Warley NEC National Show 25th & 26th November 2023

[johndon]

We had a great time at Warley with South Pelaw.  We won the Signalling Record Society 'Best Signalled Model Railway' award and, given the quality of layouts we were very surprised to also get the Railway Modeller Layout of the Show award.

 

Having heard some horror stories about unloading and loading I have to say that the NEC organisation was fantastic, we got pretty much straight in to the hall on Friday and, yesterday, had the van loaded and on the road by 7, not bad for a 40' * 16' layout.

[adb968008]

40 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

 

 

Sadly, since Barry stepped down from this role things have gone downhill. Things that we took for granted as demonstrators that made the experience pleasant have been eroded one by one. This culminated at around 3pm on Sunday when I was informed that my expenses would not be paid, at least in full, as the "club" would only pay fuel at 25p per mile. Not withstanding the fact that my Subaru burns more than this, the Warley show is a registered business and as such should pay the Inland Revenue rate of 45p per mile. It's not just the fuel cost, other running costs should be factored in.

 

 

 

 

Sorry we didnt get to meet this year, I was too tight on time all weekend.
 

But fwiw on the subject of mileage, not all companies have to offer the IR mileage rate, but if you self assess you can claim back the difference yourself.

 

 

[woodenhead]

I do feel that when people say there were no big layouts here they mean no big roundy-roundy OO layouts full of modern bright lights.

 

There were plenty of large layouts but in N, 3mm, 009 and 7mm - the smaller scales just take up less space to achieve the same objective and the larger scale needs more space but still offers some lovely opporunities for interesting operation.

 

And it's not like there weren't 4mm layouts - South Pelaw, Hewisbridge and others were in attendance.

 

I really enjoyed the mix of scales, eras and layout types and I must be in a minority of people who went there to look at model trains than hunt for bargains, all I bought was some stuff from Digitrains and a small packet of replacement springs from DCC Concepts.

 

Some people expect to see extra bargains, why is that?  If all the stalls were offering the level of bargains people expect then basically it would be a firesale and we really don't want that do we?  I am rather glad the Bachmann scrum stand has gone, I did see that MCC had a lot of bargains and Dapol had keen prices - but for the actual model shops do we really expect them to sell everything cheaper than they've had them in their other sales.

[Hobby]

40 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

as the "club" would only pay fuel at 25p per mile. Not withstanding the fact that my Subaru burns more than this,

 

25p/mile equates to 28mpg, that must be one thirsty car, I've a feeling 25p would easily cover most people's fuel, I'm surprised they didn't tell you the rate beforehand, everywhere I've exhibited has...

 

Regarding the rest I can't help thinking that you may have been better airing your complaints to the organisers first and await their response.

[johndon]

Just now, Chris Chewter said:

 

Which layout was this? Sadly I wasn't able to get to Warley this weekend but that layout does look very nice!

 

I can't remember it's name but it looked even better in the flesh, it was stunning.

[Mallard60022]

51 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

For the small, specialist, trader it is a matter of choosing the right shows to attend. The very large shows attract a different profile of modeller to the smaller Society shows. The former are predominantly RTR buyers and are often attracted by the thought of getting a bargain from the competing RTR retailers or buying products their local shop doesn't carry. So the small kits and bits supplier is of little interest to them.

 

As Chris M points out, stand rent is just one of the costs involved in trading at Warley or Alexander Palace and without enough buyers for your products, it isn't viable. Polybear mentions the Society shows (and other "fine-scale" shows such as York or Aylesbury Railex for example) which do attract sufficient customers to make it viable, despite often having the  same travel and accommodation expenses.

 

It is an indication of the increasing separation in the hobby between those that prefer to buy RTR/RTP models and those whose interest lies in building them from kits.

Absolutely. I worked with the late Geoff Brewin a few times at some shows. He died in 2014 and had already cut out loads of Shows as they just weren't viable, BUT he was till selling the Comet product to Modellers on line and on the phone, in large amounts, because he ran a decent Website and very good Postal services. He did attend Warley until 2013 I think it was, but really only used it as a collection point for already purchased/ordered items and to sell mainly to the 'other' Modellers associated with layouts etc at the Show, as they knew he was going to be there. He also didn't need to stay over as he lived near enough to go home.

He only did Donny as he could stay with me and York as he used that as an extended 'weekend away' with his wife and again another collection place for ordered products. 

With  the ability to use Technology  and Social Media now, including RMWeb and almost instant delivery options (e.g. Fox Transfers next day every time), the costs of hiring a stand, accommodation and Transport and the faff and exhaustion at these huge shows, for the likes of  Andrew at MSE/Comet/etc, is just not really on.  

As suggested several times on here already, the whole specialist selling market has and is changing, as is almost all Trading these days.

Phil

[RedgateModels]

14 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I'm surprised they didn't tell you the rate beforehand, everywhere I've exhibited has...

 

This is pretty much the point. My rates are quite clear in my info and they have never been queried before, nor were they before this year's show. I sent TWO copies of my expenses claim in before the show, only to be asked to fill in another at 3pm on Sunday. It was only at this point was the new mileage rate quoted. It seems that this is a new thing for 2023, management has changed etc.

 

This was the straw that broke the camel's back, there were lots of other little erosions into the experience that I will not go into. 

 

It's just time for me to hang up my sack trolley, I'm not the first demo that has taken this decision, Don't think I will be the last.

Edited November 27, 2023 by RedgateModels

[PaulRhB]

16 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I am rather glad the Bachmann scrum stand has gone, I did see that MCC had a lot of bargains

People not noticing they are the same thing? 🤣

[adb968008]

My plans changed a little this weekend, my usual pattern is to bring the family.

Saturday they do there thing whilst I do Warley shopping / nattering.

Sunday we all go in for the layouts.

My little one is in rehearsals for Disney at the moment, so this year I was coming alone, though she still wanted to come along. So a last minute change instead saw the two of us came up for the saturday and she went around with a friend. Unfortunately it also meant a race back to the studios on sunday am (she actually left the NEC in costume sunday am !), so I had to stick with 1 day this year.

 

I ran out out time to do too many layouts, my favourites by far was Dawlish and the Blackpool trams. I thought the Blackpool tram layout had died years ago, last time I saw it was at least 30 years ago !

 

 

its interesting how so many eyes have been drawn to a layout that didnt actually run any stock !

 

 

The centre piece is exactly, its the focal point, I couldnt imagine Warley without it..

 

finally this caught my eye on the Peco stand..

 

As for shopping…

 

a bit of a damp squid for me… I picked up some Regent tanks from Heljan, and Hornbys 2MT 78022, and a couple of knackered N7’s. That was it really. I came away from Warley with the least amount of shopping Ive ever done, I spent more on the Hattons sale on Friday. There just didnt seem to be something to appeal.

 

finally a TT layout, Hornbys 50 did sound pretty good !

 

 

 

 

on the trade side,

 

A lot more evolving EPs, the recent announcements of a 44, 323, and 2x WDs were more marketing than substance at this stage.

Theres a lot “due”.. the class 02,11,104, 47 from Heljan, and the 31, mk2, mk1 sub were there last year on Accurascales stand. Bachmanns range livened the show with the 69’s first appearance, and the EFE 2000x. They also revealed the refurb CEP but things like the wcrc mk1’s, 25 have been looking pretty EPs for a long time now. Its taking a long time for stuff to arrive, and suspect that muted my spend as there wasnt either a bargain to clear or a new release wow to must buy.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by adb968008

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 Normally £145 DCC fitted N gauge Peter Witt trams on the MCC stand with £109 off? 😁 

The stealth Bachmann sales stand has done other good bargains too, N gauge 08’s for £100. 

DCC sound Bachmann GP30 for £80 - listed at £199 by Bachmann

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, PaulRhB said:

People not noticing they are the same thing? 🤣

What I saw was a load of stock that had not sold, the scrum to me was also a pile of returns that had been fixed as well.  Maybe by the time I passed it by most of it had sold, or I wasn't really paying close attention to everything, I saw some Farish Mk1s for £19 but I really don't need any more of them 😁

[30368]

12 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

its interesting how so many eyes have been drawn to a layout that didnt actually run any stock !

 

 

Yes but this is a simply wonderful creation of the railway running through the countryside of England. Just First Class in my view. Wish I had attended just to be inspired by this! I intend to visit The Manchester Show, perhaps it will be there?

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

[Mallard60022]

12 minutes ago, 30368 said:

 

Yes but this is a simply wonderful creation of the railway running through the countryside of England. Just First Class in my view. Wish I had attended just to be inspired by this! I intend to visit The Manchester Show, perhaps it will be there?

Kind regards,

30368

Exactly. I am sorry to say I'd rather have a smaller show with a load more layouts of Trains in a Landscape. Even just Landscape! Having some gentle Demo Tables and some specialist sales stuff is also just right.

It's rather like going for a Coffee and maybe Cake in a local Cafe, instead of doing the Meadowhell or similar, on a Saturday near Christmas when one of the Sheffield Teams is at home, The Steelers are at home, the Lights are being switched on by Ed Sheeran and the weather is sh1te.

However, the Warley thing is hugely popular and seems very well organised, so that's absolutely fine with me, as obviously so many get pleasure from it.

Unfortunately, decent people such as Redgate are now lost to it. That is sad.

Phil (getting even more Meldrew like by the Month).

 

[LNERandBR]

I very much enjoyed my visit to Warley yesterday. Spent far too much on DMUs, a shout out to Charlie on DCKits for blowing two decoders for me to upgrade one of his last Provincial 156 DMUs to sound.

 

Layout of the show for me has to go to Bron Hebog. A spectacular recreation of the real area around Beddgelert. 

 

 

I agree that the lack of specialist trade is a shame. Sadly I think it's not only the stand rent costs that have priced them out but the accommodation, food and fuel costs too. I really see no way that those areas can be improved for them.

Edited November 27, 2023 by LNERandBR

[PaulRhB]

17 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I am sorry to say I'd rather have a smaller show with a load more layouts of Trains in a Landscape. Even just Landscape! Having some gentle Demo Tables and some specialist sales stuff is also just right.

But they exist too! This thread always contains gripes about it.
Warley caters for many sections of the market, it not doing every scale trader and layout under the sun allows, Railex, Scaleforum, Narrow Gauge South and Larkrail to fill other gaps then it works. If people disapprove then don’t go, support more small shows instead though. I go to as many of the above as I can each year and enjoy different bits of each. If I liked everything at Warley I’d need at least three days to do it justice! 

[Mike_Walker]

I went yesterday and, thanks to a near empty M40 and a train arriving at Marston Green as I stepped onto the platform, arrived half an hour earlier than I planned but was able to join the queue for early admission having bought my ticket on line on Friday.  After the reports of early queuing on Saturday, it was pleasant surprise to see a fairly short queue yesterday.  However, to me what was noticeable all day was that the crowds seemed to be much thinner than on previous Sundays although I’m told Saturday was very busy.

 

Like others, I was a bit disappointed this year.  For me, there were too few layouts with what I call the “wow factor” which I expect at something that bills itself as a “national” exhibition.  There were a few, South Pelaw was fantastic, Bron Hebog, and the ever wonderful Copenhagen Fields but generally I thought most were what I regard as “average” and, as others have said, too many appeared to be representing the modern strike days!  Of all the exhibitions I’ve attended in 2023 I’d say that this year’s Warley had, for me, the lowest standard of layouts.  The last show I went to before this was Uckfield where every layout was to my mind to a far higher standard than most of those at Warley.  I do, of course, appreciate we all have differing tastes and standards and Warley aims to satisfy all of the people some of the time but cannot satisfy all the people all of the time.

 

I too was disappointed by the number of small traders absent this year.  Warley was always the event for which I’d be drawing up a shopping list of bits and bobs for weeks in advance knowing that I could visit many stands and fulfil my needs but one by one, each year they’ve disappeared.  Some, like the much missed Eileen’s Emporium have disappeared altogether whilst others have understandably come to the conclusion that attending is no longer viable for them.  Having checked the attendance list in advance I didn’t even go with a list!

 

Now it would seem even the big boys are starting to give it a miss.  One of the “big box shifters” was noticeable by their absence.

 

Sadly, I have to say that based on this year’s experience, Warley is not what it was and after attending every year for longer than I care to remember this might well be my last unless next year’s show (if it happens) has a more encouraging line up.

[Adrian Stevenson]

1 hour ago, Chris Chewter said:

 

Which layout was this? Sadly I wasn't able to get to Warley this weekend but that layout does look very nice!

It was done by Paul Bambrick. 
 

Cheers, Ade.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I am rather glad the Bachmann scrum stand has gone, I did see that MCC had a lot of bargains

It's part of Bachmann

[Gilbert]

1 hour ago, Chris Chewter said:

 

Which layout was this? Sadly I wasn't able to get to Warley this weekend but that layout does look very nice!

It was a diorama shown by Paul Bambrick and Neil Podbery who were demoing...it was my favourite exhibit FWIW.

Chris H

[Gilbert]

Duplicate post

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Gilbert

[Gilbert]

Duplicate post

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Gilbert

[LNERandBR]

Thing about the smaller traders, it's not just Warley they are not attending, it's other shows as well. It's the costs when added together that make it unviable, not just stand rent.

 

If the Warley Ckub tried to subsidise those traders then you would see fewer layouts as they need to balance things out as well.

 

I have realised the one thing that annoyed me, the hall maps dotted around didn't give you a stand list. Yes, you had stand numbers but not what each stand number was. This being unlike previous years.

 

I understand the reason for not doing a show guide but withholding basic information when you are in the show is sad to see. Feels it was a push to make you purchase the printed showmap.

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, melmerby said:

It's part of Bachmann

Indeed, it's the shop in Hinckley that they set up with big fanfare.

 

I did know this when I commented earlier and unless I missed it as I was at the other end of the exhibition in the morning, the shop was not attracting the attention that the scrum did.  Like I said, I was not looking for bargains, I was there for the layouts.

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Indeed, it's the shop in Hinckley that they set up with big fanfare.

 

I did know this when I commented earlier and unless I missed it as I was at the other end of the exhibition in the morning, the shop was not attracting the attention that the scrum did.  Like I said, I was not looking for bargains, I was there for the layouts.

The main difference from the scrum seemed to be that most (all?) the stock was brand new, unlike the scrum where it was returns and suchlike.

It wasn't over busy Sat or Sun.

[adb968008]

with Warley, I always make a plan…

 

military precision…

 

and as always that plan never survives the first encounter with a retailer..

 

 

 

 

I do agree, it felt less busy, I didnt see as many back packs.

Last year I did a “drop” on my purchases at the door and sent my wife back to the room so I could go on.. This year I had only 1 bag.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by adb968008