Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[Bob83a]

According to the latest profile schedule on the Hornby site, the 37, 47, 67 and Turbomotive are all due in Q3, so they should all be appearing this month.

[Ighten]

On 04/09/2023 at 16:18, Bob83a said:

According to the latest profile schedule on the Hornby site, the 37, 47, 67 and Turbomotive are all due in Q3, so they should all be appearing this month.

 as the TSX fitted 47 is due in the next 2 months it will be hoped so

[Michanglais]

Hi all,

 

I wonder if anyone can help me.

 

I've downloaded the HM7000 App on my phone and it seems to work in that I can get it to detect the decoder, etc. However, when I go to detected devices and try to operate the loco (TT:120 A4), I get a message on the phone saying the phone cannot control the device.

 

I've got a Xaiomi Redmi 10, which isn't even listed in the 'incompatible phones' list. 

 

On top of which, if I run the loco under DCC - it operates perfectly, EXCEPT no sound (I was under the impression that there was a 'generic' sound file loaded into the decoder). Do I have to adjust a CV to get it to work? (Forgot to mention, I use an NCE PowerCab).

 

I'm also wondering whether I should remove the pre-fitted speaker and replace it with the hard-wired one supplied with the decoder package? (I'm currently relying on the pre-fitted contact strips in the tender). 

 

Any advice gratefully appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Michanglais

[Bob83a]

1 hour ago, Michanglais said:

 

 

I've got a Xaiomi Redmi 10, which isn't even listed in the 'incompatible phones' list. 

 

 

Just because a phone is not on the incompatible list does not mean it is compatible, it just means that Hornby are not aware of issues. Possibly nobody has reported issues with that device and Hornby has not tested it themselves. Given the number of phones available or previously made, it is not possible for Hornby to test them all, so they will need users to report issues. Even if it is reported to Hornby they possibly will not be available to obtain an example of the phone anyway, either availability or cost.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Bob83a
Added missing word

[RedgateModels]

This might be the problem - from the specifications for the phone - "MIUI 12.5 based on Android 11" 

 

There's no way of telling from this how the Chinese have implemented their "copy" of Android. Pot luck I'm afraid on if it works or not.

[Michanglais]

Well. 

 

I have somehow (don't know what I did differently) got my decoder to function with the App now.

 

They are communicating but, it would seem, not very well. I can get the loco to accelerate and decelerate but it's now running like a bag of nails (it was incredibly smooth on DCC - original flava - yesterday before it was connected to the App). 

 

Also still no sound on either DCC or Bluetooth (notably, it is also running as poorly on plain DCC as it is on Bluetooth now). 

 

Would anyone have any idea of some adjustments I could make to improve running and get sound now that the decoder and App are talking or is this one for Hornby Customer Services?

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

 

[meatloaf]

21 hours ago, Michanglais said:

Well. 

 

I have somehow (don't know what I did differently) got my decoder to function with the App now.

 

They are communicating but, it would seem, not very well. I can get the loco to accelerate and decelerate but it's now running like a bag of nails (it was incredibly smooth on DCC - original flava - yesterday before it was connected to the App). 

 

Also still no sound on either DCC or Bluetooth (notably, it is also running as poorly on plain DCC as it is on Bluetooth now). 

 

Would anyone have any idea of some adjustments I could make to improve running and get sound now that the decoder and App are talking or is this one for Hornby Customer Services?

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

 

If youre getting no sound at all check the speaker is plugged in the right way round. Should have the generic steam sound installed from new. 

[RAF96]

Check the built in speaker impedance in case it has gone open circuit. Check the contacts are making good to the speaker.

Check by plugging in the external speaker to see if sound is then made available, if so the the inbuilt speaker or installation is at fault.

It is presumed you have selected sound on, both when trying the app or using F1 on the NCE controller.

Another check on the app is loco settings, advanced cv editor tab, does it need a refresh. Whilst there check the set value in CV12 and alter as necessary for the control method in hand.

Some many vague questions with not enough info to really give directed help.

[melmerby]

Any news of when the non-sound decoders are coming?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

Any news of when the non-sound decoders are coming?

 

All showing as due next year (spring or summer) now

Edited September 9, 2023 by Guest
Clarification

[Michanglais]

Yes! Success at last.

 

It would seem my DC controller, even at full power, just wasn't providing enough juice. Upon connecting my DCC controller things started to improve. However, I have found the track has to be meticulously clean as well. I run HOm on the same track and it has no problems but I guess the TT loco being so much lighter and not having such a long wheelbase means that no dirt will be tolerated. 

 

I think I may invest in a wheel cleaner, too. Just to ensure that everything is as clean as can be.

 

Now to find out how to reduce the sound levels of individual features like whistles, without reducing the running sound. All part of the fun, I guess!

 

[RAF96]

35 minutes ago, Michanglais said:

Yes! Success at last.

 

It would seem my DC controller, even at full power, just wasn't providing enough juice. Upon connecting my DCC controller things started to improve. However, I have found the track has to be meticulously clean as well. I run HOm on the same track and it has no problems but I guess the TT loco being so much lighter and not having such a long wheelbase means that no dirt will be tolerated. 

 

I think I may invest in a wheel cleaner, too. Just to ensure that everything is as clean as can be.

 

Now to find out how to reduce the sound levels of individual features like whistles, without reducing the running sound. All part of the fun, I guess!

 

You obviously didn’t get the memo about not using the output from an analogue controller to power your track when using HM7K decoders. This has long since been the policy. You are fortunate you haven’t damaged your decoder.

You can only use either the DCC track output from a DCC controller or the DC output direct from a suitable PSU, with adequate short circuit and overload protection.

You may wish to have a read of the documentation here including the 130 page decoder reference manual which will answer your question about volume levels.

https://uk.Hornby.com/hm7000/hm-dcc-guides

Edited September 9, 2023 by RAF96
Add link to documentation

[spamcan61]

15 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

You obviously didn’t get the memo about not using the output from an analogue controller to power your track when using HM7K decoders. This has long since been the policy. You are fortunate you haven’t damaged your decoder.

 

About time they removed the DC controller compatability statement from the packaging then! I don't recall it being mentioned in the instructions included with the decoders either.

Edited September 9, 2023 by spamcan61

[Bob83a]

3 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

About time they removed the DC controller compatability statement from the packaging then! I don't recall it being mentioned in the instructions included with the decoders either.

I would of thought that the packaging for the current batch of the decoders was produced long ago, and most of the decoders that have not been sold yet were on the shelves of the retailers/distributors. So changing the packaging now would be a major recall exorcise. Possibly the best that Hornby could do would be to send out stickers to be applied to the boxes, but retailers would probably want to charge Hornby to apply those.

Therefore it is unlikely that the packaging will not change until the next batch of decoders are produced, and it is to be hoped that when that occurs then the decoders will be updated with the smaller chipset.

the schedule for the non-sound decoders probably means that the packaging has not been produced yet and therefore can be changed before released. Again it might be possible that a smaller chipset will be used in those decoders.

[Johan DC]

For those on the right side driving side (for Cars, not always for trains) of the channel, Modelbahnunion sells TXS decoders (18 and 21) for €50, about £44 in Albion coins. It's a temporary offer!

 

https://www.modellbahnunion.com/Spur-H0/Digital-Sounddecoder-HM7000-N18TXS-18-polig.htm?a=article&ProdNr=Hornby-R7345&p=802

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Johan DC

[RAF96]

On 09/09/2023 at 14:50, Bob83a said:

I would of thought that the packaging for the current batch of the decoders was produced long ago, and most of the decoders that have not been sold yet were on the shelves of the retailers/distributors. So changing the packaging now would be a major recall exorcise. Possibly the best that Hornby could do would be to send out stickers to be applied to the boxes, but retailers would probably want to charge Hornby to apply those.

Therefore it is unlikely that the packaging will not change until the next batch of decoders are produced, and it is to be hoped that when that occurs then the decoders will be updated with the smaller chipset.

the schedule for the non-sound decoders probably means that the packaging has not been produced yet and therefore can be changed before released. Again it might be possible that a smaller chipset will be used in those decoders.

This issue has been flogged to death.
The decoders are capable of DC running. Ref pages 14/15 of the famous decoder manual for the official word about this.
The packing refers to running a loco under DC control, not powering of the layout by DC to support other operations. The difference being to power the track the controller is on full whack and likely spikey, but for running in purposes using a dc controller the decoder sees controlled limited voltage under DC running enabled conditions (CV 12 and CV29 set).

 

Edit - thus there is knowt wrong with the packaging and no reason to change it by way of reprint, sticky label or other method of communication

Edited September 13, 2023 by RAF96
Responding to a PM, which I don’t answer back to directly.

[Edge]

2 hours ago, RAF96 said:

This issue has been flogged to death.
The decoders are capable of DC running. Ref pages 14/15 of the famous decoder manual for the official word about this.
The packing refers to running a loco under DC control, not powering of the layout by DC to support other operations. The difference being to power the track the controller is on full whack and likely spikey, but for running in purposes using a dc controller the decoder sees controlled limited voltage under DC running enabled conditions (CV 12 and CV29 set).

Was about to say basically this, but you got in first.

 

I have used several of these chips for what must be a few dozen hours at this point and there has been not so much as a blip from any of them. They work fine on DC power provided that the voltage is constant (I.e. you don’t try to drive the loco using the DC controller)

[Creampot Junction]

On 10/09/2023 at 16:49, Johan DC said:

For those on the right side driving side (for Cars, not always for trains) of the channel, Modelbahnunion sells TXS decoders (18 and 21) for €50, about £44 in Albion coins. It's a temporary offer!

 

https://www.modellbahnunion.com/Spur-H0/Digital-Sounddecoder-HM7000-N18TXS-18-polig.htm?a=article&ProdNr=Hornby-R7345&p=802

 

 

 

Hi I am very interested in taking up on this offer and was wondering if you have purchased any of them for them as I haven't ordered from them before and was wondering what the shop is like with ordering stuff from them.

 

Many Thanks

Chris

 

[Michanglais]

8 hours ago, Creampot Junction said:

 

Hi I am very interested in taking up on this offer and was wondering if you have purchased any of them for them as I haven't ordered from them before and was wondering what the shop is like with ordering stuff from them.

 

Many Thanks

Chris

 

 

I've ordered from them a number of times - very efficient and rapid delivery. I'm definitely going to be ordering a few. Now that the Swallow livery HST isn't going to be available DCC/sound fitted in TT, I'll need at least a couple. 

 

I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them. Unfortunately, they don't offer you extra 'credit' for your next purchase like MSL when you place a decent quantity order and their postage is a little more expensive, if I recall, but you'll still be making a massive saving.

 

I say, "go for it"!

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

[Johan DC]

10 hours ago, Creampot Junction said:

 

Hi I am very interested in taking up on this offer and was wondering if you have purchased any of them for them as I haven't ordered from them before and was wondering what the shop is like with ordering stuff from them.

 

Many Thanks

Chris

 

Everything Michanglais said.

Very pleased customer of MBU, highly recommended. Fast and well packed delivery, two days from Germany to Belgium, and good support. 

Keep an eye on the side for other good deals, like their steam week. 

Next on the list for me will be a couple of the recent Gresley teaks, (£41!).

 

 

[SteveM666]

I was tempted for a while. After Hornby club discount (points online or 10% at the HVC) and comparing the postage rates (free from Hornby) the price gap narrows considerably. There is also a guest ion of tax - not sure of the exact regulations, but now we have left the EU is VAT payable on larger amounts?

[Creampot Junction]

15 hours ago, Michanglais said:

 

I've ordered from them a number of times - very efficient and rapid delivery. I'm definitely going to be ordering a few. Now that the Swallow livery HST isn't going to be available DCC/sound fitted in TT, I'll need at least a couple. 

 

I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them. Unfortunately, they don't offer you extra 'credit' for your next purchase like MSL when you place a decent quantity order and their postage is a little more expensive, if I recall, but you'll still be making a massive saving.

 

I say, "go for it"!

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

 

11 hours ago, Johan DC said:

Everything Michanglais said.

Very pleased customer of MBU, highly recommended. Fast and well packed delivery, two days from Germany to Belgium, and good support. 

Keep an eye on the side for other good deals, like their steam week. 

Next on the list for me will be a couple of the recent Gresley teaks, (£41!).

 

 

 

Many Thanks both of you. This information has helped alot.

 

Chris

[Porfuera]

On 12/09/2023 at 09:38, SteveM666 said:

I was tempted for a while. After Hornby club discount (points online or 10% at the HVC) and comparing the postage rates (free from Hornby) the price gap narrows considerably. There is also a guest ion of tax - not sure of the exact regulations, but now we have left the EU is VAT payable on larger amounts?

 

Apologies for straying off-topic...

 

I haven't bought from MBU but I made a purchase of some track from MSL earlier this year and they (i.e. the website) deducted German VAT from the purchase price prior to payment and when the parcel arrived in the UK, no UK VAT was charged. Therefore I effectively received my goods VAT-free. I have no connection with MSL other than that one-off purchase.

 

The ex-VAT price of my purchase was less than £135 and I believe that no UK VAT is currently being charged on imports where the ex-VAT price is under £135. I think UK VAT is supposed to be charged on all incoming parcels regardless of value but HMRC don't have enough staff to do this so they've implemented this £135 cutoff. Either that or overseas retailers are supposed to charge the UK VAT and reimburse HMRC but that would obviously be a lot of extra work for them so they leave it to HMRC.

 

There is obviously a danger that goods valued at less than £135 might still get charged VAT in spite of this or that the policy may have changed.

 

Parcels valued over £135 that do attract UK VAT might also attract a handling charge from the courier once the parcel arrives in the UK - the amount depends on the courier.

 

I'm no expert on this and the above is my understanding from reading some threads here on RMweb, plus the experience of my one-off purchase. I'm sure someone with greater knowledge of this will be able to correct any errors!

 

However, as far as HM7000 is concerned, it is probably worth looking at other UK-based retailers of HM7000 (i.e. not Hornby) and doing the sums - you may find that the UK retailer discounts more or less match any savings that you'll get by importing from Europe, especially as the postage was something like €12 and you won't be able to purchase many HM7000 decoders before you go over the £135 cutoff. You may also need to factor in credit card or bank charges for currency conversions, depending on your lender.

 

There are a number of threads on this but here are a couple:

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Porfuera

[The Meerkat]

 Hi,

 

just get my head around the dongle,  It will be able to run for example my Bachmann and Accurascale locos & still play all the  sounds and whistles, though i will still need my programming track to change cv settings and address number?

[RAF96]

33 minutes ago, The Meerkat said:

 Hi,

 

just get my head around the dongle,  It will be able to run for example my Bachmann and Accurascale locos & still play all the  sounds and whistles, though i will still need my programming track to change cv settings and address number?

Basically yes.

The only purpose of the dongle is to send app commands via your Xpressnet capable DCC controller to non Bluetooth decoders. If your decoder supports it then you can control it from the app.

Note that any controller limitations will still apply, E.g. Hornby Select addressing range.

You can only program DCC decoders thru’ the rails so yes you will use your programming track and DCC controller prog output unless programming on the main if your controller supports it.