Running In Loop

[Harlequin]

Responding to the original question, you could make a mini-layout something like this with traditional plywood baseboards:

 

It's 4ft square. The two big parts are 4ft by 1ft and the smaller parts are 2ft by 8in. So you can see it would break down and store away easily.

The parts would join with alignment dowels and latches and then it would be rigid enough to sit on a table top even if it overhangs the sides. (You could even set it up on trestles and stand in the "operating well" if you wanted... 😁)

The R4 track would be fixed down and sliced at the baseboard joints. I think that should give reliable running across the joints but if not you could introduce some small straights (but that would make the boards bigger and the track less "pure") or maybe use check rails. (You could leave the track loose of course but then setup time would be longer.)

 

[Stubby47]

You could make a 4 x 2 board for one half of the loop, with scenery on, with a folding-up, rear part of the loop.

You could use a pair of firedoor hinges,  to ensure consistency in alignment, mounted 10-15mm above the railhead to give the correct clearance when folding.

 

I did this on the now-scrapped T-Cats, and it worked quite well.

[ejstubbs]

14 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Would be interested to know what “fettling” was required with the rollers, as I do find that locos running on them tend to rock and roll somewhat!

 

As supplied, some of the hex screws holding the rollers in place were done up slightly too tight, meaning that the rollers didn't roll as easily as they should have done.  Easy enough to fix with a small hex wrench.

 

Not so much fettling as ongoing maintenance, but being rollers bearings I find that they benefit from a little judicious lubrication from time to time.

 

Rocking and rolling might indicate that the "gauge" between the rollers isn't quite right - again, easy enough to adjust.  I have mine set up so that the tails of the screws that hold the alloy frames to the insulated base are a snug fit between railheads.  That also reduces the chances of the saddles themselves moving from side to side under the loco.  Once that's been sorted, any continuing rocking & rolling would suggest to me that the wheels, back-to-backs or motion could do with being looked at.

 

I've never had a loco fall of the RR in use, even at full chat.

Edited March 4, 2023 by ejstubbs

[tomparryharry]

9 hours ago, Helmdon said:

Perhaps I’m mad, but I genuinely consider my rolling road (DCC Concepts fwiw) as my smallest layout.

 

I can sit mesmerised watching connecting rods doing their thing for ages.

 

in fact, I don’t just use it for running in - sometimes I have it on my desk while working, with a favourite or not used for a while loco underway. Magic. 

 

No:- You're certainly not mad..  My rolling road is permanently fixed to a length of 3/4" ply. In fact, I used it just last week on a 'stuck' DJM 18" Hunslet Austerity.  Danged if I can find that roundy-roundy, though. 

[Right Away]

 

Here’s a couple of photos of my portable track for testing and running-in etc. Built from spare T & G boards and Hornby large radius curves, it stacks away quite nicely when not required.

 

 

[PeterStiles]

On 04/03/2023 at 07:51, Helmdon said:

Perhaps I’m mad, but I genuinely consider my rolling road (DCC Concepts fwiw) as my smallest layout.

Ok. Interesting direction of thought...

 

Has anyone added full scenery to their rolling road? Embankment on the "viewing side" and fencing on the rear.. oooh. backdrop....

 

Would you want an analogue "backdrop" or a digital one?

 

An analogue backdrop could just be a couple of Peco back-scenes looped around a pair of rollers, with the rollers powered by the track power but geared down a bit for parallax scrolling.

 

A digital backdrop would be a Rather Large Tablet or a monitor that used DCC signals to scroll through some scenic photography at sensible speeds...

 

[Helmdon]

15 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

Ok. Interesting direction of thought...

 

Has anyone added full scenery to their rolling road? Embankment on the "viewing side" and fencing on the rear.. oooh. backdrop....

 

Would you want an analogue "backdrop" or a digital one?

 

An analogue backdrop could just be a couple of Peco back-scenes looped around a pair of rollers, with the rollers powered by the track power but geared down a bit for parallax scrolling.

 

A digital backdrop would be a Rather Large Tablet or a monitor that used DCC signals to scroll through some scenic photography at sensible speeds...

 

It’s got to look like the interior of Rugby. Obviously.

 

lots of guard rails, extractor equipment, and men in

brown coats smoking.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Helmdon

[Matloughe]

It might not be 'good practice' or even remotely acceptable.

However for a 'running in track' I am fortunate that in our current house we have a decent sized oval table - that just so happens to accept second radius curves and a number of straights on each side. Me and my daughter had great fun sorting the track out into its sizes and then figuring out what would fit on the table. It kind of reminded me of that feeling of getting down to eye level and just watching the train go by.

Messy table picture for reference - if you're worried about the power feed - the points under the coaches have DCC clips fitted so transfer power to the rest of the circuit.

Kind Regards,
Gary

[PeterStiles]

7 hours ago, Matloughe said:

current house we have a decent sized oval tabl

May I be the first to congratulate you on your 1970s retro table clothing! I'm sure we had one of them. Or it could have been the lino...

[Matloughe]

1 hour ago, PeterStiles said:

May I be the first to congratulate you on your 1970s retro table clothing! I'm sure we had one of them. Or it could have been the lino...

Thanks, I think it's oil cloth from the local fabric shop as it's easily cleanable with food spills and craft etc.

[Happy Hippo]

On 03/03/2023 at 18:57, tomparryharry said:

I rolling road is a pretty good piece of kit, and as Johnster has opined, easy to stow away.

I thought that was me, a number of posts earlier in the thread.

 

I must be getting hallucinations in my old age😁 Or using invisible ink!

[The Johnster]

I think I said something about them being the best space saving solution, but they are a bit of a one-trick pony; they won’t test your loco on curvature or gradients, or run bearings in properly under load, or couplings when propelling.  

 

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think I said something about them being the best space saving solution, but they are a bit of a one-trick pony; they won’t test your loco on curvature or gradients, or run bearings in properly under load, or couplings when propelling.  

 

Possibly; but for running in, it's a good bet. If it's a hand-built loco, I'd be happy to watch & relax.  

[The Johnster]

For those of us who do not have roundyrounds or test circuits that will allow continuous running, a problem exists which can be partially solved by a rolling road.  End to end BLTs on which a loco has to be run in mean that the loco has to reverse direction frequently, something not particularly advisable for running in.  What you want to do is to run the loco around a circuit at medium speed and power for about 20-30 minutes continuously in each direction.  During this time, the loco should run smoothly but will get quieter and pick up a little speed towards the end of the period.  It will also have proven it's ability to run smoothly on your layout.  Having established this, you can then test it for haulage, slow running, smooth stops and starts, and so on without having to take it's not having been run in into account, and once satisfied, put it into service.  If you don't do this, if you take your loco out of the box and put it on a train and run it at line speed around your layout, it will run itself in naturally over time but you will have reduced it's capacity to run slowly and smoothly and ultimately it's service life by causing unneccessary wear on gears and bearings (I have had 2h locos that have clearly been treated in this way).

 

Not so straightforward with a short BLT.  I have something like 17 feet of run before I have to stop and come back again, which takes about 20 seconds at a medium speed for a loco with scale 4'7" driving wheels, not really up to the mark when you want at least sixty times that run time.  So, how about a rolling road?  Well, you can get your run time, and test for slow running and smoothness of stopping and starting, and I'm not saying that this is not very beneficial, and contributes to the longevity of the mech.   Mechanical running in of this sort on a rolling road will reduce wear on bearings and gears, the points of wear that will eventually be the cause of the end of any model loco's useful life, and it will improve performance, so it is worth doing and a rolling road is worth having.

 

But there are aspects of running in on a circuit of track that it cannot replicate.  The pickup performance, which might be affected by dead frogs, uneven tracklaying, or normal curvature and the normal sideplay of axles and wheelsets, will not show up any issues on a rolling road, nor will the ride of the loco be apparent.  If your layout is an end-to-endy and has gradients involving vertical transition curves, curvature on the gradient which requires very precise transverse levelling in the tracklaying, or reverse curvature through which stock is propelled in shunting moves or as auto/dmu/emu, the possible effect of these features on the loco's running cannot be tested on a rolling road, and the layout, being an end-to-endy, will not amenable to this sort of testing either. 

 

It can be done following the rolling road running in of course, but it is much more convenient to have a test circuit, which is capable of doing the work of a rolling road in terms of testing and running in of the mech, reproducing any reverse curves that the loco might have to negotiate on the layout, capable of being tilted to reproduce gradients, and capable of testing the loco's running through reverse curves and over dead frogs.  It will also serve as a testing ground for stock, in terms of performance being propelled, clearance, and running.  It obviates the need for a rolling road.

 

All that said, I own a shortish BLT and own neither a rolling road nor a test circuit.  My locos are suspended between Lego blocks and tested by attaching crocodile clips to the motor terminals or somewhere convenient, or upside down to the brass eyelets on the keeper plate in the case of Bachmanns*, which works for bedding in the mechs.  They are then test run in operating conditions on the layout, to assess slow running and pickup performance.  Smooth slow running is important to me and I am sometimes not 100% happy with it, in which case I have a range of checks and techniques that might improve matters, and if they don't work on a new loco it should be returned for replacement.  Secondhand poor runners are a bit more difficult; what I consider poor running might have been acceptable to the previous owner, who will not agree with me that the loco is not fit for purpose, and we are immediately into a bit of grey area.  Measurable performance on a standardised test track might help here, but there is no such thing!

 

 

*Rovex Triang locos had similar brass eyelets in the keeper plates which accepted the proprietary controller-track leads, a very useful feature and clever piece of design.

[zarniwhoop]

Taking this a bit further beyond the basic circle, if you need to run-in multiple units it helps greatly if you have a long enough straight section to at least fit a rerailer to get them properly on the rails (maybe not so bad in OO) and then get them coupled on the straight.

[flockandroll]

On 06/03/2023 at 07:55, Helmdon said:

It’s got to look like the interior of Rugby. Obviously.

 

lots of guard rails, extractor equipment, and men in

brown coats smoking.

Or Swindon... or maybe Wolverhampton stayed open... something like that is the plan...

[DCB]

I think all the solutions above have been over engineered and over thought.  For 00 I suggest you need a piece of 4 X 4  Ply   9 mm or so thick and cut a circle out about 2ft radius outside and maybe 20" inside.   Then lay a circle of track on it and run your loco.  Personally I would connect up a bunch of rechargeable batteries, a diode based controller, reversing switch and a 1 amp circuit breaker,  When play time is over hang it on a nail.

My actual part built version uses a plastic round garden table top, it's got as far as the front lawn so far having been sourced from a pile of fly tipping in a lay bye!  Just needs a decision whether to keep the centre as a pivot.  However the whole table would be good.  As another suggestion, 4ft dia wooden circle cut from sheetof ply, centre pivot and wood cut away to leave "Spokes"  use  Battery power and you could revolve the table so the loco works directly in front of you.  Even fit a motor so the table revolves and the train stays still, you could add scenery and... I have to lie down my brain hurts.

 

EDIT   The garden table idea has proved to be both too big to store easily and also not easy to attach the track to without a lot of reinforcing which would defeat the original objective..  Back to drawing on the back of cigarette packets...

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by DCB

[PeterStiles]

7 hours ago, DCB said:

I have to lie down my brain hurts.

The main problem I find with your idea is that I'm so clumsy at avoiding the latest burglary detectors I'd get arrested breaking in the Louvre and trying to nail it up above the Mona Lisa..

[SteveyDee68]

Lots of good ideas here, thank you all. The more I read, the more I think that an oval might be better (I have multiple units to connect up) perhaps with some points to traverse (as has also been suggested). 
 

All current muddling halted, however, by a stinker of a cold putting me in bed to try and sleep/sweat it off/out!

 

HOURS OF FUN!*
 

* The muddling, not the cold!

[tomparryharry]

9 hours ago, DCB said:

I think all the solutions above have been over engineered and over thought.  For 00 I suggest you need a piece of 4 X 4  Ply   9 mm or so thick and cut a circle out about 2ft radius outside and maybe 20" inside.   Then lay a circle of track on it and run your loco.  Personally I would connect up a bunch of rechargeable batteries, a diode based controller, reversing switch and a 1 amp circuit breaker,  When play time is over hang it on a nail.

My actual part built version uses a plastic round garden table top, it's got as far as the front lawn so far having been sourced from a pile of fly tipping in a lay bye!  Just needs a decision whether to keep the centre as a pivot.  However the whole table would be good.  As another suggestion, 4ft dia wooden circle cut from sheetof ply, centre pivot and wood cut away to leave "Spokes"  use  Battery power and you could revolve the table so the loco works directly in front of you.  Even fit a motor so the table revolves and the train stays still, you could add scenery and... I have to lie down my brain hurts.

 

 

Hmm, I tried your idea. Knocking a 5" masonry nail in the Louvre resulted in me being thrown out, and my loop was confiscated.....

[Right Away]

Following on from The Johnster’s recommendations vis-à-vis running in, I run new locomotives on my circle of track CLOCKWISE for 15 minutes chimney first and 15 minutes tender/bunker first. The locomotive is turned around and then run ANTICLOCKWISE, again running for a further 15 minutes chimney first and 15 minutes tender/bunker first. I do this for all manufactures’ models regardless whether running in is recommended or not.

It may appear a little OTT but this method has served me well for many years.

 

[SteveyDee68]

Moving forward (ish) with this…

 

I previously started building a small diorama using the free Scalescenes Loco Works print out that came with a Hornby Magazine a while back; it used an offcut of wood, so wasn’t quite long enough for the full building, and I messed about with the final (shortened) bay actually going full depth with an interior…
 

Decided to strip out the dodgy modelling (mounted on foam board) and use the little box as somewhere for my rolling road to live…

 

 

Here it is, sans scenery and looking a little forlorn…

 

 

2mm thick white mounting board cut to size to insert and cover up the damage on the back…

 

 

Wooden surround (and sides and back) painted a nice shade of slate blue and card slotted in place prior to applying glue. Gap at bottom will be hidden by cork upon which track will be laid.

 

Meanwhile, I have purchased sheets of foamboard to sort out a base for a running in loop (as originally discussed here) to work in tandem with the rolling road.

 

Time to sort something out so I can test / lubricate / repair all the locos I have managed to acquire since 2017!

 

HOURS OF FUN!

Edited May 22, 2023 by SteveyDee68

[SteveyDee68]

So, using the examples provided by @ejstubbs - 

 

 

and by @teaky -

 

 

I’ve added a higher section for tenders to sit upon.

 

 

What I only noticed later (after peering hard at the inspirational photos above) was that there is an additional bit of higher level track to take any leading bogies!

 

Amazingly, I had a piece of fibreboard and some Obechi wood strip of exactly the right depth to enable me to create my own “bogie rest”, although this sits above the lower track rather than on it.

 

 

All I need to do now is organise power to the various track sections.

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

PS

 

Of course, I’ve just realised the disadvantage of putting a back on the box, in that I can only view motion from one side - DOH!

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by SteveyDee68
Added photos

[kevinlms]

On 06/03/2023 at 19:56, Matloughe said:

It might not be 'good practice' or even remotely acceptable.

However for a 'running in track' I am fortunate that in our current house we have a decent sized oval table - that just so happens to accept second radius curves and a number of straights on each side. Me and my daughter had great fun sorting the track out into its sizes and then figuring out what would fit on the table. It kind of reminded me of that feeling of getting down to eye level and just watching the train go by.

Messy table picture for reference - if you're worried about the power feed - the points under the coaches have DCC clips fitted so transfer power to the rest of the circuit.

Kind Regards,
Gary

Does the other half complain about the hole you put in the table for the power cord? Probably a 50mm one big enough for the plug!

[Matloughe]

5 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Does the other half complain about the hole you put in the table for the power cord? Probably a 50mm one big enough for the plug!

 

What hole?
The wires connect to the inside loop via croc clips, to the Combi. The Mains power to the combi runs under the Bachmann Stock Boxes towards the radiator and through a gap under the rails where two curved sections join. Ideally I wouldn't have any 230v on the table next time I have a go at it - the wife was just pleased me & my daughter have time together :-)

Kind Regards,
Gary