A plea for organisers - please fully describe the layouts !

[AY Mod]

37 minutes ago, Legend said:

really not much work extra

 

You've never had to wrestle with the World of Railways CMS. I'm still amazed we hosted our Virtual Shows on it but that necessitated homing the images on the RMweb server. Definitely not WYSIWIG.

[rob D2]

15 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Please don’t ever come to any show I ever organise, you’d be sure to find something to complain about!

 

FFS

Don't worry we won't . Hope it fails with your level of arrogance .

 

All I asked was " can we have some more basic info ". Not aggressively, not unreasonably .... 

 

And so far i've been called selfish , unsupportive .. more trolls than under a bridge on my thread .

 

Thanks to those to have a reasonable outlook to a simple question .

[rob D2]

4 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

This is bizarre.

 

An exhibition organiser telling potential visitors to stay away because they want a bit more information on what's in an exhibition. 

 

I see John Cleese wants to revive Fawlty Towers. Perhaps he should set it in a model railway club.

 

 

Spot on . 

[298]

4 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

If I might quote the OP, I have highlighted the parts that - in my opinion - may have raised hackles/opened the can of worms.

Nothing wrong or unreasonable about the request for more information about layouts, but is it really the case that if there's not at least one or more layouts at a Show that fit in precisely with someone's interests, that they will find NOTHING of interest, AT ALL, and by implication, not attend...???? 

As I said in my first response, I wouldn't attend any Shows if I applied such a viewpoint. I think that is where the problem has arised from in this Thread, not the simple request for more information.

 

Converse to the general reason for this thread, perhaps it's best if some shows don't advertise which layouts will be there- if it's only going to be full of the same old layouts in indifferent quality or improbable whimsies.

 

This may sound churlish but if I'm going to be attending more than the median of two shows per year despite work and family priorities then I have reason to be choosy. 

 

It seems the term "exhibition layout" is still as vague as ever, and merely implies that a layout has been exhibited. Those closest thing to any kind of standard is having the top of the backscene at elbow height!

[F-UnitMad]

5 hours ago, Legend said:

Some people have broader model railway interests , with others it’s more narrow modelling a particular company or time period . Neither is right or wrong it’s whatever floats your boat

Personal choice indeed, but those with a narrower focus don't like to be told that by anyone else, it seems. 🤔

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

 

Converse to the general reason for this thread, perhaps it's best if some shows don't advertise which layouts will be there- if it's only going to be full of the same old layouts in indifferent quality or improbable whimsies.

 

This may sound churlish but if I'm going to be attending more than the median of two shows per year despite work and family priorities then I have reason to be choosy. 

 

It seems the term "exhibition layout" is still as vague as ever, and merely implies that a layout has been exhibited. Those closest thing to any kind of standard is having the top of the backscene at elbow height!

in essence then , what you are saying is that exhibitions who know the layouts coming are mediocre shouldn't give details so people turn up ? presumably they won't go again having been disappointed first time round , and of course selfish , unsupportive , narrow focused people like me won't go anyway as there's no gen .

[Huw Griffiths]

On 12/02/2023 at 00:06, Not Jeremy said:

Please don’t ever come to any show I ever organise, you’d be sure to find something to complain about!

 

FFS

 

On 12/02/2023 at 11:10, Not Jeremy said:

You too buddy, just stay away - please!

 

Charming.

 

These comments sound terrible, don't they?

 

Anyone who hadn't met (and chatted with) Simon at various shows could easily be forgiven for getting a very negative impression, based on these comments. Thankfully, I know the reality is rather different.

 

Of course, none of what I'm saying amounts to a "dig for victory" campaign. I've never resorted to that sort of nonsense - and I never would.

 

I leave that garbage to other people.

 

 

On 12/02/2023 at 11:15, Claude_Dreyfus said:

Sorry, not sure what you mean?

 

Ah, I get the context now. Okay, fair enough, I am not welcome to any of the shows you organise for disagreeing with you on a discussion forum...

 

On 12/02/2023 at 11:37, BachelorBoy said:

This is bizarre.

 

An exhibition organiser telling potential visitors to stay away because they want a bit more information on what's in an exhibition. 

 

I see John Cleese wants to revive Fawlty Towers. Perhaps he should set it in a model railway club.

 

On 12/02/2023 at 13:21, Flying Pig said:

Some people have very specific interests.  That's perfectly fine and there's no reason to see it as an implied criticism of everything else.  They aren't lesser human beings for it.

 

It certainly isn't an excuse for some of the overt nastiness that has surfaced on this thread.

 

On 12/02/2023 at 15:37, rob D2 said:

All I asked was " can we have some more basic info ". Not aggressively, not unreasonably .... 

 

And so far i've been called selfish , unsupportive .. more trolls than under a bridge on my thread .

 

Thanks to those to have a reasonable outlook to a simple question .

 

What's appeared in this thread is tame, compared with some of the unwarranted opprobrium I encountered on another thread - a week and a half after jokingly referencing a "detail, detail, detail" quote from a TV series, in response to what could reasonably be described as "comical vagueness" in other people's posts.

 

My post was actually much tamer than other people's posts in the same thread - posts which have still gone unremarked - not that minor facts like these appear to matter to some people.

 

Never mind the "due process" of even a kangaroo court - some posts in the thread concerned seemed (to me at least) to have more in common with a Bill of Attainder.

 

I made it abundantly clear in my post that I was prepared to go to extreme lengths to attend the event talked about in the thread concerned (but couldn't get there on time, due to the limitations of public transport). Despite this, I was repeatedly (and publicly) falsely accused of undermining the event and its organiser - and even of casting doubt on the event happening.

 

I still can't work out how any reasonable person who'd read what I actually said could ever have reached this conclusion.

 

Some other people posting in the thread did take the trouble to read what I'd actually said. They could see that the accusations were ludicrous - and pointed this out to other people in the thread - but this didn't stop the accusations being thrown in my direction.

 

It also didn't stop me being subjected to a "pile-on" - whilst a number of people made it abundantly clear that I would not be welcome at the event. (As if I'd even want to be there after those "pleasantries" ... .)

 

Don't worry - I know my place - I also know where it is not.

 

Since then, I have also been publicly criticised for daring to object to the unwarranted abuse I received. (Really. Did anyone expect me to lie down on the floor - with a sign saying "welcome", inviting people to walk over me, like a proper doormat? I know I'm placid, but ... .)

 

 

Despite all of this, I've made it clear that I still want the event concerned to be a success.

 

I want people to go to the event and enjoy themselves. The best bit is that nobody will have to put up with me being there. That's right - the event now comes with added Schadenfreude. What more could anyone want?

 

Not much, really - except for news which will delight some people. As a result of that episode, I'm now seriously considering my future in the hobby.

 

 

Since when has it mattered that I run Zoom sessions for two hobby related societies? (I'm a fully paid-up member of both - and I've manned society stands at shows.) I was also considering joining further societies. Well, I was ... .

 

Of course, none of this really matters. Let's face it - I've only been into model railways since 1972 - so perhaps I don't really belong in the hobby, after all ... !

 

 

Anyway, I'll shut up and "get back in my box".

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Huw Griffiths
for clarity

[Hibelroad]

I’ve not read all the comments but my view on this is quite simple, I’ve always attended exhibitions which were either conveniently local or big shows which would provide plenty to see. Sometimes I would look forward to seeing big name layout, although they could be disappointing in the flesh. However it is always exciting to discover something which draws my attention but I have never previously heard of, Bradfield Gloucester Square, Queen St goods, Halifax Kings Cross to name but a few. If I only attended shows on the basis of layout descriptions I would miss out on these finds. Many fine exhibits are set in scales, eras or locations which I would not model myself but are still fascinating and cleverly displayed. Putting a layout on show requires a great deal of effort and dedication and it would be a shame if that were wasted because visitors didn’t have all the specifics spelt out them prior to attending. 

[BMacdermott]

42 minutes ago, Hibelroad said:

I’ve not read all the comments but my view on this is quite simple...

 

Putting a layout on show requires a great deal of effort and dedication and it would be a shame if that were wasted because visitors didn’t have all the specifics spelt out them prior to attending. 

 

Hello Huw & Hibelroad

 

Huw: Don't give up! The vast majority of modellers and RMweb writers are decent people!

 

Hibelroad: I repeat below what I suggested earlier. I believe it is reasonable. It is in no way 'specifics spelt out'. The 25 words or so might well convince me to go, whereas simply Lordnoseware, 00 would definitely not.

 

Lordnoseware

00, 25ft x 12ft. A fictional country station set on the Somerset & Dorset Line in 1960. Snorking Model Railway Club.

 

Brian

[TheQ]

Locally many shows have gone, I'm having to travel further and further to get to shows. Pre COVID my average distance to trave would have been about 25 miles each way , this year it's going to to have to be about 80miles each way. So  I agree a better description of what's on show will help. With a committment of 4 hours driving plus seeing the show it's a long day to see nothing of interest.

 

One of my local shows, is about 30miles away. Advertising.... They don't,  no pre show info whatsoever, I only know about it because my club got and invite to show. Over the years the standard of the show went forever downwards, till last time I went half the layouts were flat boards with ready to plonk buildings with no scenery.. I've just heard this is their last show... I'm not surprised...

 

I know it doesn't help before show but my layout , has on its sign "Scottish Highlands and Islands" as well as it's name to help set the scene. Noting someone's comments about track plans. I'll make up some track plan notices as well.  Not all the layout can be seen from one vantage point, and the return loop and traverser are hidden under a hillside..?

 

I think my 25 words or less, layout description would be,

Tiree, N gauge, fictional layout of Highland Railways  1963, very loosely based on the Kyle of Lochalsh. line.

 

[ELTEL]

26 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Locally many shows have gone, I'm having to travel further and further to get to shows. Pre COVID my average distance to trave would have been about 25 miles each way , this year it's going to to have to be about 80miles each way. So  I agree a better description of what's on show will help. With a committment of 4 hours driving plus seeing the show it's a long day to see nothing of interest.

 

One of my local shows, is about 30miles away. Advertising.... They don't,  no pre show info whatsoever, I only know about it because my club got and invite to show. Over the years the standard of the show went forever downwards, till last time I went half the layouts were flat boards with ready to plonk buildings with no scenery.. I've just heard this is their last show... I'm not surprised...

 

I know it doesn't help before show but my layout , has on its sign "Scottish Highlands and Islands" as well as it's name to help set the scene. Noting someone's comments about track plans. I'll make up some track plan notices as well.  Not all the layout can be seen from one vantage point, and the return loop and traverser are hidden under a hillside..?

 

I think my 25 words or less, layout description would be,

Tiree, N gauge, fictional layout of Highland Railways  1963, very loosely based on the Kyle of Lochalsh. line.

 

Have a look at the Stafford Railway Circle website which has a direct link with all the information about our forthcoming events 

 

www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk

 

On the menu bar press Exhibition

 

All the information about our September Exhibition, with all the layouts attending listed with pictures and descriptions of the layouts

 

The list of Traders will be added in a couple of weeks time

 

PLEASE NOT YOU ARE NOW ABLE TO PURCHASE ADVANCE TICKETS 

 

Terry 

 

 

 

All the information in one place

 

Terry 

Edited February 13, 2023 by ELTEL
Link issue

[TheQ]

5 hours ago, ELTEL said:

Have a look at the Stafford Railway Circle website which has a direct link with all the information about our forthcoming events 

 

www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk

 

On the menu bar press Exhibition

 

All the information about our September Exhibition, with all the layouts attending listed with pictures and descriptions of the layouts

 

The list of Traders will be added in a couple of weeks time

 

PLEASE NOT YOU ARE NOW ABLE TO PURCHASE ADVANCE TICKETS 

 

Terry 

 

 

 

All the information in one place

 

Terry 

A very good example of what to put on the net as an example of a show guide.

Sadly at 195 miles and 3 hours 49 minutes each way from where I live, you are beyond my range for a show.

[rob D2]

9 hours ago, ELTEL said:

Have a look at the Stafford Railway Circle website which has a direct link with all the information about our forthcoming events 

 

www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk

 

On the menu bar press Exhibition

 

All the information about our September Exhibition, with all the layouts attending listed with pictures and descriptions of the layouts

 

The list of Traders will be added in a couple of weeks time

 

PLEASE NOT YOU ARE NOW ABLE TO PURCHASE ADVANCE TICKETS 

 

Terry 

 

 

 

All the information in one place

 

Terry 

Nicely done , Sir,

Every bit of info right there and clear 

[Halvarras]

On 12/02/2023 at 11:00, BMacdermott said:

Hello everyone

 

I think rob D2's OP was perfectly reasonable and achievable by any show organiser. (Granted that I have never organised a model railway show myself but have done similar things.)

 

Surely, they already have to know the layout name and size for planning purposes. The only addition is a line of description. That one line can often convince me to go to a show that I might otherwise not. And I have to be very selective nowadays for a number of reasons.

 

An example:

 

Lordnoseware

00, 25ft x 12ft. A fictional country station set on the Somerset & Dorset Line in 1960. Snorking Model Railway Club.

 

Brian

 

Exactly Brian, nicely put. That's all we'd like to see and all @rob D2 was asking for. 

What an astonishing storm in a teacup. Come on folks, lighten up 😀!

[gr.king]

I greatly appreciate the effort that is put in by the organisers of good shows, especially in a world of high costs and insufficient volunteer helpers, but with the exception of very local shows which I try to support as a matter of course (even if they have no layouts / traders to suit my specific tastes) I am certainly not going to use up considerable amounts of time and money to travel to distant shows, no matter how grand, unless their pre-show info tells me very clearly that there's enough there to suit me. My financial resources are not unlimited, and I do have other demands for my time outside of railway modelling. I'm not going to spend ages trawling the internet trying to find out the specific details of vaguely listed layouts either. If I don't already recognise the layout names, and there's no indication in the publicity of the supposedly modelled location and date, I generally assume that they are not to my specific taste or are not good enough to be "known" widely. A statement only that a show has say 10 layouts is even more useless. Why some organisers, and others, seem to think it a railway modeller's duty to support shows blindly, regardless of theme, quality and cost, I cannot imagine. There's no law that says we must. We don't all find every form of model railway from every location and date irresistibly attractive. Why should we?

What may be good enough to attract the non-discerning, any-trainset-admiring, general public isn't automatically good enough for me. If the organisers value only the non-discerning, all-admiring visitor then they probably won't be receiving an admission fee from me.

 

For my most local 2023 show, a fairly modest affair, I picked up a leaflet five months before the show date, telling me exactly what the layouts will be, so it seems such things can actually be done, in the right circumstances.

[doctor quinn]

When I do the online publicity for Nottingham MRS events I include railway company or nationality, scale/gauge and a brief description of theme avoiding jargon, for example.

 

The benefit is that a layout in a more niche theme will attract people who may not otherwise come, doing so then drives footfall for our more niche traders.

Edited February 15, 2023 by doctor quinn
.

[DLT]

Many, many years ago, my club used to pay for an advert in the local newspaper; one year it stated that the show would feature "Twelve working layabouts".....

[Phil Parker]

On 11/02/2023 at 02:19, BachelorBoy said:

That's great. Just the sort of thing Would be useful for press releases to local paper too. Details like that will make a preview article more likely as it gives the journalists more to work with. 

 

I'm afraid the days of a local paper journalist sitting down to write a story plugging a model railway show are long gone, if they ever existed at all. Budgets are far too tight on any newspaper to allow this - a sucessfull show organiser gives the press something they can pretty much cut'n'paste into the paper if they want it to be published. That means aiming it as the general public too, not enthusiasts, but for the local press, that's fine.

[Huw Griffiths]

14 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I'm afraid the days of a local paper journalist sitting down to write a story plugging a model railway show are long gone, if they ever existed at all. Budgets are far too tight on any newspaper to allow this - a sucessfull show organiser gives the press something they can pretty much cut'n'paste into the paper if they want it to be published. That means aiming it as the general public too, not enthusiasts, but for the local press, that's fine.

 

Too right - a lot of their websites seem to feature "local" news from the other end of the country.

 

Meanwhile, the "Cwmbran magistrates heard today" style reports also seem to be a thing of the past - and have been for years.

 

When I was in 6th form (about 40 years ago), I'd see those reports every day in the South Wales Argus - and they would be "today" (very occasionally "yesterday") - they'd also be reliable and accurate.

 

Fast forward to late 2012. I was observing proceedings at Cwmbran Magistrates Court ("observing" definitely being the operative term - I've never been in trouble with the law).

 

At the time, a "DJ" (District Judge - Magistrates Court; sometimes abbreviated to "DJ MC") visited Cwmbran 2 days each week. Tuesdays were normally reserved for proceedings against juveniles - the public weren't allowed in.

 

On Wednesdays, the public were allowed in - and typically saw people suspected of serious offences being "processed". Within the courthouse, Wednesdays attracted the rather grisly nickname of "DV Wednesdays", with "DV" being short for "domestic violence".

 

Of course the judge, or magistrates, did hear other cases as well - often drink driving, or drugs related. (Variety is the spice of life ... .)

 

One Wednesday morning, some guy appeared before the judge - and pleaded guilty to various offences. There then followed the usual parade of a CPS lawyer detailing the offences, followed by a defence lawyer going through a well rehearsed "butter wouldn't melt" routine. The judge didn't like what he was hearing - and made it clear that he was seriously considering a custodial sentence - but had to wait until a later date before sentencing (protocols called for various reports to be completed first).

 

A few days later, an account appeared in the Argus - and it was "Grimm". It started with " ... Cwmbran magistrates heard" (no mention of which day) - from there, the "report" went downhill. Despite being told the judge's name, the "reporter" still got his name wrong. (I suspect that she still doesn't know that, at the time, this judge was a Sentencing Council member - and has since been promoted to Circuit Judge.)

 

The "reporter" also didn't take too much notice of what the judge said - claiming that he'd specifically ruled out prison. The following week, during a break between cases, some CPS lawyers were chatting with me - like me, they had a job recognising the case referred to in the "newspaper report" - and they commented that this sort of thing was nothing new.

 

Somehow, I doubt if newspaper budgets - or reporting - would have improved in recent years.

 

 

At the end of 2021, staff at certain local bus depots were on strike, for a number of weeks on and off. On a couple of these days, a reporter turned up with a tablet / smartphone - and interviewed some of the people manning picket lines. The reports found their way around - and were a damning indictment of the large bus company concerned - and its local subsidiary.

 

What struck me as even more damning was the fact that "middle management" could also be seen on the picket lines, with one of their number speaking to the press in less than flattering terms about his employer.

 

Meanwhile, a press release appeared in a local paper and on its website - its placement paid for by the large bus company in question - and treated as if it were all undisputed, established facts - with no public comments allowed.

 

Unfortunately, a number of claims in the press release had already been totally debunked.

 

After a while, this "article" / press release mysteriously vanished from the paper's website.

 

 

You might wonder why I'm mentioning these. Well, if standards (and presumably budgets) have dropped this far, I can't see many local papers sending reporters to local hobby shows.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Huw Griffiths

[pete_mcfarlane]

12 minutes ago, Huw Griffiths said:

Too right - a lot of their websites seem to feature "local" news from the other end of the country.

Or in the case of my local paper, endless puff pieces for 'Only fans' explaining how some not-actually-very-attractive lady has made mega bucks showing her lady bits on the Internet. 

 

Not the sort of stuff you'd wish your wife or servants to read. 

 

 

[rob D2]

We digress , but over here we have endless rounds of " top ten fish and chip shops in swindon ", the restaurants " with no hygiene stars ". If they run out of that guff , we move to " this swindon hse could be yours for £900k" clearly pulled from right move or something and most often not actually in the town anyway .

 

And all this junk ends up behind a pay wall 

[BachelorBoy]

8 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

You might wonder why I'm mentioning these. Well, if standards (and presumably budgets) have dropped this far, I can't see many local papers sending reporters to local hobby shows.

 

 

 

Which is why you should give as much easy-to-copy-and-paste information to newspapers in advance to publicise your show.

 

 

[DLT]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

And all this junk ends up behind a pay wall 

Or its "clickbait" for pages with so much advertising that you can't actually read the item.

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, DLT said:

Or its "clickbait" for pages with so much advertising that you can't actually read the item.

TBH , this iPad is like 2017 version, nothing displays properly anymore , ads and stuff all over the shop 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

My local area is served partly by the Milton Keynes Model Railway Society Show. Earlier in the year, the club published outline details of the forthcoming show in the 'usual' fashion of layout name and scale.

 

I wrote to them on the thread and mentioned that we here had been requesting 'more detail' about shows and perhaps they could consider our request in the hope it would bring in more 'out-of-area' visitors.

 

I am pleased to say that the club has just published some excellent detail - so, full marks to MKMRS!🙂

 

Have a look at their thread (but I'm not sure how to make a direct link!):

Milton Keynes Model Railway exhibition 2023 - Exhibitions - RMweb

 

Brian