TT:120 Easterner

[luke_stevens]

1 hour ago, Les1952 said:

I'm still confused as mine don't rub at all, even on radius 2.  The design of the coach doesn't seem to allow for any mis-assembly that would account for some rubbing and others not.  However, between my Pullmans arriving and my Mark 1s coming on the scene all of my curves were pinned down onto cork underlay and are thus rigid.

 

Les

 

 

Very curious. My track is currently just laid out on the kitchen Table Top. The coaches with no weight have a higher pitched screech than the one with lead in its guts. I wonder whether in your case the track being fixed down means the wheels rub but don't make any noise? Is there any perceptible slow down as the coaches go into and come out of the curves?

 

Luke

[Les1952]

11 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

Very curious. My track is currently just laid out on the kitchen Table Top. The coaches with no weight have a higher pitched screech than the one with lead in its guts. I wonder whether in your case the track being fixed down means the wheels rub but don't make any noise? Is there any perceptible slow down as the coaches go into and come out of the curves?

 

Luke

 

No more than my rakes of 4-wheeled German wagons.  There is always extra friction between the flange and the rail on a curve.  If I put one of my big Continental bruisers on the job there is no slowing at all.

 

Les

 

[Flying Pig]

31 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

Very curious. My track is currently just laid out on the kitchen Table Top. The coaches with no weight have a higher pitched screech than the one with lead in its guts. I wonder whether in your case the track being fixed down means the wheels rub but don't make any noise? Is there any perceptible slow down as the coaches go into and come out of the curves?

 

Luke

 

Sectional track isn't always dead flat, particularly on the curves.  If the coaches are riding a wee bit low it won't take much twisting of the bogies to lift some of the wheels up into contact with the underframe.  It may be that a bit of extra weight is flattening the track below the coach against the table and mitigating this effect.  That would also be why wheel rubbing doesn't happen when the track is fixed securely to a board as in @Les1952's case.

[Jeff Smith]

6 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

So, experimenting with the coaches, the wheels rub on the 3rd radius track but not on 6th radius as supplied to go with the point.  A mistake in the catalogue shows this to be a 4th radius (TT8006) but actually is TT8007.

 

2 hours ago, Les1952 said:

I'm still confused as mine don't rub at all, even on radius 2.  The design of the coach doesn't seem to allow for any mis-assembly that would account for some rubbing and others not.  However, between my Pullmans arriving and my Mark 1s coming on the scene all of my curves were pinned down onto cork underlay and are thus rigid.

 

Les

 

My experiment above was with one piece of each type of curved track on a hard shelf at eye level with the coach gently pushed back and forth within the length of the track piece.......

[luke_stevens]

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Sectional track isn't always dead flat, particularly on the curves.  If the coaches are riding a wee bit low it won't take much twisting of the bogies to lift some of the wheels up into contact with the underframe.  It may be that a bit of extra weight is flattening the track below the coach against the table and mitigating this effect.  That would also be why wheel rubbing doesn't happen when the track is fixed securely to a board as in @Les1952's case.

 

The Hornby curved track isn't even vaguely flat! From what I could hear it was happening from wheels both inside and outside the curve so I don't think it is that.

 

I've spent some time this evening experimenting with washers between the bogie frame and the chassis. 0.5 mm (20 thou) makes the bogie resistant to turn, 0.25mm (10 thou) results in the bogie being stiffer and still getting the screech, if notable quieter. My current plan is to get some 0.4mm (15 thou) sheet and cut some washers, which should just be high enough. I'll also slightly loosen the bogie clips to give a little vertical flexibility. And add weight :)

 

Luke

Edited February 10, 2023 by luke_stevens

[Flying Pig]

5 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

The Hornby curved track isn't even vaguely flat! From what I could hear it was happening from wheels both inside and outside the curve so I don't think it is that.

 

Try holding a coach in your hands with the bogies rotated as if on a curve.  Now tilt one bogie inward and one outwards as if the track was twisting and the outside wheel will contact the underframe at one end, but the inside wheel at the other. 

[luke_stevens]

33 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Try holding a coach in your hands with the bogies rotated as if on a curve.  Now tilt one bogie inward and one outwards as if the track was twisting and the outside wheel will contact the underframe at one end, but the inside wheel at the other. 

 

Ok, tried that and it does give the contact.

 

I then tried something else. As soon as the Hornby track was issues I'd got a full circle of R2 (310mm) track. I checked it this evening and it is MUCH flatter than the R3 track. I tried the A4 and the coaches (1 with 0.5 washers, 1 with 0.25 washers and 1 with no washers) The two modified coaches are silent (though the A4 doesn't like the resistance for the bogie turning) but the unmodified coach  still screeches, both under power and rolling free.

 

You are right that flat track certainly helps, but there is more to sort.

 

Luke

[Jeff Smith]

1 hour ago, luke_stevens said:

The Hornby curved track isn't even vaguely flat! From what I could hear it was happening from wheels both inside and outside the curve so I don't think it is that.

I would contest this, mine seemed flat on a table surface.

 

If the coach is level across the track, ie not leaning to one side or the other, of course opposite wheels on each bogie will contact the solebar on each side........

[andrewshimmin]

Someone on here had the issue and found a simple fix:

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/forum/easterner-coaches-wheels-scraping-on-curves-342296?ccm_paging_p=4#end-of-replies

[spamcan61]

10 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

Someone on here had the issue and found a simple fix:

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/forum/easterner-coaches-wheels-scraping-on-curves-342296?ccm_paging_p=4#end-of-replies

OOOh that looks interesting, will try that later; not had much chance to play today, but did follow Les's comment about the track and found that on my train set oval the inner rail was about 1mm higher than the outer, so I screwed down one semi-circle, and this did reduce the scraping a bit. looks like I need to remove some lugs now then.

[spamcan61]

So, to be clear, it's the very end of the truss rods, where they meet the underside of the coach floor that are being scraped against the backside of the wheel flange:-

 

 

hmmm looks like bogies off job.

 

Update, had a crack at one coach, stripped down coach, bogies off and a bit of careful surgery, coach now very free running and no scraping noises. job done!

Edited February 11, 2023 by spamcan61

[spamcan61]

In other news I ran in my A4 with 3 on for the recommended 30 mins in each direction this arvo - using my flat DC controller set to 7V, not the supplied buzzbox. No screws fell out, valve gear all present and correct, runs really smoothly, well impressed. Drew about 80mA at 7 V when running forwards, just over 60 mA in reverse, which is mildly intriguing.

[frobisher]

2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

In other news I ran in my A4 with 3 on for the recommended 30 mins in each direction this arvo - using my flat DC controller set to 7V, not the supplied buzzbox. No screws fell out, valve gear all present and correct, runs really smoothly, well impressed. Drew about 80mA at 7 V when running forwards, just over 60 mA in reverse, which is mildly intriguing.

 

That would match evidence from the Sam's Trains review.  It crawled better in reverse than forward, which may be something to do with screw gear fitted to the motor would be my guess so a bit more mechanical resistance in that direction perhaps?  I'm surprised that there isn't a proper flywheel on the motor given Farish managed that on the V2, which would probably help in this regard.

[luke_stevens]

3 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

 

hmmm looks like bogies off job.

 

 

I did mine with a sharp scalpel blade, without the need to  remove the bogies (which is a pain to do). Pleased with the outcome :)

 

L

[spamcan61]

21 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

 

I did mine with a sharp scalpel blade, without the need to  remove the bogies (which is a pain to do). Pleased with the outcome :)

 

L

I couldn't co-ordinate well enough for that, so on coach #2 I took the bogies out from inside the coach, which is indeed a pain. Coach #3 I gently slipped a thin, wide screwdriver blade between the top of  bogie and the coach underfloor, a slight twist of the screwdriver and the bogie pops out. I'll know for next time lol.

Edited February 12, 2023 by spamcan61

[Jeff Smith]

On 11/02/2023 at 14:18, spamcan61 said:

So, to be clear, it's the very end of the truss rods, where they meet the underside of the coach floor that are being scraped against the backside of the wheel flange:-

 

 

hmmm looks like bogies off job.

 

Update, had a crack at one coach, stripped down coach, bogies off and a bit of careful surgery, coach now very free running and no scraping noises. job done!

The piece in question being removed is actually moulded on the underside of the floor.  The truss rod moulding is a separate piece stuck to the underside of the floor and meant to align with these pieces.  I see no purpose the them other perhaps to assist in assembly.  However even with these pieces removed the wheels still come very close to the solebars and will rub on them with smaller radii track.

[Porfuera]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

The piece in question being removed is actually moulded on the underside of the floor.  The truss rod moulding is a separate piece stuck to the underside of the floor and meant to align with these pieces.  I see no purpose the them other perhaps to assist in assembly.  However even with these pieces removed the wheels still come very close to the solebars and will rub on them with smaller radii track.

 

If it is only a temporary locating lug then I guess it would be interesting to know if anyone has any coaches where these pieces have already been removed by the factory during assembly and whether or not these coaches still make the rubbing noise, especially on smaller curves as you say.

[Jeff Smith]

To be quite honest this particular feature/fault will not bother me as if ever a layout gets built it will not involve train set curves.

[Les1952]

On 13/02/2023 at 22:59, Porfuera said:

 

If it is only a temporary locating lug then I guess it would be interesting to know if anyone has any coaches where these pieces have already been removed by the factory during assembly and whether or not these coaches still make the rubbing noise, especially on smaller curves as you say.

 

Probably mine as I can't find the bit that is involved, and mine have run quietly ever since first placed on the track- not silent as there is always wheel noise, but they are no noisier than my N-gauge Farish Mark 1s, and no noisier than my 2,3 and now 4-axle Tillig coaches or the Pullmans on the same track.

 

Les

 

[Stefen1988]

I have seen many reviews and unboxing videos.

 

It is common for all A4 from the Easterner Starter Sets that the remnants of the valances over the cylinders are bended like shown on the Set's front cover?

[Porfuera]

21 hours ago, Stefen1988 said:

I have seen many reviews and unboxing videos.

 

It is common for all A4 from the Easterner Starter Sets that the remnants of the valances over the cylinders are bended like shown on the Set's front cover?

 

I don't know enough about these locos to be able to answer your question but the online shop web page for the analogue Easterner set appears to have been upgraded with extra photos and includes a closeup of the front end of the model (I'm pretty sure it is the TT model and not the 00 model) as well as the individual coaches and the contents of the box:

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/easterner-train-set-tt1002m

 

EDIT: it looks like all the sets in the online shop have had similar treatment, although the contents photos of the digital sets appears to be the same as the analogue sets in that they contain the controller, which I thought was not going to be the case because the idea is to use a smartphone or tablet plus the app as the controller for the digital sets. I guess they're just using the same photo rather than taking separate ones of the digital sets (maybe they don't have one here yet).

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Porfuera

[Ravenser]

23 hours ago, Stefen1988 said:

I have seen many reviews and unboxing videos.

 

It is common for all A4 from the Easterner Starter Sets that the remnants of the valances over the cylinders are bended like shown on the Set's front cover?

 

 

Here are enough photos of the real thing without the valances for you to judge the model:

 

A4 photos

[Stefen1988]

There seems to be some misunderstandings. Can those who have the set confirm that their Locos also have strange outwards bended valances, like you can see on the box cover and in some review or unboxing videos which the models shouldn't have.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Stefen1988

[Ravenser]

8 minutes ago, Stefen1988 said:

There seems to be some misunderstandings. Can those who have the set confirm that their Locos also have strange outwards bended valances, like you can see on the box cover and in some review or unboxing videos which the models shoudn't have.

 

 

It has always been understood that building British big steam to an exact scale gauge would cause issues , with the clearances restricting models to scale curves. Therefore something somewhere would have to give...  (And hence OO...)

 

I think you may have found the compromise Hornby made to get these round trainset curves. Over-width cylinders are one dodge for providing the necessary clearances to do the valve gear in a dead-scale gauge and still get round R3 curves. If you want a scale gauge for 1:120 scale British outline , and if you want 12mm gauge done to 1:120 scale  not 3mm/1foot , think you will have to swallow this

 

I was wondering exactly what they had done to achieve the theoretically impossible

 

[Porfuera]

1 hour ago, Stefen1988 said:

There seems to be some misunderstandings. Can those who have the set confirm that their Locos also have strange outwards bended valances, like you can see on the box cover and in some review or unboxing videos which the models shouldn't have.

 

 

Here is the picture from the online shop as I mentioned earlier - you can try to zoom in and check it for yourself:

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Porfuera