WIMorrison Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 You will need the ESU LokProgrammer for ESU decoders, but it is only the same price as a sound decoder and given the vastly superior quality of the sounds and capabilities of the ESU decoders that is good value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium E100 Posted November 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2023 1 hour ago, WIMorrison said: You will need the ESU LokProgrammer for ESU decoders, but it is only the same price as a sound decoder and given the vastly superior quality of the sounds and capabilities of the ESU decoders that is good value. My point i was trying to make though is that how many actually update through LokProgrammers relative to the number of sound fitted models delivered RTR and sold separately. Probably 10-20% at best. I expect that figure is inverted for HM7000 and therefore can be game changing for adding new features / bug fix updates. I agree that it's straightforward if you have the hardware but this effectively eliminates that barrier. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 I have disagree completely with you. All the people I know actively update their Loksound decoders and use the Lokprogammer for tuning of the decoders, and several Z21 users bout the Z21 specifically to be able to upload sound projects and upgrade the decoder firmware. I would suggest that the great majority target audience of the HM7000 will never update their decoders and will only update the app because it is forced upon them by the Play Store or App Store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium E100 Posted November 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2023 Well we'll leave it there and agree to disagree. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob83a Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 New version of the reference manual is now available. It is 36 pages longer than the previous version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 55 minutes ago, Bob83a said: New version of the reference manual is now available. It is 36 pages longer than the previous version. A most interesting read. Unfortunately i fell asleep reading it. The bluetooth chip 31 got a good workout though. (long day at work not a boring read) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Bob83a said: New version of the reference manual is now available. It is 36 pages longer than the previous version. Note that the manual describes some functionality that will be in the next decoder update due at soon - v3.0. Good that the manual is keeping pace with decoders changes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob83a Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 It appears that Hornby are a little confused about the manual version, the front page of the latest version says Version 1.3 but every page has a footer which says it is version R1.2.0. Page 2 also says it is 1.3 or 1.3.0. But it does refer to decoder version 1.3.0 not v3 as RAF96 says but that is probably just a matter of interpretation of Hornby version numbering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 20 hours ago, Bob83a said: It appears that Hornby are a little confused about the manual version, the front page of the latest version says Version 1.3 but every page has a footer which says it is version R1.2.0. Page 2 also says it is 1.3 or 1.3.0. But it does refer to decoder version 1.3.0 not v3 as RAF96 says but that is probably just a matter of interpretation of Hornby version numbering. The paging issue has been reported. Despite the test team having checked the manual, that slipped past everyone’s noses. The version number is simply a short cut - locally in the app the profiles are numbered v2.0, v2.1, v3.0, etc whereas the full designation say v1.3.0 is generation 1 decoder version 3.0. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting. So could I just ask a simple question: Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, BachelorBoy said: I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting. So could I just ask a simple question: Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good? For me they do everything I want of them bar the soon to be sorted absolute stop with asymmetric Brake. Having another completely untethered controller is handy. The main idea for me was to be able to follow the pick-up freight round the layout and do shunting etc. The signalling via asymmetric brake controls all the other trains. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said: I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting. So could I just ask a simple question: Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good? Yes Begs the question tho’ what do you want them to do and can they do it. For me that is yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cravensdmufan Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said: I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting. So could I just ask a simple question: Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good? In my opinion yes! I installed the app on an Android Lenovo tablet. App is easy to follow and the profiles take around 15 minutes to download to the decoder via Bluetooth. Instructions on the screen are easy to follow. I have now fitted four decoders, 8 pin and 21 pin into Bachmann and Hornby locos and found that motor control is every bit as good as my ESU and Zimo decoders without needing the CV adjustments that TTS often required. Diesel sounds are good. Haven't tried steam. Easy to adjust individual spot sound volume levels "on the fly". I really like the system and will definitely be buying more decoders. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Ok I may be a bit slow on the uptake here but f25 shunting mode bypasses the asymmetric brake. Dead handy. Do other decoders do this? LNERGE off searching for loksound and zimo manuals… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meerkat Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 how open are the decoders, can you only add Hornby sounds to them or if for example you brought AS class 37 sound or legomanbiffo sound etc, can you then send it to Hornby decoder?? if so i would swap all my loco decoders and go fully Bluetooth, if not then i have to have the dongle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted November 21, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 hours ago, The Meerkat said: how open are the decoders, can you only add Hornby sounds to them or if for example you brought AS class 37 sound or legomanbiffo sound etc, can you then send it to Hornby decoder?? if so i would swap all my loco decoders and go fully Bluetooth, if not then i have to have the dongle You can only add Hornby sounds currently. I've not seen anything to suggest that this will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 11 hours ago, LNERGE said: Ok I may be a bit slow on the uptake here but f25 shunting mode bypasses the asymmetric brake. Dead handy. Do other decoders do this? LNERGE off searching for loksound and zimo manuals… Not sure if that was a planned feature but having ‘soft’ by-pass rather than using a physical switch or signal or sensor could be very handy. I will check if F26 Creep and F27 Brake also work the same. Note that at next decoder update holding F26 on will give continuous creep at the rate set, currently time limited similar to ABC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Is it a feature of other chips? If not they have certainly got something here. I have a few bypass switches fitted in places where I need to sneak past a signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, LNERGE said: Is it a feature of other chips? If not they have certainly got something here. I have a few bypass switches fitted in places where I need to sneak past a signal. A bit of testing has shown that if F26 (Creep Mode) is enabled… “rail select” for ADCC is disabled i.e. CV27 and 126 overridden.. No ABC action will be triggered. That info will be added to the manual. Have not proven the F25 shunt mode soft by-pass yet, but if loco enters the ABC section and F27 brake is deployed it overrides ABC brake rate and will hold stop until released, which may be handy for you when v1.3.0 is released. Edited November 21, 2023 by RAF96 Amended text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 hours ago, LNERGE said: Is it a feature of other chips? If not they have certainly got something here. I have a few bypass switches fitted in places where I need to sneak past a signal. Yes Zimo decoders have it, can be set to use the same f-key as shunting mode or a separate one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meerkat Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Kris said: You can only add Hornby sounds currently. I've not seen anything to suggest that this will change. that a shame, wonder if Hornby will sell decoders to other sound makers, must be win win, Hornby still make abit of money and we get other sounds 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 44 minutes ago, The Meerkat said: that a shame, wonder if Hornby will sell decoders to other sound makers, must be win win, Hornby still make abit of money and we get other sounds I don't know what sound file format decoder manufacturers use and whether it is unique to each manufacturer. I imagine that there are certain things that Hornby wouldn't want to give away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Given that Zimo sound projects don't work on ESU decoders, and ESU projects don't work on Zimo decoders, and this is the same with other sound decoders I can't see why Hornby would be any different. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PeterStiles Posted November 21, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, The Meerkat said: wonder if Hornby will sell decoders to other sound makers, I feel that getting third-party manufacturers involved is the only way to stop hm7000 going the way of the Zero-One. They need to find some way to "open" the devices up so that third parties can produce sound/function profiles, they need to find some way to co-operate. In my mind, ideally, open sourcing the APIs necessary to communicate with the chips so that control can be built into other devices and other parties can produce compatible decoders. DCC won out through co-operation, without co-operation I'll be buying a new DCC control system in 5 years time to replace the hm7000. I like HM7000, it's a great concept and finally brought me into DCC Sound, I just don't want it to wither on the vine because there is only one company supporting it... 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 I’d LOVE to see a Sound Profile Marketplace making use of in-app purchases. Licensed partners could charge for profiles while Hornby takes a cut. I understand there’s logistics but the simulator communities have been doing similar for a decade with partner programmes, licensed tools and the like. I’m sure it’s easier said than done but it seems a logical step to broaden the user base. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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