Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[WIMorrison]

You will need the ESU LokProgrammer for ESU decoders, but it is only the same price as a sound decoder and given the vastly superior quality of the sounds and capabilities of the ESU decoders that is good value.

[E100]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

You will need the ESU LokProgrammer for ESU decoders, but it is only the same price as a sound decoder and given the vastly superior quality of the sounds and capabilities of the ESU decoders that is good value.

 

My point i was trying to make though is that how many actually update through LokProgrammers relative to the number of sound fitted models delivered RTR and sold separately. Probably 10-20% at best. I expect that figure is inverted for HM7000 and therefore can be game changing for adding new features / bug fix updates.

 

I agree that it's straightforward if you have the hardware but this effectively eliminates that barrier.

[WIMorrison]

I have disagree completely with you. All the people I know actively update their Loksound decoders and use the Lokprogammer for tuning of the decoders, and several Z21 users bout the Z21 specifically to be able to upload sound projects and upgrade the decoder firmware. 

 

I would suggest that the great majority target audience of the HM7000 will never update their decoders and will only update the app because it is forced upon them by the Play Store or App Store.

 

 

[E100]

Well we'll leave it there and agree to disagree.

[Bob83a]

New version of the reference manual is now available. It is 36 pages longer than the previous version.

[LNERGE]

55 minutes ago, Bob83a said:

New version of the reference manual is now available. It is 36 pages longer than the previous version.

A most interesting read. Unfortunately i fell asleep reading it. The bluetooth chip 31 got a good workout though. (long day at work not a boring read)

[RAF96]

2 hours ago, Bob83a said:

New version of the reference manual is now available. It is 36 pages longer than the previous version.

Note that the manual describes some functionality that will be in the next decoder update due at soon - v3.0. Good that the manual is keeping pace with decoders changes.

[Bob83a]

It appears that Hornby are a little confused about the manual version, the front page of the latest version says Version 1.3 but every page has a footer which says it is version R1.2.0. Page 2 also says it is 1.3 or 1.3.0.

 

But it does refer to decoder version 1.3.0 not v3 as RAF96 says but that is probably just a matter of interpretation of Hornby version numbering.

[RAF96]

20 hours ago, Bob83a said:

It appears that Hornby are a little confused about the manual version, the front page of the latest version says Version 1.3 but every page has a footer which says it is version R1.2.0. Page 2 also says it is 1.3 or 1.3.0.

 

But it does refer to decoder version 1.3.0 not v3 as RAF96 says but that is probably just a matter of interpretation of Hornby version numbering.

The paging issue has been reported. Despite the test team having checked the manual, that slipped past everyone’s noses.

The version number is simply a short cut - locally in the app the profiles are numbered v2.0, v2.1, v3.0, etc whereas the full designation say v1.3.0 is generation 1 decoder version 3.0.

[BachelorBoy]

I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting.

 

So could I just ask a simple question:

 

Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good?

[LNERGE]

1 hour ago, BachelorBoy said:

I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting.

 

So could I just ask a simple question:

 

Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good?

For me they do everything I want of them bar the soon to be sorted absolute stop with asymmetric Brake. 
 

Having another completely untethered controller is handy. The main idea for me was to be able to follow the pick-up freight round the layout and do shunting etc. The signalling via asymmetric brake controls all the other trains. 

 

 

[RAF96]

2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting.

 

So could I just ask a simple question:

 

Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good?

Yes

Begs the question tho’ what do you want them to do and can they do it. For me that is yes.

[cravensdmufan]

2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I'm afraid I find reading all 82 pages of this thread rather daunting.

 

So could I just ask a simple question:

 

Is the Hornby Bluetooth system any good?

In my opinion yes!

 

I installed the app on an Android Lenovo tablet.

 

App is easy to follow and the profiles take around 15 minutes to download to the decoder via Bluetooth.  Instructions on the screen are easy to follow.

 

I have now fitted four decoders, 8 pin and 21 pin into Bachmann and Hornby locos and found that motor control is every bit as good as my ESU and Zimo decoders without needing the CV adjustments that TTS often required.

 

Diesel sounds are good. Haven't tried steam. Easy to adjust individual spot sound volume levels "on the fly".

 

I really like the system and will definitely be buying more decoders.

 

 

[LNERGE]

Ok I may be a bit slow on the uptake here but f25 shunting mode bypasses the asymmetric brake. Dead handy. Do other decoders do this?

LNERGE off searching for loksound and zimo manuals…

[The Meerkat]

how open are the decoders,  can you only add Hornby sounds to them or if for example you brought AS class 37 sound or legomanbiffo sound etc, can you then send it to Hornby decoder??   if so i would swap all my loco decoders  and go fully Bluetooth,   if not then i have to have the dongle  

[Kris]

3 hours ago, The Meerkat said:

how open are the decoders,  can you only add Hornby sounds to them or if for example you brought AS class 37 sound or legomanbiffo sound etc, can you then send it to Hornby decoder??   if so i would swap all my loco decoders  and go fully Bluetooth,   if not then i have to have the dongle  

You can only add Hornby sounds currently. I've not seen anything to suggest that this will change. 

[RAF96]

11 hours ago, LNERGE said:

Ok I may be a bit slow on the uptake here but f25 shunting mode bypasses the asymmetric brake. Dead handy. Do other decoders do this?

LNERGE off searching for loksound and zimo manuals…

Not sure if that was a planned feature but having ‘soft’ by-pass rather than using a physical switch or signal or sensor could be very handy. I will check if F26 Creep and F27 Brake also work the same. Note that at next decoder update holding F26 on will give continuous creep at the rate set, currently time limited similar to ABC.

[LNERGE]

Is it a feature of other chips? If not they have certainly got something here. I have a few bypass switches fitted in places where I need to sneak past a signal. 

[RAF96]

3 hours ago, LNERGE said:

Is it a feature of other chips? If not they have certainly got something here. I have a few bypass switches fitted in places where I need to sneak past a signal. 

A bit of testing has shown that if F26 (Creep Mode) is enabled… “rail select” for ADCC is disabled i.e. CV27 and 126 overridden.. No ABC action will be triggered.

That info will be added to the manual.

Have not proven the F25 shunt mode soft by-pass yet, but if loco enters the ABC section and F27 brake is deployed it overrides ABC brake rate and will hold stop until released, which may be handy for you when v1.3.0 is released.

Edited November 21, 2023 by RAF96
Amended text

[markw]

3 hours ago, LNERGE said:

Is it a feature of other chips? If not they have certainly got something here. I have a few bypass switches fitted in places where I need to sneak past a signal. 

Yes Zimo decoders have it, can be set to use the same f-key as shunting mode or a separate one.

[The Meerkat]

9 hours ago, Kris said:

You can only add Hornby sounds currently. I've not seen anything to suggest that this will change. 

 that a shame, wonder if Hornby will sell decoders to other sound makers,  must be win win,  Hornby still make abit of money and we get other sounds

[ColinB]

44 minutes ago, The Meerkat said:

 that a shame, wonder if Hornby will sell decoders to other sound makers,  must be win win,  Hornby still make abit of money and we get other sounds

I don't know what sound file format decoder manufacturers use and whether it is unique to each manufacturer. I imagine that there are certain things that Hornby wouldn't want to give away.

[WIMorrison]

Given that Zimo sound projects don't work on ESU decoders, and ESU projects don't work on Zimo decoders, and this is the same with other sound decoders I can't see why Hornby would be any different.

[PeterStiles]

1 hour ago, The Meerkat said:

wonder if Hornby will sell decoders to other sound makers,

I feel that getting third-party manufacturers involved is the only way to stop hm7000 going the way of the Zero-One.

 

They need to find some way to "open" the devices up so that third parties can produce sound/function profiles, they need to find some way to co-operate. In my mind, ideally, open sourcing the APIs necessary to communicate with the chips so that control can be built into other devices and other parties can produce compatible decoders.

 

DCC won out through co-operation, without co-operation I'll be buying a new DCC control system in 5 years time to replace the hm7000.

 

I like HM7000, it's a great concept and finally brought me into DCC Sound, I just don't want it to wither on the vine because there is only one company supporting it...

 

 

 

 

[Denny]

I’d LOVE to see a Sound Profile Marketplace making use of in-app purchases. Licensed partners could charge for profiles while Hornby takes a cut. I understand there’s logistics but the simulator communities have been doing similar for a decade with partner programmes, licensed tools and the like. 
 

I’m sure it’s easier said than done but it seems a logical step to broaden the user base.