Results - The 00 Wishlist Poll 2022

[BMacdermott]

2 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

I was surprised to see the 08/09 top the diesel loco poll. I didn't think there was believed to be much wrong with the Hornby or Bachmann versions.

 

Hello D9020 Nimbus

 

I was discussing this very point with someone earlier (off RMweb) and it does seem that modellers want 'bells & whistles' - literally! - on everything these days, so perhaps they were voted highly for that reason?

 

We were 'duty bound' to list the 08 as it just falls within our cut-off date.

 

And we did say in the Q&A that many modellers will find that many models made just prior to 2005 will be fine in most major respects so there was no need to vote for them unless they would realistically buy them if made in the future.

 

The J67 has been High Polling since 2013 and entered the Top 50 in 2019 and has remained there this year, albeit just slightly higher.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

 

[BMacdermott]

15 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

One thing — there are no results listed for either coaches or wagons of Scottish companies. Were there really no votes at all for any of these?

 

Hello again D9020 Nimbus

 

I posted my initial reply before I saw your 'edit'.

 

Scottish items are in Category 05 Locos & Rolling Stock: Scottish Companies (inc some Scottish LNER & BR Classes).

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[tomparryharry]

Interested to see 2 of my wish-listers making the high polling result.  Would I buy them? Well, yes, that's why I voted for them!  I did ask Brian (& team) why certain items had been deleted. The response being that in all honesty, the poll continues to expand, and something has to go. A bit like Newport County, when they drop off the Football Pools......

 

I find this is a bit of a catch- 22. How does an item gets back onto the polls, when it's not on he lists? Is there an amicable, grown-up solution?

 

Finally, full credit to the polling team. They have germinated several models which would have never seen the light of day. Now! Where's that confounded xxxxxxx?

[BMacdermott]

Hello tomparryharry

 

Thanks for writing.

 

We do our best to bring the cut-off date back as much as we can and this is on the agenda for 2024.

 

If an item is within our cut-off date year, then it doesn't go in. Not ideal, but pragmatic.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[rasalmon]

12 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

I find this is a bit of a catch- 22. How does an item gets back onto the polls, when it's not on he lists? Is there an amicable, grown-up solution?

Presumably items which have dropped out of the polls are ones which have been in them for some years, and never made much progress up the list.  I guess that to get them back into the list you then have to make the case for something having changed, to increase their likely popularity.

[BMacdermott]

Hello tomparryharry and rasalmon

 

Extracts from the Q&A below.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

Items that have ‘languished’ in Low Polling for years with – seemingly – no prospect of production have been deleted as have the c.70 items that have been made or announced since the 2019 Results. About 90 new entries have gone in. The remaining core content has been thoroughly reviewed – for example, the SR Tavern Cars are now one listing instead of three.

 

What if voters have any suggestions for 2024; or need impartial help or advice?

With the best will in the world, the list contents won’t satisfy everyone. To make suggestions for 2024, email thepollteam@gmail.com, but note that we will only consider those with a c.100-word justification based on the criteria below and a minimum of one link. The item should as far as possible have:

1.     A realistic chance of being commercially viable (not simply ‘your favourite’!)

2.     An existing prototype or drawings available

3.     A wide geographic spread of operation and/or long life

4.     A broad modelling appeal or public popularity

5.     A context with other items listed or on the market.

An acknowledgment will normally be sent within 24 hours, but a full answer to any requests for help and advice might take a few days. We will also answer queries on RMweb but note we won’t take suggestions!

 

[60027Merlin]

Many thanks to Brian and the team for your hard work. Most appreciated,

 

it was most pleasing to see for the first time a separate section for Scottish items, Well done!

 

Regarding the Scottish section it was excellent to see the Scott and Glen classes polling a high number and just as important linking both classes together for the first time as they offer a prospective manufacturer great scope to produce both with minimal additional cost thus greater sales and profit. They are long overdue for the r-t-r market,

 

Eric

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by 60027Merlin

[wombatofludham]

Fascinating reading, many thanks for taking the time out of your holidays to compile the results.

I was happy to see some placings, baffled by others!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Crumbs, you got those results out quicker than, say, the US elections... Very well done all!

From your listings, I make the top three to be:

Gold     SR U 2-6-0

Silver    6-wheel milk tank

Bronze  Class 120 DMU (I did vote for it in the end as usual...)

 

[Robin Brasher]

Very interesting results.  It looks like my S&DR goods train is going to have to manage without a brake van unless I build a kit.

 

I am modelling the Swanage Railway. The U and Q classes would fit a significant gap in my motive power for the passenger service to Basingstoke and the goods service respectively. I have made some kits with varying degrees of success.

 

I have got an Ace Trains 0 gauge coarse scale Q class with a number that ran on the Swanage Railway and this has been a huge success. It is one of those model engines that you can put 48 wagons behind and leave running all day. You don't need to be a rivet counter when you own something that has the weight and feel of a real engine because it is a real engine. If it has sold out in 0 gauge it should be a success in 00 gauge especially if it has a good motor and a metal body.

[BMacdermott]

11 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

Very interesting results.  It looks like my S&DR goods train is going to have to manage without a brake van unless I build a kit.

 

Hello Robin

 

Don't forget that we could list 50,000 items at least - so, even Low Polling is still very high in the round of things.

 

It is true that the majority of items announced tend to come from the upper echelons but there are still many that come from the lower rungs.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[Robin Brasher]

Very interesting results.  It looks like my S&DR goods train is going to have to manage without a brake van unless I build a kit.

 

I am modelling the Swanage Railway. The U and Q classes would fit a significant gap in my motive power for the passenger service to Basingstoke and the goods service respectively. I have made some kits with varying degrees of success.

 

I have got an Ace Trains 0 gauge coarse scale Q class with a number that ran on the Swanage Railway and this has been a huge success. It is one of those model engines that you can put 48 wagons behind and leave running all day. You don't need to be a rivet counter when you own something that has the weight and feel of a real engine because it is a real engine. If it has sold out in 0 gauge it should be a success in 00 gauge especially if it has a good motor and a metal body.

[Robin Brasher]

I have noticed that there are a lot of brake vans in Hornby's winter sale which may account for why manufacturers are reluctant to make brake vans.  You only need one brake van per train whereas you can have as many other wagons as you like so perhaps manufacturers do not make a profit out of brake vans.  I had to wait about forty years before anyone made a Southern region brake van.

 

The S&DJR may have used LMS brake vans in the 1920s. I don't know much about the S&DJR but I wonder if I could repaint an LMS brake van in S&DJR livery as a stop gap measure.

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

You only need one brake van per train whereas you can have as many other wagons as you like so perhaps manufacturers do not make a profit out of brake vans.

 

Nail hit on head. 

 

Brake vans typically take more tooling therefore costing more and are likely to sell in a lesser volume meaning they aren't as appealing to a manufacturer.

[Ian J.]

Top and bottom for me. U class once again coming very high (top this time) and I bet it still won't see the light of day... I bet my 'bottom' choice - the 64 foot Bulleid multi-door sets - come out before the U...

 

I did also vote for the Q as well, maybe we might actually get to see that.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Ian J.

[Covkid]

Thanks Brian and team for making the effort to produce the poll. 

The most amazing thing for me is people voting for a class 08 / 09 rather than tactically voting for something "virgin". I will confess that I don't have an 08 / 09 yet and as my modelling is 1960 - 1975 I have been hanging on for the Model Rail class 11 ffor my 350hp shunting engine needs. 

 

Many of my votes are right up there - LMS motor train, class 120, BR A44 "cyclops" autotrailer etc

 

Whether the poll will have any impact we don't know

[Robin Brasher]

I think goods and mixed traffic engines are likely to appeal to smaller manufacturers than Hornby.

 

One item included in the polls is the SR N class. There was a manufacturing fault in the Bachmann 00 version which caused it to derail at the slightest provocation as you can see in Sam's Trains video so my examples are expensive paperweights. In contrast their Graham Farish version runs beautifully.  There is a shortage of mixed traffic engines for the Southern Region for cross country trains. Both the N and U classes would fill this gap,

Edited January 3, 2023 by Robin Brasher
Item already in poll !

[griffgriff]

Very interesting and thanks for your efforts.
 

There are some very reasonable suggestions in there and some that don’t make sense (except they do because people voted from them ;) )

 

I shall digest the who list at my leisure but one thing that manufacturers might take note of…. The limited appeal of large express passenger locomotives.

 

Griff

[MJI]

120 DMU has been wanted for years.

 

Good to see other DMUs polling high.

 

Also interesting that all the Swindon DMUs have the same construction and sizes.

[Covkid]

41 minutes ago, MJI said:

120 DMU has been wanted for years.

 

Good to see other DMUs polling high.

 

Also interesting that all the Swindon DMUs have the same construction and sizes.

 

The Swindon Cross Countrys were all the same long frame cars true. Each car though was quite different and the headcode panel variants would need slides in the tooling to cope with the third batch produced.  And that is the point.  My preference would be green with small yellow panels and no headcode, and in blue and grey again with no headcode, but maybe with the Central Wales headlight mod.    

 

It would be interesting to see whether a manufacturer might consider doing the whole suite of variants including the few Inverness DMBF cars 51781-51787 which had the extended brakevan and the token exchange apparatus. There is a rather enticing photo in "First Generation DMUs in colour" by Stuart Mackay showing a partcels service at Leicester formed of 51782 and a class 116 DMBS 53072 taken in June 1986  

[Mallard60022]

Thanks all. The U at last. CIBA to get on with my two Kits (one is a U1)? Probably not.

However a load of unmade Bulleid D2406 Loose Brake Kits/Conversions, appear safe to await another ten years of not being built yet.

Milko fest is also good news

A really interesting set of results again and I am sure the eyes of many 'Firms' have been on this already.

Such a task and yes it is something to browse on a rather uncomfortable and disturbing start to a new year for so many. Despite that, I do hope many of you will see the possibility of obtaining that elusive item or those eagerly awaited items. 

All the best Brian and Team; a mighty effort yet again.

Phil  

Edited January 3, 2023 by Mallard60022

[phil gollin]

.

 

Yes a U (or even an ex-LBSCR K 2-6-0  -  both high polling)  would be useful for Southern mixed traffic trains.

Contrary to all the "noise" from other parties the Southern Region still has a lot of popular locos that need to be produced  -  that is one of the great advantages of these polls.

 

( However, I will be amazed if the three "Hornby's" (original class 70's - two types) will be produced, however many votes they get. )

 

.

[BMacdermott]

Just now, phil gollin said:

( However, I will be amazed if the three "Hornby's" (original class 70's - two types) will be produced, however many votes they get. )

 

Thanks Phil

 

We always try to make the point that even if an item were to amass, say, 10000 votes, or a maker was 'overwhelmed by clamour' for it via emails or at exhibitions, that item will probably never be made unless they can see a return on investment.

 

This 00 Wishlist Poll is to state to makers what we as a modelling community would realistically buy if ever made.

 

It is not to 'demand' something be made.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

[The Black Hat]

Some interesting results from the poll this year. My thanks to Brian and the team for organising it, as well as Andy Y for hosting it here. 

The number of votes looks to have gone down in pervious years. My comparison of this to latter years show many of the classes looking to fall in popularity as a result, when actually there were just less votes counted. I have kept an eye on the various placings of positioning overall, using the same system I have used in previous years - which was to take the top 10 of placings for locomotives. This year that could have changed as there was a number of high entry votes for coaching stock. The one that stood out (making me happy) was the incredible rise in the request for NER stock. If this was done to go from NER to British Railways or NCB years I think they would sell like hot cakes. But then - I would. 

Once you adjust or take note of the various companies and how they line up in basic terms of popularity overall the picture looks very similar to other votes done in previous years. GE and NER still dominate massively in the Eastern region area even with some models having been made and thus the pattern falls to other choices to see if they can hold or make up ground. Midland region continues to be low polling. It looks as though some of the choices left have done so, but the poll itself does skew the results. As I go off a top 10 per area, some areas merely have more listings thus can gain votes. LSWR from what I can tell is the only one to have 10 listings available, so I would say that its popularity is inflated as a result as other less popular engines just push up the numbers. For the first time since the polls launch no Eastern pre-group company has 10 listings for locomotives. NER rockets up if you add the choice of stock to the listings, the same is said for GE if you add the Quad Art set but these fall under LNER. Also the B16 2 and 3 in previous years were listed as NER origin so I have added them to NER to keep comparisons right and the B17 streamlined version somehow gets listed as GE despite it being an LNE design to that was kept to LNER as it would distort GE. 

If your looking for a Top 10 of pregrouping the results come out as:

1.  LSWR
2.  GE
3.  NER
4.  GN
5.  LBSCR
6.  NBR
7.  SECR
8.  CR
9.  LNWR
10. MR

Also note, I have not done Western region areas as its hard for me to tell when pregrouping and grouping designs were done. Should LSWR not have as many listings I believe it would fall third behind GE, NER. The rise of GN is interesting as that is steady but perhaps a result of GE and NER having engines made and GN merely able to list its most popular engines still against those that remain, which I believe is the case. 

As always, designs that can get from late pregrouping into BR and industrial use will see the highest chance of models being done. What the poll does show though is that there must be a number of designs that were previously listed and are now done, a credit to the polls success. There are just not as many entries available for some areas as models have been made. The likelihood of this continuing I think will make this a trend that continues and so in the future I expect demand for some areas to be satisfied and those areas fall in terms of popularity meaning that others replace them. However, I think that is a medium to longer term trend. This also must be across the various regions, although some that lag behind will obviously be harder for companies to justify as made for sale so sadly these will be discounted. 

The poll still gets interesting results in this area, I as I have tracked the progress of this for ages now, however, there are some results that I do find perplexing and I will try to give my views on this later, as I have written this in my lunch break!

Edited January 3, 2023 by The Black Hat

[BMacdermott]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

However a load of unmade Bulleid D2406 Loose Brake Kits/Conversions, appear safe to await another ten years of not being built yet.

 

Hello Phil

 

Many thanks.

 

No need to be despondent...many items come from Middle Polling and your Poll Team - as you might recall - has done its utmost to convince Bachmann that the Diag.2406 BCK is a winner.

 

Here's hoping!

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)