Confessions of a Canton goods guard

[Rivercider]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

That's right.  This was also where trains were held for examination before being allowed to proceed through The Tunnel (it is called The Tunnel in the same way that the Forth Bridge is called 'The Bridge').  On the Welsh side, trains starting from Ebbw/A.D. Jc and East Usk yards and running through The Tunnel were not required to have examination here, and on the English side those from Stoke Gifford, Bristol East & Bristol West Depot, and Temple Meads Goods were similarly 'excused'.  At Pilning, the down loop was where trains from further afield were examined, and there were several sidings kicking back off it that were used to accommodate any cripples.

 

To the left of the 31 are the up SW main, down SW main, and the through road that was the start of the down relief, with the dead-end roads next, followed by the down hump sorting sidings.  The down yard shunter's cabin can be seen in the distance just to the left in the frame of the nearest floodlighting tower.

I remember from my time in the Bristol Area  Freight Centre about trains through The Tunnel requiring exam, and the exemptions for some trains starting from yards in Bristol. The Bristol area mobile c&w examiners would visit places like Filton CCD and Wapping Wharf CCD to check wagons were fit to travel.

 

Here are some views of the up side yards at Severn Tunnel Junction. First showing the Admin block which included the Area Manager, traincrew depot, and TOPS office, which I visited a couple of times. 

 

The 08.45 Severn Tunnel Junction to Hallen Marsh departs behind 45033,  the ferry vans are probably to load ingots for export, while the hoppers of coke for Commonwealth Smelting will have come from coke ovens at either Nantgarw, Cwm, or Coed Ely. 9/9/80

 

 

The upside yard, included off to the right a set of single ended sidings, known as the Bristol Yard.

 

The up yard looking west. Pilots 08848 and 08780 were Ebbw Junction allocated locos at this date, Ebbw Junction depot closed around 1982, so Canton supplied the locos after that. 9/9/80.

 

 

Undy Yard was the up reception yard for the up hump.

 

 

Undy Yard looking east, the ground frame cabin is of the 'plywood' style. 25/9/86.

Amazing to think in the following year October 1987 all this was closed,

 

cheers

 

[Wickham Green too]

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

... The Tunnel (it is called The Tunnel in the same way that the Forth Bridge is called 'The Bridge').  ...

... and the junction for Limerick is called 'The Junction'.

[Artless Bodger]

25 minutes ago, Rivercider said:

 

 

Undy Yard looking east, the ground frame cabin is of the 'plywood' style. 25/9/86.

I wouldn't want the job of replacing light bulbs on those yard lamps. It looks like step irons on the upper parts, like telephone poles had along our road when I was a child*, but it's a long reach out from the pole to the lamp.

 

*We used to watch fascinated when the GPO telephone engineer turned up in his green Morris 1000 van, took the ladder off the top to use to climb as far as the step irons, then use a belt round his waist and the pole to climb up to the cross bars. Nowadays it is either a mobile EWP, or as at the mill, get the scaffolders in - for a floodlight bulb change. 

[Northroader]

The shunters at STJ were all radio fitted, to speed things up. All very well, but anyone operating on a private radio channel would get monitored by GPO engineers. It was discovered that the radios were getting used by the crews to contact the bookies to place bets.

[Michael Hodgson]

38 minutes ago, Northroader said:

The shunters at STJ were all radio fitted, to speed things up. All very well, but anyone operating on a private radio channel would get monitored by GPO engineers. It was discovered that the radios were getting used by the crews to contact the bookies to place bets.

GPO weren't above it either, my dad worked in telegrams for a while.  He said that the old boys were always keen to go out to the more minor racecourses on race days to support all the extra traffic generated by/for bookies.  If they could delay the transmission of the result for a few minutes, it was possible to let your mate know before the bookies did, so could place a bet on a known result.  Illegal of course, and it wouldn't work if the results were being broadcast from the course (rather than from a studio based on telegram info)

[The Johnster]

7 hours ago, Rivercider said:

 

Here are some views of the up side yards at Severn Tunnel Junction. First showing the Admin block which included the Area Manager, traincrew depot, and TOPS office, which I visited a couple of times. 

 

 

The Train Crew Supervisor's office, where we reported for 'orders' was to the right of the doorway and the messroom to the left IIRC.  Peeping over the top of the building is the redbrick pub, The Rogiet, which featured a foul-mouthed mynah bird who hated railwaymen (I think he my have hated everyone, but he certainly hated railwaymen).  We, however, rather liked him.  The staff club, a single storey red brick flat roofed affair, was between the two; it had a 'backwards clock', which was brilliant, the sort of thing that would catch you out no matter how much you knew it was there!  The other feature of this rather bleak corner of the planet (the village, such as it was, of Rogiet was 'up the road' a few hundred yards) was 'The Moors'.  This two-storey brick and concrete structure had originally been the GW staff hostel, built during the war, but was then used as a secure facility for female prisoners; it had a rather unpleasant air to it and windows were barred and opaque.  Stories of conditions during it's railway use did little to relieve this impression; 'hot bedding', poor food, lice, roaches, and pneumonia. 

 

I knew a driver who'd lived in similar accommodation at Westbury as a fireman during the war, and he said that Tunnel and Banbury had pretty bad reputations, but Westbury was at least clean and the food was good.  This is a forgotten aspect of the war, locomen moved without choice from their home depots to the big wartime hubs, STJ, Westbury, Banbury and others, especially after the Americans had decided to throw their hat into the ring and the build up and following supply operation for the Normandy landings was under way.  These men were trapped at these depots living in the hostels for many years, as the line of promotion was 'dead men's shoes', seniority, at each depot.  So, if you were lucky enough to be able to apply for a vacancy back at your home depot, the move home would mean loss of seniority and, in many cases, grade, drivers having to accept passed fireman posts and passed firemen being knocked back to firemen or even passed cleaner grade.  You went down a pay grade as well, so you lost money.  Many men did not see driving jobs at their home depots until they were in their late forties, and of course they had to start off in the bottom links.

 

As a promotion system, dead men's shoes is fair in that everybody is treated in the same way, badly, unless the system is expanding and there are advancements to be had for everyone.  Our system was contracting rapildly in the post Beeching era.  Even in my time, you had to move if you wanted to progress, mostly to the one area that had plenty of vacancies and overtime, good money if you put the hours in, this being Southern Region London area work.  The financial gain was negated despite London weighting by the cost of living, especially rental, in that area, and there is no doubt that marriages and relationships were destroyed by it.  Railway work, dependent on overtime and with the wierd hours, plus not being able to tell your partner when you'd be home, was tough on relationships, and the hours were pretty tough on your prospects of ever starting a serious one in the first place, one of the reasons I eventually gave it up.  I was in my early 20s, and wanted to drink beer and dance with girls; the bottom Valleys Passenger link that I was put into in 1976 was all 04.00 starts or 23.00 finishes, not conducive to such desires...

[brushman47544]

20 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I was in my early 20s, and wanted to drink beer and dance with girls; the bottom Valleys Passenger link that I was put into in 1976 was all 04.00 starts or 23.00 finishes, not conducive to such desires...

 

I've never done shift work, but when I've chatted with people in shoes such as this, I always wondered why BR didn't include at least one decent hours turn in every link, so on a rotation basis you would get to work reasonable hours every so often. Or was the idea that only those hardcore who really wanted to work for the railway would stay?

[iands]

2 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

 

 Or was the idea that only those hardcore who really wanted to work for the railway would stay?

Possibly it may have been that a '9 to 5' shift didn't qualify as unsocial hours, therefore you didn't get as much pay?

[The Johnster]

It differed according to your depot, and the duties in each link were agreed by the Union LDC*.  There were ‘dayjob’ turns in the bottom freight link at Canton, but the bottom passenger link was unrelenting middle-of-the-night starts interspersed with midnightish finishes to cover the morning and evening peaks.  The Union was as much to blame for this as the ‘company’, as the idea was that the ‘best’ work (easy clean jobs at sensible hours with mileage bonus) was reserved for the senior men, those dead men’s shoes again, and guess who controlled the LDC!

 

This was in part ‘informed’ by the idea that the senior men’s having come up through the tanks and had to put up with the rough jobs in their time, so their view was that it was only fair that we should do the same. 
 

*Local Depot Committee.  

Edited April 17, 2023 by The Johnster

[ianathompson]

9 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

I've never done shift work, but when I've chatted with people in shoes such as this, I always wondered why BR didn't include at least one decent hours turn in every link,

 

I left a realtively "cushy" number in my early forties, when I left teaching.

9 to 4 guaranteed, although there were a lot of other problems!

 

Afterwards I worked in a factory on a 7-3, 3-11, 11-7 pattern before joining the railways where I worked the 'standard'  6-2, 2-10, 10-6 pattern.

 

The question is,: what do you consider decent hours?

 

6-2, get out of bed at 05.00, bleary eyed, to greet the pre dawn pitch balckness and a frozen car in winter.

You do get free time in the daylight, however, especially in winter, albeit that is only an hour or two.

Go to bed no later than 22.00.

Do not go to the pub for the evening but you can have a social life, within reason.

You can also play football/cricket on this pattern, provided that you play in a local league.

 

2-10, look over your shoulder all morning before getting ready to leave home at 13.00. 

Gobble down midday meal and get indigestion.

No chance of sport on this shift.

You might get to the pub for a couple afterwards, back in the days when they stayed open until a nominal 23.00, but don't have too many as you are on again tomorrow.

An additional problem is that you can rarely come in at 22.30 and go straight to bed.

I used to regularly look at the clock as I unwound and found it going up to 03.00.

I was not unusual in this from conversations that I had with colleagues.

 

6-2, you might get some kip in a relatively quiet job but basically freight trains run at night so think yourself lucky to get three hours interrupted sleep in a cramped chair.

Go home and replay the afternoon shift problem. i.e. stumble into bed at 09.30 because your brain will not shut down.

Expect to get up before 13.00 because neighbour is using lawn mower, next door's dog is barking, someone is digging road up, or other similar noise, insert as appropriate.

You can play cricket/football, although you are probably not going to be at your best.

Go to work half slewed.

Come home even worse and wonder why you are driving on pavement etc.

 

To the best of my knowedge there are no "ideal shifts".

It is just a matter of the least disadvantageous.

 

I retired at 61 to avoid wresting with the problem further.

 

Ian t

 

[uax6]

On 11/04/2023 at 20:38, The Johnster said:

 

 

Another miserable so-and-so was Ray Morgan, good driver but low opinion of anyone who wasn't a driver, and even of drivers who were not him.  Much of his anti-sociability was due to trouble at home, an unpleasant divorce, but I could sort of see her point, we all could.  He was in a particularly bad mood one evening on the Bristol-Newport parcels, and had had words with both me and the Temple Meads shunter when we were coupling the loco on to the two vans in the middle road siding because the van vacuum hose was reluctant to engage with it's partner on the loco hose for some reason, and needed a bit of manipulating.  Happy to ride back cab in these circumstances, on a 46 which was pretty fresh out of shops, just as well as it turned out. These big bogied diesels rode well at low mileage, but could be a bit 'firm', with the springs bottoming out if they'd been around a while without a works visit.

 

He made a point of taking the tip via the window, but I was ready for him. and we set sail on what promised to be a pleasant enough forty minutes or so to Newport on a bright, clear, and warm summer's evening.  I was starting to enjoy myself, but Ray shut off power as we exited the Tunnel, and as I had the window open because I don't like the smell of fresh paint, I looked out to see that the signal at the top of the bank, still nearly a mile away, the one with the feathers, was against us.  As we rolled uphill losing speed, the reason became apparent, as another 46 with the evening Cardiff-Derby blasted past us up the bank at 90mph with eight mk1s on as it approached Caldicot, a fine sight.  I exchanged a wave with it's guard, a Canton man, and our 46 surged forwards as Ray opened the taps; obviously the signal had cleared as the Derby had cleared the junction.  Even a heavy loco like this is no match for a 2.5khp Sulzer with only a BG and a GUV behind it, 202 tons all up.  I looked out again, not sure why, and the signal was green, there were no feathers lit, we were clear to cross the junction to the down SWML main at 70mph, it's speed limit, and were probably well over 60 as we ran past the signal. 

 

Then all hell broke loose.  The loco lurched to it's right, throwing me across the cab, and I was convinced we were going over.  I'm pretty sure the wheels on my side left the rails from the bang and the bottomed out springs when she came back upright, and I looked up to see the BG at a fairly alarming angle, luckily this also righted itself, followed by the GUV.  With the train still running at around 60mph, Ray shut off power and 'put the lot in', resulting in your hero, a heap on the driver's side cab floor with a hurty shoulder, being pinned against the cab bulkhead.  By the time I was upright, we were where we shouldna'been, on the down hump through reception loop!  The train came to a stand, Ray blew off the brakes, looked back to see if I was looking out (I was), and drew up to the yard signal to be met by a couple of bewildered shunters. 

 

We'd gone through a 25mph shunt, the turnout accessing the down hump through recep from the down main out of the Tunnel, at over 60mph, despite the signal clearly routing us to the down main.  Then we'd gone through the pointwork on to the down recep, a 15mph shunt, at 40mph or so.  Ray jumped off the loco, and I was expecting him to be red-faced, he usually was, but he was white with shock and shaking, from shock or anger I wasn't yet certain.  He pushed a shunter out of the way and started walking back to see if I was ok, but I was already climbing down.  He was full of apologies, hadn't had time to warn me to brace, he ws sure the signal was green, how had he made such a mistake...

 

I assured him the signal was green, and that the panel had misrouted us, otherwise how had we ended up where we were.  So he got on the phone to the panel, and if I thought I'd seen him lose his temper before, my eyes were about to be opened!  I thought it was time I took charge of the situation, being the only one of us that was not completely apoplectic, and made my way to the shunters cabin to buttonhole the foreman, who was ringing for the road for us, unaware of the enormity of what had just happened.  I told him I was not going to move the train until the loco and both vans had been examined by the C&W, as I was uncertain what damage might have occurred, and that in any case my driver needed to collect himself before he went anywhere.   I also told him I wanted to put my shoulder injury in the accident book.  Then Ray came in.

 

The panel had refused to admit any wrongdoing, and insisted that they'd correctly routed us to the down hump through recep.  We were not booked to go here, and they were clearly trying to blag it, and Ray was threatening violence.  I suggested a cup of sweet tea for us all, and the shunters set about making it, while I phoned the STJ traincrew supervisor appraising him of the fact that it was possible my driver needed relieving, at which Ray told me he was going to drive the c-word to Newport and was going to do some serious harm to those c-words in the panel box when he got there. 

 

Hot sweet tea, and forty minutes delay to a premium parcels, and with Ray cooled down to only moderately murderous, we set off, but this time, Ray asked me to ride up front with him as he was feeling a bit shaky.  I suggested relief again, but the look told me that that was a ship that had sailed...  We were, however, noticeably under observation by two burly Transport coppers at High Street just in case he made a break for the box, and there was a very significant lack of signalmen looking out of the window.  As it happened, the down Manchester-Cardiff parcels that we connected with and took traffic back to Bristol from was late that evening as well, so very little difference was made to premium parcels arrival times.   Traffic, Royal Mail, and the S&T people squared it all away somehow, but I never trusted Newport panel after that, lying 'stards (and I was right not to, as we will see on two future occasions).  There was an S&T team working on the relay box for the junction as we passed on the way back to Bristol, and they were still at it when we returned with the final leg of the job, the 23.05 Bristol-Cardiff dmu, and we left them in no doubt of our feelings on the matter en passant. 

 

Oh, and it was the start of another unlikely friendship; I always rode in the front cab with Ray after that!  This was a mixed blessing, as he was still a miserable s*d with boring marriage problems he wanted to tell everybody about, but hey ho, them's the way the cookies crumbles round here!  He wasn't an easy man to like, but the memory of how his first thought on that occasion had been to check that I was ok helped!

 

Its a good job you mentioned the two Transport Coppers waiting for you to prevent you heading for the panel, 'cos if you hadn't I wouldn't have believed the story....

 

Andy G

[The Johnster]

It wasn't me they were worried about, it was Ray, who was pretty short tempered at the best of times, which this wasn't. and apoplectic that evening, and had issued threats during the phone conversation from the signal on the down through recep.  Matters were somewhat tense, but he'd calmed down to merely incandescent by the time we'd got to Newport.  We ran in to the Cardiff end of the platform but were uncoupled to run around to the Paddington end where we attached to two vans off the rear of the Manchester-Cardiff (4V20?) when it ran in, and that meant we were right under the panel windows.  As I said, the signalmen kept away from the window, a low profile being sensible in the circumstances, and Ray behaved himself; wouldn't have taken a lot of provocation, though!

[admiles]

12 hours ago, ianathompson said:

 

I left a realtively "cushy" number in my early forties, when I left teaching.

9 to 4 guaranteed, although there were a lot of other problems!

 

 

 

 

Having a mother who was a primary teacher (now retired), an ex.wife who is a primary teacher, an ex.mother-in-law who was a primary teacher (again retired) and a partner currently who's a primary teacher (yes, I don't know why I do it to myself either!) but I've never, ever known a teacher to work 9-4! 

[KingEdwardII]

13 hours ago, ianathompson said:

To the best of my knowledge there are no "ideal shifts".

One of my nephews works at one of the modern container ports. They work 12 hour shifts, alternating between nights and days. The shift pattern is one week of 4 days followed by a week with 3 days. So 7 days off every fortnight. He likes it due to all the time off he gets, although 12 hour night shifts are hard work (I did a job involving those when I was still a teenager, so I know what they are like). Not much sitting around in his job - the place really does involve 24x7 activity.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Chris116]

The best shifts I have ever had are since I retired, 24 hour shifts of doing exactly what I want except that normally turns into what SWMBO wants!

[Dunsignalling]

55 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

One of my nephews works at one of the modern container ports. They work 12 hour shifts, alternating between nights and days. The shift pattern is one week of 4 days followed by a week with 3 days. So 7 days off every fortnight. He likes it due to all the time off he gets, although 12 hour night shifts are hard work (I did a job involving those when I was still a teenager, so I know what they are like). Not much sitting around in his job - the place really does involve 24x7 activity.

 

Yours, Mike.

My brother worked that pattern at the Unigate Dairy at Chard Junction years ago and liked it a lot. Depends how continuous the demands of the job are, no doubt.

 

AIUI, most signalling rosters are now similar to it, but they came in way too late for me!

 

John

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

The best shifts I have ever had are since I retired, 24 hour shifts of doing exactly what I want ...

I hope you allow yourself to sleep on the job !!?! 😴

[Michael Hodgson]

13 hours ago, ianathompson said:

6-2, you might get some kip in a relatively quiet job but basically freight trains run at night so think yourself lucky to get three hours interrupted sleep in a cramped chair.

 

All very well if you are signalman working in a wayside signal box.  Probably not such a good idea to get your head down for a couple of hours if you're on the footplate!

 

While working in a job which as normally conventional office hours, I was once asked to work a continuous 4-day shift over Easter weekend to give the overworked team on that job a break.  It was basically a simple computer operator task, load continuous paper onto several printers and set  some jobs going on a few minicomputers and leave them be for a few hours while the system produced a lot of paper.  Then stack up the print-outs and repeat the process.    This was a project that was already seriously over budget and deadlines, so it wasn't acceptable to leave it till next week.  We didn't get paid overtime, the deal was that I got some extra time off in lieu.  The office was in the West End and In order that I could get some rest the firm booked me a room in the nearest hotel (the Ritz no less!), so I was able to get a couple of hourse kip from time to time despite booking it as hours worked on my yimesheet.

[2E Sub Shed]

6 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

 They work 12 hour shifts, alternating between nights and days. The shift pattern is one week of 4 days followed by a week with 3 days.  

I once did 12 hour shift pattern  - 4 days on 4 days off and then 4 nights on followed by 4 days off an so on. Was pretty standard in the telecoms world for NMC's (Network Monitoring Centres). Also had a 90 min drive each way to the location.

 

Hardest part was to get a good rest in between night shifts, given most of  the world wants to go about it's business, and not quietly. Big light left on on the sky was solved by blackout linings on curtains.   

 

I only did it for a short period, but there are numerous studies relating to reduced life expectancy for long-term shift workers.

[pH]

6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Probably not such a good idea to get your head down for a couple of hours if you're on the footplate!

Officially permitted on some US railroads:
 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/no-more-naps-on-the-railroad-says-new-csx-boss

 

Though that article describes how the (in)famous Hunter Harrison banned the practice on CSX.

[John Besley]

Back in 2000 I worked a night shift in a double glazing plant in Newton Abbot - 4 days Monday night to Thursday 17:00 to 4:00 if our quota had been done as we where reliant on day shift to produce the spacer bars we went home at 3:00 (we produced the parts for the day shift).

 

Everynow and then there. Was Friday night thrown in at double time... never was a problem staffing that one

 

At the same time I was running my own business ... some days I only got 2.5 hours sleep a night - but I needed the money...

 

After 9 months I got out of it as we had got over the ££ problem 

[Michael Hodgson]

On 18/04/2023 at 12:49, admiles said:

 

 but I've never, ever known a teacher to work 9-4! 

Perhaps they should work during school hours!

Is that why so many of the little horrors leave school without mastering the 3 R's ?

Edited April 20, 2023 by Michael Hodgson

[ianathompson]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Perhaps they should work during school hours!

Is that why so many of the little horrors leave school without mastering the 3 R's ?

 

It is easy to criticise teachers, and everyone can remember a bad example from their schooldays!

 

Perhaps those who think that they could do a better job should spend a year or two in the classroom.

They could then endure: largely pointless form filling, daily insolence and insubordination from rampant adolsecents, lack of support from management, a constantly shifting curriculum, invasive micro management from government agencies and stinging criticism from people who frequently have no practical eperience of the classroom.

In addition the job offers poor promotion prospects, a mediocre wage (for a graduate) and, as has been noted, long unrecorded hours over and above the asdvertised hours.

 

I suppose that I forgot to mention the times, out on Duke of Ed, for example, when I was effectively 'on duty' for 24 hours per day, 4 or 5 days in a row.

 

To enlighten the OP of the comment, one of the reasons that I left was the managements' dislike of my insisting upon dicipline and good behaviour of the pupils that I taught.

I was put through the mill becasue of it.

I certainly would not recommend the so called profession to anyone and it seems, if newspaper reports are correct, that many others are now voting with their feet.

I certainly did not miss it when I left.

 

Ian T

[admiles]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Perhaps they should work during school hours!

Is that why so many of the little horrors leave school without mastering the 3 R's ?

Strangely enough they do work exceedingly hard during school hours and many hours before and after "9-4". 70-80+ hour weeks aren't unusual.  My partner also personally funds equipment and supplies to the tune of many hundreds, if not thousands, per year.

 

I find your crass comment to be particularly uncalled for and frankly unpleasant  

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, ianathompson said:

 

It is easy to criticise teachers, and everyone can remember a bad example from their schooldays!

 

Perhaps those who think that they could do a better job should spend a year or two in the classroom.

They could then endure: largely pointless form filling, daily insolence and insubordination from rampant adolsecents, lack of support from management, a constantly shifting curriculum, invasive micro management from government agencies and stinging criticism from people who frequently have no practical eperience of the classroom.

In addition the job offers poor promotion prospects, a mediocre wage (for a graduate) and, as has been noted, long unrecorded hours over and above the asdvertised hours.

 

I suppose that I forgot to mention the times, out on Duke of Ed, for example, when I was effectively 'on duty' for 24 hours per day, 4 or 5 days in a row.

 

To enlighten the OP of the comment, one of the reasons that I left was the managements' dislike of my insisting upon dicipline and good behaviour of the pupils that I taught.

I was put through the mill becasue of it.

I certainly would not recommend the so called profession to anyone and it seems, if newspaper reports are correct, that many others are now voting with their feet.

I certainly did not miss it when I left.

 

Ian T

There's a reason why I know more ex-teachers (including Mrs C) than current ones...

 

You forgot to add another common source of grief - the parents...