Hornby, A Model World. Series 2.

[spamcan61]

5 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

They are unprototypical;  when they wear out or break- which sometimes happens rather quickly- they can be difficult to replace without dismantling the running gear or sometimes the whole chassis;  with an out of production model finding them as spares can be very difficult; they reduce the number of wheels that can pick up power; the wheels can't slip under excess load so there is a risk of burning out the motor; they enable manufacturers to not add enough weight to locos which means they tend to be more "jittery".    

Yet they are still commonplace on even 'HiFi' continental models. I don't have a new answer / theory myself but the polar opposite views on them in different markets has always been a bit baffling.

[Pacific231G]

4 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Yet they (traction tyres) are still commonplace on even 'HiFi' continental models. I don't have a new answer / theory myself but the polar opposite views on them in different markets has always been a bit baffling.

I wonder if it may reflect different approaches to railway modelling. 

British modellers tend to like to model stations in full which limits the length of trains but also means more shunting so more operation over points at slow speeds. Having some wheels not picking up power can make a big difference there and the motion of the loco is also helped if it has a bit more weight behind it. German modellers seem to prefer busy scenes in which a number of trains can run simultaneously and continually. They often include a city station but one at which trains simply pause and continue. So trains are generally running quite fast mainly on plain track and perhaps with longer trains relative to the overall layout size as such layouts tend not to need fiddle yards or hiddden sidings.

French modellers seem to like beautifully modelled scenes through which trains pass and, even when large club layouts include a station (often their local one) and large hidden sidings, I've very rarely seen any shunting taking place but they do seem to like full length trains. 

I'm not sure about N. America but nostalgia is less strong in most countries compared with Britain and there, as in continental Europe, there does seems to be a higher proportion of diesel and electric traction (locos and sets) and a much lower proportion of steam.

Traction tyres are probably generally easier to refit on diesel and electric power bogies apart from those on Jouef (Champagnole not Hornby Jouef) powered tenders ) . 

These are of course broad generalisations but they may affect preferences and so manufacturers' policies. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Pacific231G

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Hippel said:

As an ex-international planner at DB I did wonder what the Eurotunnel description of an HLP meant. My schoolboy french thought it was 'high footing ' i.e. running!

 

light engines- machines h.l.p. (haut le pied an ex equestrian term meaning an unburdened horse)  

 

Thanks

Paul

I think most of the DB international planners that I used to work with probably understood the term although it was very rarely used.  We used to have an occasional bit of fun talking to Railtrack timetabling folk using it instead of 'light locol' as we used it regularly in conversation with SNCF and Eurotunnel contacts.  It probably also saved us having to explain to some bright Frenchman or Belgian what a 'heavy loco' is  if we used the term light loco.

 

The ET timetable team were all SNCF trained and had no previous railway experience so they only knew SNCF terminology.  That meant that even when talking in English we had to use SNCF terminology with them.  Which also meant translating train IDs into French, or at least onto UIC format spoken in English because we, in Britain, were the only country in western Europe (probably all of Europe?) that used an alpha character in our train iDs/headcodes.   Timetable meetings could sometimes get quite amusing, especially for the night trains, when you would sometimes find people talking - at various stages of the meeting - in three or four different languages and end up with someone having to translate something into at least one other language (usually into French as it happened).

 

Anyway time to get away from reality and back to The Hornby Show 

[D9020 Nimbus]

It's quite common for German model railways to have a "shadow station" (somewhat like a fiddle yard but no "fiddling" goes on—what US modellers would call a staging yard) and to position it underneath the model, using a helix to connect the two levels, especially where space is limited. This may be a factor in the use of traction tyres.

Whatever, they're regarded as a desirable feature, and reviews almost invariably state the number of tyres. I can't remember any "Continental" models not having traction tyres.

[Captain Kernow]

I thought the Mallard episode was fab. Good entertainment and I was definitely entertained watching it.

 

I thought the garden railway was great, too. No matter that it might not be the biggest or 'best', I still take my hat off to the years of toil that that chap went to, to build it.

 

[Barry Ten]

16 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I thought the Mallard episode was fab. Good entertainment and I was definitely entertained watching it.

 

I thought the garden railway was great, too. No matter that it might not be the biggest or 'best', I still take my hat off to the years of toil that that chap went to, to build it.

 

 

He had quite a turn of speed for an 80 year old, too. 

[AY Mod]

41 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I thought the garden railway was great, too. No matter that it might not be the biggest or 'best', I still take my hat off to the years of toil that that chap went to, to build it.

 

I visited the owner, Paul, some years ago and a lovelier chap you couldn't wish to meet. Anyone who can turn this:

 

Into this:

 

 

 

deserves admiration.

 

Running OO in the garden is never going to be finescale but it's great fun to watch full length trains tear around.

 

It will always be a memorable visit for me as we had a new video chap start with us and he'd unloaded everything; absolutely everything from the pool car into poor Paul's garden, several huge bags of gear, huge camera booms and more cameras than I've ever owned. It filled the garden! He probably wasn't impressed when I said "You won't need all that ****". He didn't and it was in the way of many of the wide and sweeping shots he did. It was a long run down to Southend and we didn't leave until the sun was going down but Martin's video was well worth it.

 

https://youtu.be/sH-zH1t0ZIw?t=53

 

I was very sorry when I learnt that Paul had lost his wife; but there's no better project than this to occupy a man's time and mind after such a loss.

 

[JohnR]

Dare I say, that footage showed the railway off much better than what we saw on the programme on Monday. 

[Ian Hargrave]

How true is that….from an octogenarian in an identical situation ….but with a conventional indoor layout and certainly nowhere near as skilled. The programme gave me a satisfying sense of identification not to say pure enjoyment. You see stuff like this and you simply can’t knock it. I still have fair turn of speed btw…😃

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Dare I say, that footage showed the railway off much better than what we saw on the programme on Monday. 

 

The principal difference is if the producer of the video understands the subject matter; in that context 'we' have a narrower but deeper knowledge base than the average TV filming crew as next week they could be filming sheepdogs, car auctions or bin men - we can't necessarily expect them to 'know' as much as we do. Conversely they have bigger equipment budgets! It also helps to have an interviewee who is passionate about what they do; a few key questions (that's where knowledge comes in again) and the interviewee then loves to tell their story; what we do is never scripted, just working through a rough framework, often on the hoof. The next stage is, no matter how good the footage is, how it's edited together. One out of context shot and the narrative is spoiled as us nerds start picking holes in stuff and boring the pants off everyone else.

[RedgateModels]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

It will always be a memorable visit for me as we had a new video chap start with us and he'd unloaded everything; absolutely everything from the pool car into poor Paul's garden, several huge bags of gear, huge camera booms and more cameras than I've ever owned. It filled the garden! He probably wasn't impressed when I said "You won't need all that ****". He didn't and it was in the way of many of the wide and sweeping shots he did. It was a long run down to Southend and we didn't leave until the sun was going down but Martin's video was well worth it.

 

 

Same chap who came with Howard to film Fourgig East?

[AY Mod]

46 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

Same chap who came with Howard to film Fourgig East?

 

I would imagine so; a not very complimentary pic here.

 

 

He's aged a bit since his Artful Dodger 1982 TV movie role.

 

 

Now we know how he acquired all his film gear.

[The Stationmaster]

Now a real bit of finicky nerditis.  Watching last night I am sure the it was stated at one point that 'Mallard' holds 'the world land speed record for steam'.  I'm sure I hear the word 'land' not 'rail'.

 

So assuming I was awake (I didn't drop off this time round) and heard correctly - THEY'RE WRONG.   'Mallard' didn't even reach, albeit by a whisker of. about 1 mph, the speed of 127.659 mph achieved over a measured mile by a Stanley steam car back in 1907.   And 'Mallard's record is some way short of the records achieved in 2009 by the British Steam Car Team with an average of 139.843 over a run in each direction within 60 minutes of each other over a measured mile plus an average of 148.166mph over two runs over a measured mile - thus beating the record for the latter sort of run which had been set in the 1980s.

 

And apart from the shrouded valve gear why did they go all the way to York to look at the curves on an A4 when there is one within a few hundred feet of the design office at Margate?

 

Clearly the programme really is about entertainment.

[SteamingWales]

16 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And apart from the shrouded valve gear why did they go all the way to York to look at the curves on an A4 when there is one within a few hundred feet of the design office at Margate?

 

I only remembered that at the end of the programme with the "Next Time" showcasing the Black 5

 

I presume they went to the NRM because Mallard is "iconic"!!!

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I'm sure I hear the word 'land' not 'rail'.

 

Thats what they said, to my recollection...

 

It'd be fun having them turn Mallard and try to go back uphill as fast with melted bearings in the middle engine...

 

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Thats what they said, to my recollection...

 

It'd be fun having them turn Mallard and try to go back uphill as fast with melted bearings in the middle engine...

 

Only a bearing! After SNCF did its 331 km/h (206 MPH) record run in Landes in 1955 I understand that the track was badly damaged. That run was on a flat and geometrically straight track and, apparently, the train was still accelerating when it had to be slowed before the curve at Labouheyre. I'm not sure what state the catenary was in either but it has been specially tightened for the run. 

 

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Only a bearing! After SNCF did its 331 km/h (206 MPH) record run in Landes in 1955 I understand that the track was badly damaged. That run was on a flat and geometrically straight track and, apparently, the train was still accelerating when it had to be slowed before the curve at Labouheyre. I'm not sure what state the catenary was in either but it has been specially tightened for the run. 

 

I have seen a couple of articles that said the catenary was ina bit of a sorry state and the carbons on the pan were almost non-existent.

[jjb1970]

On 01/03/2023 at 18:40, spamcan61 said:

Yet they are still commonplace on even 'HiFi' continental models. I don't have a new answer / theory myself but the polar opposite views on them in different markets has always been a bit baffling.

 

They seem to be a very mainland European thing. They are not normal on Chinese models, or Japanese, North American or Australian (at least not on the ones I have or have seen). However, they're pretty much the norm for European continental outline. 

 

I'm not sure they're necessary to add haulage capability which is the reason often given, as my NA and Asian prototypes as well as most of my British outline are fully capable of operating prototypical trains without needing tyres.

[Pacific231G]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I have seen a couple of articles that said the catenary was ina bit of a sorry state and the carbons on the pan were almost non-existent.

What I've never quite got my head around was how SNCF could get away with closing a major main line (Bordeaux to Dax , Bayonne, Biarritz and Spain) for what must have been several days just to carry out speed trials. "Your little journeys are as nothing compared to la Gloire de France" perhaps? 

[ikcdab]

"0.6mm, not even the width of a human hair".  Simon must have very thick hair.....(9f episode, talking about the wheel spacing)

[Pacific231G]

8 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

"0.6mm, not even the width of a human hair".  Simon must have very thick hair.....(9f episode, talking about the wheel spacing)

Indeed - the figure I have for the width of a human hair is 0.12mm so he was out by a factor of five.

[Hroth]

24 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Indeed - the figure I have for the width of a human hair is 0.12mm so he was out by a factor of five.

 

Par for the course for some Hornby measurements...

 

Oh well, not to be picky, I wonder what exciting new developments will be revealed on Monday!

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Hroth
Positivity!

[Chris116]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

Indeed - the figure I have for the width of a human hair is 0.12mm so he was out by a factor of five.

Details, details, details!

[Covkid]

On 07/02/2023 at 08:39, Pint of Adnams said:

ModelU had a stand and were scanning individuals for reproduction in 7mm scale at the Gauge O Guildex in 2019 - so nothing new, just another borrowed idea.

Was that at Telford ? 

Reminds me because Alan scanned me there and I haven't ordered myself from him yet.  Hopoe he still has my file !!! Will get in touch with him.  I particularly wanted a footplateman leaning over the cabside looking straight down.  He could then be looking at the injector outflow, talking to a guard or shunter on the ground, or simply whiling away a few minutes looking at the ballast.  That would create a non directional pose - well in my view anyway !!  

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

 I wonder what exciting new developments will be revealed on Monday!

 

A new version of a BR Clan called Hengist (Pod) and it will have square wheels. They aim to start a new trend and be first to market.😄