Suggestions for a trip to Germany please

[Phil Parker]

I want to visit Germany. Since I don't like flying, and do like travelling by train (you see a lot more for a start) ideally, it will be rail based.

 

Specifically, I want to visit:

Hamburg for Miniature Wonderland.

Wolfsburg for the VW museum.

Wuppertal for the monorail.

 

I'm starting from Leamington Spa, and want to do this in a week, if possible.

 

The trouble is, I'm rubbish at planning this sort of thing, and so am throwing it open, hoping those with more experience in this sort of thing can make suggestions for a route, trains to take, tickets to buy etc. Budget is a considaration, but as I'm travelling solo, I'm hoping this makes things easier. Proper hotels though, no dormatries, some of us like a shower every morning!

 

Is this a daft idea?

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I want to visit Germany. Since I don't like flying, and do like travelling by train (you see a lot more for a start) ideally, it will be rail based.

 

Specifically, I want to visit:

Hamburg for Miniature Wonderland.

Wolfsburg for the VW museum.

Wuppertal for the monorail.

 

I'm starting from Leamington Spa, and want to do this in a week, if possible.

 

The trouble is, I'm rubbish at planning this sort of thing, and so am throwing it open, hoping those with more experience in this sort of thing can make suggestions for a route, trains to take, tickets to buy etc. Budget is a considaration, but as I'm travelling solo, I'm hoping this makes things easier. Proper hotels though, no dormatries, some of us like a shower every morning!

 

Is this a daft idea?

Contact Garham of Hills of the North and Grantham the Streamliner Years.

P

[Stubby47]

My lad was in Hamburg late last year, and found that MW was fully booked all weekend. So it might be worth pre-booking before you go.

[kintbury jon]

I agree.  Pre-book Miniature Wunderland.  Expect to spend a long time there too.

 

Whilst not on your list, it may be worth looking to see if the class 218 diesels are still running to Westerland (if that's your sort of thing).  

 

We did Berlin and Hamburg as a trip, flying and using the ICE to get between the two cities.  Fast and very cheap if you pre-book.

 

Worth also looking at the regional day tickets which usually cost around the 20 euro mark.  Though these are not valid on IC trains.

[2E Sub Shed]

If you want someone else to do the planning. amongst other companies that will create a bespoke package for you.

 

https://www.greatrail.com/tailormade/

 

Just make sure you have slack in  train transfer times and can move quickly for late platform changes, DB was not at its best last year when we passed through to/from Austria.

[Simon Lee]

Hotels wise, Premier Inn are springing up all over Germany, we stayed in one in Leipzig for 3 nights at the start of December for roughly the same price as a provincial Uk PI.

 

As an alternative Motel One are the same concept and in most cities here, slightly more expensive than Premier Inn.

 

I live just outside Bonn, so feel free to PM me if you need any help or suggestions.

 

 

[teeinox]

You can certainly accomplish all you have in mind in a week, and by train all the way.

Looking at travel, we have managed to get from Brighton to Wuppertal in one (long) day.  However, from Leamington Spa, that may not be so easy.  The obvious means of transport is Eurostar.  So, the journey becomes:

 

Leamington Spa – London (Chiltern)

London St Pancras – Brussels-Midi (Eurostar)

Brussels Midi – Koln (Thalys or DB ICE)

Koln – Wuppertal Hauptbahnhof:  this is the main station, in Elberfeld, where the long-distance trains stop.

 

The big issue you will have is timekeeping and cancellations which makes Leamington Spa to Wuppertal in one day a bit of a nail-biting stretch.  You will probably know of Chiltern first-hand; just be careful.  Eurostar is usually O.K.  DB is not reliable.  So you may want to consider breaking your journey.  My recommendation is Liege in Belgium.  It is easily reached from the U.K. in one day.  It is on the Brussels – Cologne main line, and everything stops.  It also has Belgian beer and a fine transport museum containing, among other things, an extraordinary three-axle double-ended trolleybus.

 

Apart from the Schwebebahn, Wuppertal is not packed with interest.  However, the next-door town of Solingen still has a trolleybus system.  You connect with it at Vohwinkel Schwebebahn station or Vohwinkel DB station where it starts.  Like Elberfeld, Solingen is a post-industrial town.  There are the usual museums which one can take or leave.

 

The hotel we used in Wuppertal is now called the “Flemings Express Hotel Wuppertal”, and is opposite the station.  When we stayed there it had a different name, so it may have changed hands.  Then it was good…. But now?

 

Continuing North from Wuppertal is easy.  There are ICE services to both Hamburg and Hannover, and one of them may call at Wolfsburg.

 

Some people like Hamburg, others do not.  But what it does have is a historic U-Bahn with interesting stations dating from the early 1900s and the 1920s.

 

But there are many travel options other than those I have described.  For planning your travel, I recommend:

 

https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

 

It is in English and covers most of Europe.

 

Happy travelling!

teeinox

 

[Erichill16]

Wolfsburg is about 2 and half hours from Wernegerode, for the Harz Mountains. You may want to stay there for a couple of nights and make a day trip to the VW museum. May be a long day though, but just a thought.

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, Erichill16 said:

Wolfsburg is about 2 and half hours from Wernegerode, for the Harz Mountains. You may want to stay there for a couple of nights and make a day trip to the VW museum. May be a long day though, but just a thought.

Wernigerode is not to be missed. Metre gauge 2-10-2s of substantial presence! 90 miles of network. Bucket-list stuff. 

[Jeremy Cumberland]

 

 

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

Is this a daft idea?

Definitely not.

 

https://www.seat61.com/ is the best global rail travel website (https://www.seat61.com/Germany.htm is the page for Germany). www.bahn.de (the German Railways website) also happens to be the best European train times website, and between these two places you can probably find 90% of what you need. The difficulty is usually booking tickets, althogh www.raileurope.com and www.thetrainline.com now book complete journeys (usually with separate tickets for Eurostar). I've always booked Eurostar directly, and then used DB for the Belgian/German portion (unless DB was doing through tickets from London, but they seem to have stopped this now).

 

Here are train times from London to Hamburg: https://www.seat61.com/Germany.htm#london-to-osnabruck-bremen-hamburg-by-train

I expect the 11:04 Eurostar from St Pancras will suit you best, getting into Hamburg at 21:14, but you might be able to manage an earlier start, or prefer to spend the night in Brussels or Cologne. However, don't rule out taking the overnight ferry from Harwich - it is how I last went to Germany, putting in a day in the office (I worked near Bristol at the time) before travelling that night.

 

Use www.bahn.de for train times within Germany. If you find its in German, there's a language drop down top right. It's as easy to use as the National Rail Enquiries site, and you'll soon get used to it.

 

Wuppertal is really close to Cologne, and getting back should be no problem. There ought to be plenty of trains to choose from to get to Brussels and the Eurostar back home.

 

I suggest looking up the Eurostars first. They book up quickly, and fares are incredebly variable.

 

[bbishop]

Phil,

 

Just jottings.  Intercity Hotels is a good, basic chain.  They are part owned by DB, so tend to be near the Hauptbahnhof and because they are used by DB staff, the desk is manned 24/7.  If you sign into the H Reward scheme, you can get a free CityTicket for public transport.

 

Travelling out via Amsterdam to Hamburg, obviates the 20 min connexion at Brussel Midi.

 

I would work out how many days I would be travelling by train, and buy an Interrail ticket.  My plan would be:

1. St Pancras - Amsterdam - Hamburg

2. Hamburg

3. Hamburg - Düsseldorf

4. Düsseldorf - Wuppertal - Berlin

5. Berlin - Wolfsburg - Berlin

6. Berlin (Tech Museum for trains, other museums, sightseeing, model shops?)

7. Berlin - Brussel - St Pancras

that is five days of travel.  But your call.

 

Bill

 

[jonhall]

How about Stenna rail&sail via Harwich overnight, you can probably do most of a full days work, then catch a train to the boat, this can be done for about £100 for fare and berth depending on when you book, and the date of travel, although I'd add the optional meals. Tram from Hoek van Holland to Scheidam and then Rotterdam, and from there train to either Hamburg or Wuppertal, depending which way round you are going around. You could also consider spending a day or two in Holland and do either Stoomtram Hoorn Medemblik or the NS railway museum in Utrect.

 

Hamburg I would add time to do a boat trip round the Harbour. You could consider continuing toward Rostock, and take a day or two and add The Molli, and/or the Rugen narrow gauge.

 

From Wolfsburg you are not far from the Harz and its narrow gauge.

 

if you are staying in Wuppertal consider going to the Bochum Dahlhausen railway Museum

 

If coming b ack via Brussels on Eurostar you could consider adding a night in Brussels, and visit the Belgian Railway Museum at Sharbeek, so you reduce the risk of a missed connection.

 

Its worth remembering, the CIV conditions of carriage - if you book a series of through trains in one go, and an earlier one is delayed, then 'the railway' has to get you on your way, if you book split fares, and an early train is late, then its your problem for not allowing long enough in your connections. And don't believe anyone who tells you the Germans run trains on time - they do sometimes, but they often don't!

 

jon

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by jonhall

[Andy Hayter]

I personally would avoid hotel chains.  There is a wealth of excellent inexpensive family hotel restaurants throughout the country.  Use trip adviser or similar for advice on which ones are good.

 

Your itinerary probably makes travelling through the Rhine gorge impossible - but you can save that for next time.  

[jonhall]

In terms of tickets in Germany, you could consider a single country Interail pass - You can use almost all trains including IC/ICE/Eurocity trains flexibly, and don't need a reservation (but you might want reservations, which you can make separately). There is a promise of a 49euro fare for all Germany, but that will be local trains (RB or RE) NOT the high speed expresses, and details aren't yet available.

 

Jon

 

 

[Grovenor]

I was going to suggest you looked for a tour on this, https://schwebebahn.de/en/kaiserwagen which I did a few years ago but there is no date yet for resumption of service. Was nice though, gliding through the stations with champagne in hand.

[ardbealach]

Writing as a satisfied customer we have had many European rail trips using Ffestiniog Travel. Not part of a party but personally customised for our requirements.  You tell them where you want to go and for how long a trip you want and they sort out hotels and rail tickets.  That Includes Eurostar and usually Eurorail pass.   For example we wanted a railway holiday trip by rail  from Chester to Bergen in Norway via Germany Denmark Sweden and into Norway and they book us everything incl hotels.   I used the DB rail website for drafting the train times as the starting point for the trip.

 

As I say no connection with them, only a satisfied customer.  I recall they even sorted tickets for Miniature Wonderworld in Hamburg.  (Alisdair)  

 

 

[bbishop]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Wernigerode is not to be missed. Metre gauge 2-10-2s of substantial presence! 90 miles of network. Bucket-list stuff. 

Ian, trouble is, you need at least three days to do the Harz justice!  Bill

[Andy Hayter]

Another thought Phil.  As railfans we have of course centred on getting to Germany (mainly) by train - which is 2 days travelling out of your 7.  Lufthansa (and probably BA) fly from Birmingham to a number of German cities.  A quick check with hand luggage only on a couple of random Saturdays in April gave a return flight cost under £200 - probably little different from the rail fare to get to and from your first destination.  Loco airlines may offer an even better deal - but beware that they arrive where you expect them to.  Frankfurt Hahn is a good 60 miles from Frankfurt for example.

 

Ryanair fly Bristol Cologne (and yes it is CGN - Cologne airport) for a much cheaper price for example - until you add in the extras.

[burgundy]

Looks like you are going to have to arrange a second visit to cover Bavaria and Saxony!

Best wishes 

Eric

[jonhall]

8 hours ago, bbishop said:

Ian, trouble is, you need at least three days to do the Harz justice!  Bill

 

I found the Harz timetable from Wernigerode rather limited, once you have been up the Broken, the choice of where else to go is really quite limited, if you want to get any steam on the Nordhausen line you need to get the first diesel railcar off in the morning, and you still can't do the whole length of the Nordhausen line, you need to get off the railcar somewhere in the tram-train section, to catch the only steam back. But a day trip to the Broken from a hotel in the Hannover-Wolfsburg-Magdeburg area might be quite a good taster of the Harz.

 

Alternatively basing yourself at Wernigerode for 3 nights, then doing a day on the Broken and a day to Wolfsburg would give the opportunity to mooch around the sheds at Wernigerode in the evenings, and the town itself is really nice.

 

As someone who often travels to Germany 3-4 times a year on holiday, these days I fly, but I have the advantage of living near Heathrow, so the first flight of the day can get me on a German train at about noon, and I get most of a useful day on the way out, and way back. I'm reasonably convinced that my grumbling appendix was triggered by 14 hours on trains Munich-Frankfurt-Brussels-StPancras and have done too many railtour holidays where 2 of my precious days leave have been taken up by getting to or from the main event, but I totally get that if you haven't done that trip as often as I have, that the journey is part of the adventure.

 

If you do fly, then Dusseldorf airport is worth considering as well - right on the railway, and relatively small, so transit through is quite smooth.

 

Jon

[jjb1970]

I never went to Germany by train, but I used to use the Eurostar to get to Brussels regularly and used it to go to the Netherlands a few times. After going by train I had no desire to fly to make the same journeys. Look at Eurostar standard premier, if you time it right it doesn't cost much more than normal standard but you sit in a first class coach and there is complimentary food, it's a very good upgrade. As others have said it's worth paying more for a through ticket so that if things go wrong the railway has to either get you to your destination in Germany or get you back to England.

[jonhall]

12 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

My lad was in Hamburg late last year, and found that MW was fully booked all weekend. So it might be worth pre-booking before you go.

 

Its also worth considering that MW opens really late into the evening, you could do a full day of something else, and then finish with a few hours in the evening at MW.

 

DO book, I was lucky the time we just turned up, and got in almost immediately, but there can be a many hour wait - they have a predictor on their website, and today is presumably in the school holidays, but it doesn't get quiet for a turn up on the day ticket until quite late - of course you could contact their press office and use your toy train press credentials shamelessly!

 

[Kylestrome]

For hotels, I can recommend Motel One. There are four in Hamburg and the one in Alster is pretty central and not far from MW. There are others in all the major German cities. I find the price/standard very good for a central city hotel especially the earlier you book.

 

You will find German inner city transport systems are good but DB has developed into something akin to BR in the 70s. The only good thing is that if your train is delayed by more than 60 minutes you can get 25% refund, and for more than 120 minutes it's 50%, but you have to get a note from the train staff as proof of your Verspätung. 🙄

 

David

Edited January 4, 2023 by Kylestrome

[PaulRhB]

11 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Wernigerode is not to be missed. Metre gauge 2-10-2s of substantial presence! 90 miles of network. Bucket-list stuff. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, jonhall said:

I found the Harz timetable from Wernigerode rather limited, once you have been up the Broken, the choice of where else to go is really quite limited,

Brocken 😉 Yes in the time Phil has though the Wernigerode - Brocken trip is about all he will fit in and is an excellent taster as it’s quite a spectacular climb as an audio experience although sadly the pine weevil has devastated the forest and taken the shine off some views. 

As said above you can mix it with the editorial research . .

 

 

Standing start on the Brocken

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by PaulRhB

[Allegheny1600]

If you have a week train riding in Germany, I am going green (with envy!)

If you’re going to Hamburg, I understand the attraction to MW as it is the main tourist attraction there. Outside MW, the historic harbour itself is of interest if you like ships and shipping etc.

However, there are considerable other attractions to be enjoyed in and around Hamburg.

A visit to the main station (haupt bahn hof, Hbf) should be an eye opener for any rail enthusiast, similarly for Altona to observe traditional terminus operations.

For sheer beauty, visit Dammtor station even if for only half an hour.

On any of these main stations, do call in one of the book/magazine shops and see what choice and variety the Germans enjoy. Surely important for a British editor to size up how they do it abroad?

 

Just outside Hamburg but easily accessible via the S-Bahn, is Hamburg Harburg (HH), this is a train watching location par excellence - if you don’t see more trains in one hour than at a typical UK location all day, then I’ll be surprised!

You have numerous ‘Metronome’ services, usually loco push-pull, there also DB double deck push-pulls too.

There may still be some DB intercity loco hauled trains as well as plenty of ICE traffic of different types.

That’s passenger trains, freight is quite stupendous!

International trains to and from Scandinavia, often at high speed. Port traffic on the other side of the station from the international stuff, this tends to trip down to the Maschen yard just down the line a few Km. Not for nothing is Maschen second only to Bailey yard on the Union Pacific in the USA.

Block trains of coal, stone, iron ore, oil and containers, mixed trains of just about anything! DB, SNCF and just about any private operator going.

Light engine movements aplenty.

Finally, at weekends, it’s also possible to see preserved ‘specials’ similar to in the UK, steam, diesel or electric hauled. Actually, during the week, you can see privately owned diesels and electrics in classic liveries on various trains.

 

You don’t have to be a German railways enthusiast to enjoy these things, just a railway enthusiast!

Cheers,

 John