Nu-Cast Sentinel Steam Railcars x 2

[cctransuk]

6 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Probably not but would get it usable again for else - maybe an etched version? Or ebay :D

 

Talk to Highlevel Models - they should have something suitable.

 

CJI.

[Chas Levin]

22 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Talk to Highlevel Models - they should have something suitable.

 

CJI.

That's a little more problematic, because the wheelbases of their motor bogies are not correct for the Sentinel and altering would be very difficult because of the fold-up nature of the structure - I did consider that option, spoke to Chris at HL and bought one which I examined and measured. I think it almost become a scratchbuilt job... But it would have the advantage that you'd be able to use a good strong motor.

[Chas Levin]

18 hours ago, Flit said:

My old Triang model had already been bashed to Sentinel D89, pretty accurately dimensionally, using lots of odd bits from other kits or models,  but with only the louvre doors and driving cab windows needing starting from scratch...

I do not know what it was originally as the paintstripped superstructure is 25+ bits of plastic pacthed together.

But the paint job was really poor, the styrene strip for the panels and windows way overscale,  and there was lots of glue on the glazing, so it needed stripped back to basics with that one for the rebuild.

I'm more than happy to restore this as a project, and should have only mentioned it in passing as I was more wondering how I might complete one of the 3d printed shells for a second railcar and this was what I was finding the challenge.  Aye, my original post doesn't make this clear !

 

I have got a copy of of the Isinglass dwgs, (eyp.. 4/280) which is very helpful,  for Dia 97/96,  but what type were the bogies marked as 6'6" and 7'  on the dwg ?. Other underframe bits are  identifiably from the Isinglass dwg. 

Did Sentinel use one of the Fox variants, or some other type ?  

This is where my ignorance of the technical details really kicks in.. 

 

These shells have been noted in another thread as being very expensive, but the increasing price and scarcity of Nu cast kits on Ebay makes building from a shell look like a much more reasonable value for money option. 

 

There's a classic pic of a Sentinel crossing Durham viaduct which was one of the inspirations for me to get into LNER modelling, and both they and push-pull autocars have become special interests. Dunno quite why... 

 

The pushpulls are equally complex ..but that is quite another story !

 

 

Good question on the bogies; they look from prototype photos to have been unique to these railcars and I plan, for my build, on using the castings from the Nu-Cast kit which are a pretty good rendition. I'm not sure if they were used on other locos, or if something sufficiently similar to allow use here was used elsewhere - something for further research I think...

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

That's a little more problematic, because the wheelbases of their motor bogies are not correct for the Sentinel and altering would be very difficult because of the fold-up nature of the structure - I did consider that option, spoke to Chris at HL and bought one which I examined and measured. I think it almost become a scratchbuilt job... But it would have the advantage that you'd be able to use a good strong motor.

 

Nothing suitable from Black Beetle?

 

Contrary to common belief, you CAN still get them directly from the manufacturer in Australia.

 

John Isherwood.

[jwealleans]

I refurbished a NuCast Sentinel for Ormesby Hall and used a Black Beetle in that.    I was very disappointed with the performance and wished afterwards I'd used another BullAnt.

[micklner]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Probably not but would get it usable again for else - maybe an etched version? Or ebay :D

Personally I had enough of it at that point hence binned. Only good for pulling something plastic even then only very light.

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I refurbished a NuCast Sentinel for Ormesby Hall and used a Black Beetle in that.    I was very disappointed with the performance and wished afterwards I'd used another BullAnt.

 

That surprises me greatly - I've used more than a few BBs in all sorts of applications - including cast kits - and performance has been universally excellent.

 

Perhaps you got a rogue example?

 

John Isherwood.

[RichardT]

On 26/03/2023 at 14:24, Flit said:

 

Nu cast Sentinel kits - built or unbuilt are very difficult, and increasingly expensive, to source and I'm a NER/LNER branchline person.. so the Sentinel railcar is essential for my modelling period. 

Aren’t they still available, new, from Nu-Cast Partners (advert in Railway Modeller) via Branchlines?  I bought a new kit from them in 2020.  You have to email either  sales@branchlines.com or dave@sefinecast.co.uk

 

Richard

[Chas Levin]

Sorry, late to reply but yes, BBs are still available but as I understand it, only direct from the maker in Australia - he no longer supplies dealers etc.

The demise of Mashima has also affected supplies but you can certainly still get them because I've just bought a pair. 
My intention is to use two if needed, but because I'm using a brass floorpan, an aluminium roof and sides that will be partly - or possibly wholly - brass too, weight shouldn't be the issue it is with the white-metal version as supplied by Nu-Cast.

It is interesting though, that people get such different results with BB bogies. Could it be anything to do with different types of controllers?

Edited April 16, 2023 by Chas Levin

[Flit]

Hi Richard.... just Ebay  watching Sentinels just the last two or three weeks... 

 

Average Nu cast build Sentinel - £156  (not a runner)

Good quality built Sentinel -      £250

Sentinel kit unopened -              £190

 

I'll give the contacts a try....

 

Tony

 

[RichardT]

18 minutes ago, Flit said:

 

I'll give the contacts a try....

 

Tony

Hello Tony

This is their advert in the April 2023 Railway Modeller.  It gives another email address from the one I used in 2020 (!) and also a phone number.  They do not have a website.

Good luck with your build!

Richard

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

Hello Tony

This is their advert in the April 2023 Railway Modeller.  It gives another email address from the one I used in 2020 (!) and also a phone number.  They do not have a website.

Good luck with your build!

Richard

 

Squires now own SE Finecast hence the change in Dave Ellis' email. Branchlines are still owned by the same people however.

[45568]

I am intrigued by the reference to TriAng D89. Googling it gives no sensible answers, so what is it?

Thanks in advance,

Peter C.

[46256]

Thanks for asking the question 45568, I too was intrigued when reading this, and likewise have found no reference on Google. 

[Flit]

My Triang OO railcar, much kitbashed, has been configured by its last owner to LNER Sentinel Diagram 89 - one of their earlier railcar types. The model is Triang, the Sentinel type D89. 

Hope that clears up the shorthand !

[Flit]

Thanks for the headsup on the current Nu Cast situation.

Will report back in due course.

 

It seems from the previous posts that the major issue will then be finding a powerful enough driving bogie for a whitemetal kit, if they are reissued. .

 

Tony 

 

Have now bought a new Nu Cast kit so thanks very much for the advice folks.

Am going to try to fit a double power bogie using two Tenshodos, to compensate for that heavy metal kit being underpowered by fettling the underframe  and also amending with a few extra bits. Nu Cast very helpful in sorting out additional bits needed and think it ought to work.. Here's hoping..

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Flit
new info...

[Lazy]

On 15/04/2023 at 21:47, Chas Levin said:

Sorry to hear that Andy! I don't know how they dismantle - I have one but haven't looked at dismantling as yet - but can I ask, have you tried testing it on its own, with no load? Might the gears just be cogging or temporarily jammed?

 

On the subject of Tenshodo bogies, early variants use a narrow spur gear which is liable to fracture. Repair is impossible and the gear must be replaced. Later variants use a wider helical gear : I have never encountered breakages with this type. On rare occasions the brass worms may be loose on the motor shaft - Loctite or a replacement worm should cure it.

The ends of the Tenshodo axles have machined rebates which fix the back-to-back - note that this is slightly wider than usual to clear the motor casing. If replacement wheelsets are used one must be sure to set the back-to-back to match the Tenshodo value.

Earlier Tenshodo units have a small tab on the keeper plate which locks over a spigot on the main casing (although it frequently breaks)  - bending the tab back to clear the spigot allows the plate to slide back and be unclipped (with care, one can use a small screwdriver to assist in levering the plate off). Later variants use a tiny screw.

[Andy Healey]

On 17/04/2023 at 15:10, Lazy said:

 

On the subject of Tenshodo bogies, early variants use a narrow spur gear which is liable to fracture. Repair is impossible and the gear must be replaced. Later variants use a wider helical gear : I have never encountered breakages with this type. On rare occasions the brass worms may be loose on the motor shaft - Loctite or a replacement worm should cure it.

The ends of the Tenshodo axles have machined rebates which fix the back-to-back - note that this is slightly wider than usual to clear the motor casing. If replacement wheelsets are used one must be sure to set the back-to-back to match the Tenshodo value.

Earlier Tenshodo units have a small tab on the keeper plate which locks over a spigot on the main casing (although it frequently breaks)  - bending the tab back to clear the spigot allows the plate to slide back and be unclipped (with care, one can use a small screwdriver to assist in levering the plate off). Later variants use a tiny screw.

Thanks, I have it apart, needed a major clean up, got it going sporadically but back to square one again. will try another clean up but just think its so worn not worth bothering with.

[34016]

A little while ago I mentioned (in this thread) that I was looking into producing motor bogie kits as there seem to be limited options available. The photos below show an 15:1 8' 6" bogie ideal for DMU's. Its a fold up design with a separate bottom plate and side frame mounting. There are alterations to made, particularly to the side frame mount, as its a bit flimsy, but it seems to work ok. Other wheelbases are 6' 6" and 7' and they'll all be available at 15:1 or 20:1 (hopefully). I'm putting this here as there has been some discussion on the subject. Further posts will be in the motors and drive systems area. opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bucoops]

Watching with interest :)

[micklner]

A Nucast Sentinel Railcar has just sold on ebay for £193.50, poorly built and fitted with a  "untested" Tenshodo Bogie which I would read as knackered.

I wonder if some people do not realise, they are still available to buy for about £100.00.plus £30 for a Tenshodo.

[micklner]

1 hour ago, 34016 said:

A little while ago I mentioned (in this thread) that I was looking into producing motor bogie kits as there seem to be limited options available. The photos below show an 15:1 8' 6" bogie ideal for DMU's. Its a fold up design with a separate bottom plate and side frame mounting. There are alterations to made, particularly to the side frame mount, as its a bit flimsy, but it seems to work ok. Other wheelbases are 6' 6" and 7' and they'll all be available at 15:1 or 20:1 (hopefully). I'm putting this here as there has been some discussion on the subject. Further posts will be in the motors and drive systems area. opinions would be greatly appreciated.

 

How are you going to motorise ?.

[cctransuk]

57 minutes ago, micklner said:

A Nucast Sentinel Railcar has just sold on ebay for £193.50, poorly built and fitted with a  "untested" Tenshodo Bogie which I would read as knackered.

I wonder if some people do not realise, they are still available to buy for about £100.00.plus £30 for a Tenshodo.

 

Skip the Tenshedo and find something capable of powering the model!

 

CJI.

[micklner]

8 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Skip the Tenshedo and find something capable of powering the model!

 

CJI.

Already been said , not upto the job.

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, micklner said:

Already been said , not upto the job.

 

I had read the previous opinion of the Tenshedo, but I thought that others might be misdirected by your mention of the cost of a Tenshedo in the context of a new rail motor kit.

 

CJI.