike.

Whilst my knees are not exactly arthritic, they are both approaching seventy years old and have had a pretty hard life. I have a vintage 10-speed sports bike which I thought had developed a dislike of hills (the 'up' variety) before realising that the problem was more with myself than the bike. So, last summer I decided to try an electric bike. I went to a local dealer who will allow sensible-looking individuals to take a test ride. After a quick run-down of my requirements and expectations, I was recommended to try a full-frame job with a rear hub motor, six-speed derailleur gears, disc brakes, tyres of a modest width, front suspension and various levels of pedal assistance. After a short 'show me how' course, I was off. The first section was uphill at about 1 in 10 for 400 yards, followed by a descent of almost a mile to  Lewden Crossing on the Transpennine Trail, formerly the Worsboro' Bank with a ruling gradient of 1 in 40 for another mile or so to the old Kendall Green crossing. A steady ride back of a further half-mile or so and I was back at the shop. According to the digital dashboard, my maximum speed anywhere on the ride had been  21.7mph, and that with legs going like bees' wings. If I'd been pedalling my own bike at that rate, I would have been going almost twice as fast - with a corresponding increase in distance for the same effort. Admittedly, that was downhill, but even uphill riding required a lot of leg movement, not necessarily strenuous but very tiring nonetheless. My knees ached for a couple of days afterwards, although admittedly I hadn't been in the habit of riding much in the weeks prior to this test. On a personal note, that bike was £1500, and I decided against making the investment at least until I've tried others. Battery range could be an issue, with the dealer claiming "around 20-25 miles" of assistance on the one I tried. Those bikes are very heavy things to ride without power assist, and my main intention for having one would be to put the bike in my campervan in order to get to some of the longer trails like the High Peak or the former Scarborough to Redcar line, both of which would exceed the assisted range of that particular machine. So, my advice would be to try as many different bikes as you can, taking into account your abilities, expectations and the nature of the terrain where you intend to do most of your riding.

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

It depends on what you want it for and how much you want to pay. I've ridden several types.

Focus, designed in Germany, are well built but very heavy. You could probably take on an Armoured Division on one of those. Good range with 500 battery

Trek do a full range for road, commuting, mountain. For my shape I like the Trek geometry. I've ridden their Supercommuter on roads around the Peak District doing the Kinder loop about 35 miles and over 4000 feet of climbing on one charge. In flatter places I took it over 50 miles in one go, and could probably do closer to 100 miles in East Anglia. Riding over to our Daughter's is 8 miles with about 1000 feet of climbs on the quiet scenic route. I can do that in 30 minutes whereas the main road route is 20 minutes minimum in the car.

Another I have tested was from Orbea. I found that very easy and was OK to peddle without the power on all but steep hils. Range with twin batterirs on that one is good.

As I said, it's purpose and budget that will decide for you.

5 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

I've stalled a little into my investigations until I find out whether a bike of any type is medically ok for a pair of osteo arthritic knees, if anyone has any experience it would be much appreciated.

 

My knees are a bit dodgy, but from old injuries. I sometimes have difficulty on tough sections on a conventional bike but have done four hours continuous averaging 10mph with lots of steep hills without problems.

[big jim]

if you just want something cheap and cheerful then halfords own ‘carerra’ e-bikes are decent, i had a vengence which was pretty robust, i got it on the cycle to work scheme and at the time it was £1200, i think they are now about £950

 

it has a range of about 25-35 miles depending how you ride it which, as when i bought it i was new to cycling, was more than enough, the thought of doing 30 miles was incomprehensible to me but i found after a few months that range was actually starting to restrict my rides as id always have to think ahead and plan top up charges at cafes etc (if they would let you plug in of course!)

 

i looked at changing to an E bike with a 60-70 mile range, again a carerra impel 3 on the cycle to work scheme but in the end i decided that as id become a lot fitter and lost a lot of weight by being out on the e bike i went for a conventional bike instead

 

one thing to bear in mind is the weight of ebikes, the vengence was 25kg so quite weighty to be lifting on and off the roof mounted cycle rack on the car, i didnt realise how heavy it was until i swapped for a 9kg carbon bike!

 

personally id say getting an ebike was one of the best things i did to get me out and about and active, had i gone conventional straight away i think id have been put off as the assist makes all the difference when you just need that little extra juice up the hills, every so often i do wish i still had one (saying that i do, my stepdads ‘roodog’ is sat in the shed waiting a repair)

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, fodenway said:

Whilst my knees are not exactly arthritic, they are both approaching seventy years old and have had a pretty hard life. I have a vintage 10-speed sports bike which I thought had developed a dislike of hills (the 'up' variety) before realising that the problem was more with myself than the bike. So, last summer I decided to try an electric bike. I went to a local dealer who will allow sensible-looking individuals to take a test ride. After a quick run-down of my requirements and expectations, I was recommended to try a full-frame job with a rear hub motor, six-speed derailleur gears, disc brakes, tyres of a modest width, front suspension and various levels of pedal assistance. After a short 'show me how' course, I was off. The first section was uphill at about 1 in 10 for 400 yards, followed by a descent of almost a mile to  Lewden Crossing on the Transpennine Trail, formerly the Worsboro' Bank with a ruling gradient of 1 in 40 for another mile or so to the old Kendall Green crossing. A steady ride back of a further half-mile or so and I was back at the shop. According to the digital dashboard, my maximum speed anywhere on the ride had been  21.7mph, and that with legs going like bees' wings. If I'd been pedalling my own bike at that rate, I would have been going almost twice as fast - with a corresponding increase in distance for the same effort. Admittedly, that was downhill, but even uphill riding required a lot of leg movement, not necessarily strenuous but very tiring nonetheless. My knees ached for a couple of days afterwards, although admittedly I hadn't been in the habit of riding much in the weeks prior to this test. On a personal note, that bike was £1500, and I decided against making the investment at least until I've tried others. Battery range could be an issue, with the dealer claiming "around 20-25 miles" of assistance on the one I tried. Those bikes are very heavy things to ride without power assist, and my main intention for having one would be to put the bike in my campervan in order to get to some of the longer trails like the High Peak or the former Scarborough to Redcar line, both of which would exceed the assisted range of that particular machine. So, my advice would be to try as many different bikes as you can, taking into account your abilities, expectations and the nature of the terrain where you intend to do most of your riding.

 

Did the regenerative braking on Worsbrough Bank recharge the battery?

 

Mike.

[Butler Henderson]

6 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

From my cursory investigation of ebikes, the most repeated piece of advice I got was to get one with the motor and control gubbins on the pedals rather than the back wheel, better for the nuances of automatically adjusting power whilst surmounting the hilly bits supposedly, of which we have quite a few hereabouts.

Definitely correct, I have followed an rear wheel driven ebike on my crank driven ebike without any need to overtake until the road went upwards and the ebike in front of me slowed noticeably.

 

5 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Please ensure that you not only insure the ebike for peace of mind but more importantly it is essential to take out third party cover before venturing onto public roads. It might not be you fault if you have a collision that involves injury to another person, but cover for any legal costs and the possibility of being sued is always present and needs to be provided for.

Household insurance can or indeed may cover the bike, Third party cover automatically is part of some cycle organisations membership (British Cycling for instance include £20m third party liability insurance and legal support)

[Guest]

If you already have a bike s Swytch kit might do. It was something I looked at before I got rid of my bikes.

https://www.swytchbike.com

[fodenway]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Did the regenerative braking on Worsbrough Bank recharge the battery?

 

Mike.

Not on this occasion, I was going up the bank - good job I didn't have fifty loaded mineral wagons on behind!

[Michael Hodgson]

4 hours ago, fodenway said:

Whilst my knees are not exactly arthritic, they are both approaching seventy years old and have had a pretty hard life.

Both of them - that's a remarkable coincidence.  One of mine is 71, the other is only about 3!  🤫

As you get older, bits wear out and have to  be replaced.

 

[fodenway]

14 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Both of them - that's a remarkable coincidence.  One of mine is 71, the other is only about 3!  🤫

As you get older, bits wear out and have to  be replaced.

 

Indeed, I always thought Mother Nature got things wrong when she gave us nipples, they really ought to have been fitted on our joints, so we could keep them well greased occasionally to avoid having to replace parts. As an example, my old van has grease nipples on all the steering and suspension joints, none of which have needed replacing even after 283,000 miles. My neighbour's car, on the other hand,  hasn't got nipples and has had to have two balljoints and a trackrod end replaced after only 37,000 miles. 

 

[spikey]

Mid 70's, one replacement knee and the other one pending, been riding e-bikes for everyday all-year-round transport for roughly 12 years now.  My advice would be to do a lot of online research, test ride a few, and buy the best you can afford.  Beware when comparing rated power output of motors that torque figures quoted seem to depend on how each manufacturer measures them. Also it might surprise you how good and how efficient 7- or 8-speed hub gears are ...

[The Johnster]

20 hours ago, 30801 said:

If you already have a bike s Swytch kit might do. It was something I looked at before I got rid of my bikes.

https://www.swytchbike.com

 

This is something that I might be interested in, as riding my road bike has become hardere even after I replaced with flat handlebars.  Unfortunately, they've got one of those really annoying websites that refuses to tell you the price of anything, which makes me a bit suspicious of them.  I like the idea, though.