Confessions of a Canton goods guard

[F-UnitMad]

5 hours ago, ian said:

Johnster, you have a flair for narrative. Your description of the fishing expedition was vivid - I felt that I was there.

I was glad I wasn't!!!! 

[Philou]

19 hours ago, The Johnster said:

It was winter, pitch dark, and a stiff northeasterly breeze meant that a Per.Way gang working on the up main junction turnout at STJ and concentrating on what they were doing failed to see or hear them coming, and two of them were sadly run over.

 

Unfortunately, I remember that happening - there was much of it the local press.

 

Richard, do you want a map or chips with your last three narratives? There's so much info that I'm not sure that I could usefully put it all on a map. I've only caught up this evening.

 

Tell you what, I'll do the Blaenant bit as it is off the beaten track. Hang on a mo' ..........................;

[Philou]

Here we are, two maps in one. If you want the Gloucester bit, I can do that too.

 

Johnster's Route Learning01.doc

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[John Besley]

What format are the maps in as I can't open them....

[Johann Marsbar]

9 hours ago, John Besley said:

What format are the maps in as I can't open them....

 

The one in the previous post is in Word format - Downloaded fairly quickly but it did take an eternity to display the thing!

[Philou]

15 hours ago, John Besley said:

What format are the maps in as I can't open them

 

@John Besley They're all in .doc format so Word (and presumably Office365) should open them. If you've only got Open or Libre Office, right click on the icon and under 'open with' click on the Open/Libre office icon. I would send them in Open Office format but RMWeb won't accept it, so I can convert to .doc. I can't make them smaller (IAIAA) and when I tried to put captions in .jpg format (that would much smaller to download) it wouldn't save the captions! I haven't tried in .pdf format - that I can also convert from Open Office.

 

I'm not terribly au fait with this new technology palaver.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Edit: I've just checked and I can save the maps in .pdf and they're half the size or less - so I'll do that from now on.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Philou

[C126]

2 minutes ago, Philou said:

 

@John Besley They're all in .doc format so Word (and presumably Office365) should open them. If you've only got Open or Libre Office, right click on the icon and under 'open with' click on the Open/Libre office icon. I would send them in Open Office format but RMWeb won't accept it, so I can convert to .doc. I can't make them smaller (IAIAA) and when I tried to put captions in .jpg format (that would much smaller to download) it wouldn't save the captions! I haven't tried in .pdf format - that I can also convert from Open Office.

 

I'm not terribly au fait with this new technology palaver.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

I am not alone in thinking this effort of yours in any format most kind and generous.  Thank you for taking the time to do this.  It is a very useful supplement to @The Johnster 's writings.

[SED Freightman]

On 26/03/2023 at 00:28, The Johnster said:

I enjoyed my week with the Barry men, which finished rather pleasantly with a session in the BRSA (staff club) at Barry on the Friday.

 

Greatly enjoying reading about your exploits, particularly the fishing trip. Have found M Philou's maps and an old Rail Atlas of great help in finding some of the locations, but no such problem with the BRSA Club at Barry. After visiting Woodham's scrapyard with a mate on 21/04/1981 we happened across the club en route back to Barry Station, our BRSA Beckenham Branch cards were examined and we entered to discover the delights of Brains Dark.

[Philou]

2 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

delights of Brains Dark.

 

Mmmmmm ...... my favourite. SA (Skull Attack) is not bad either, but the Bitter I find too bitter to my tastes.

[Wickham Green too]

I suspect sales of Brains Dark dropped significantly as Barry scrapyard was emptied of preservation fodder.

[Bonafide]

The Johnster,

 

This is a fascinating and brilliant series, which is entertaining and informative about a railway subject that is rarely discussed.

 

You have described how at some places brake vans were well prepared, and at others, such as Margam, where guards had to fend for themselves.  It would be interesting to know how kindling wood and coal was provided.  Presumably, coal wagons worked into marshalling yards, with an arrangement for guards to access a suitable amount.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to document such an interesting aspect of railway operation; it is much appreciated.

 

Bonafide   

[John Besley]

4 hours ago, Philou said:

 

@John Besley They're all in .doc format so Word (and presumably Office365) should open them. If you've only got Open or Libre Office, right click on the icon and under 'open with' click on the Open/Libre office icon. I would send them in Open Office format but RMWeb won't accept it, so I can convert to .doc. I can't make them smaller (IAIAA) and when I tried to put captions in .jpg format (that would much smaller to download) it wouldn't save the captions! I haven't tried in .pdf format - that I can also convert from Open Office.

 

I'm not terribly au fait with this new technology palaver.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Edit: I've just checked and I can save the maps in .pdf and they're half the size or less - so I'll do that from now on.

 

Can you resend them in PDF, would love to see the one covering the first story with intresting sounding industrial buildings etc

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Mmmmmm ...... my favourite. SA (Skull Attack) is not bad either, but the Bitter I find too bitter to my tastes.

 

They now do a 'Bitter Smooth' which I think you'd like, Philou.

 

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I suspect sales of Brains Dark dropped significantly as Barry scrapyard was emptied of preservation fodder.

 

There were, and are, plenty of people in Barry who were, and are, more than capable of taking up the slack!

 

2 hours ago, Bonafide said:

Presumably, coal wagons worked into marshalling yards, with an arrangement for guards to access a suitable amount.

 

 

Hmm, not a certain sort of thing to be presumptive about.  It varied, a lot, from yard to yard.  At places like Radyr, where Johnny Chopsticks managed the kindling, there was plenty of coal about anyway; I'm sure Stationmaster Mike will be able to illuminate us on the nittygritty of supplying brake vans.  As the preparation here was so relibaly thorough and meticulously carried out, I actually had very little knowledge of or connection with the details.   Brake vans tended to congregate towards the middle area of the long through sidings, either for main line jobs going out via Waterhall or for the various Valleys trips going north out of the yard, so a supply of coal must have been available handy to that area, I suppose.

 

Margam was very much the other end of the scale, a perfect storm of poor preparation not alleviated in the slightest by the fact that the shunters' cabins were electrically heated, this being a modern yard, so it wasn't as if you could dip into their coal bunker.  It very much depended on the place itself.   At Long Dyke, there was a heap of coal behind the buffer stops of the outer roads where trains were made up, much deprviated by the locals who pinched it for their domestic use, but there always seemed to be enough for us.  Mike has posted a while back about a local, and somewhat dodgy, dealer who was responsible for supplying this ISTR.  You borrowed a bucket to collect it in and bring it to your van, chucking said bucket overboard as the van passed the shunters' cabin on the way out, which happened at quite a few places.

 

Which seques neatly into another variable issue, the 'tip'.  When you boarded the van, usually when it was already moving, you exchanged handsignals with the driver who would be looking back to make sure you were aboard (well, most of the time anyway, some didn't give a...), using the newspaper you'd brought to stop the draughts and light the fire to aid his visibility of the event from perhaps 60 wagons away in mist and rain; this was done by white Bardics at night, and the driver would either return the signal or give you an acknowledgement on the rear horn, and then open her up to start building a bit of speed.  Sounds staightforward enough, doesn't it, but at places where the line ran around a right hand curvature, for example leaving Cadoxton in the up direction, you might have to run a good distance before there was a line of sight between you and the driver to be able to do this with a long train, leaving Biglis cutting about a mile away in this case.  Less of a problem if a secondman was aboard, as he can look out of the other side and exchange tips with you.  Some loops were problematic in this regard as well, Pontrilas on the Hereford Road and Grange Court on the Gloucester in the up direction come to mind; Bathampton Jc if you were heading for Westbury was another, as was Bristol East Depot going towards Dr Day's.

 

Coming back to van supplies, kindling wood was the other essential, and not everywhere had a Johnny Chopsticks.  If there was none on the van, you could usually scratch around on the ground for enough to get you going, but of course in bad weather this would be wet and harder to light.  Trick here was to use some of the lamp oil to soak the wood and the newspaper bundles, which would then burn hot enough to dry the sticks (some of which helped by being oil-soaked) and then you were away.  Once you'd got a decent glow on the underside of the coal, you could relax, but a bit of skill and knack was needed; it wasn't the same as lighting a fire at home.  I will now introduce you to the Waterhall problem...

 

We had several jobs involving signing on duty in the early or mid afternoon and secondmanning the loco to Radyr Quarry for a train heading up line, a Corby or Scunthorpe coal, or Kingswinford Coke hoppers, class 8s mostly.  As I've said, the fire would be immaculately laid in the stove ready for you, all you'd have to do would be to set a match to it, it was not much harder than flicking a light switch.  You'd do this once the tips had been exchanged and the train was powering away from the yard starting the half-mile or so climb to Waterhall summit.  As it picked up speed, which it did not do quickly, the stove pipe began to pull on the fire, and you would very quickly feel a bit of warmth from it, all very encouraging especially on a cold or damp winter day.

 

But...

 

The first MAS signal the driver encounters after the semaphore starter as soon as he left the yard (a splitter controlling the Llandaff Loop line over the river bridge to Llandaff, on the road bridge over Radyr Cheyne lane, will be a yellow.  Of course, he'd shut off power, ready to stop at the next signal, just past the summit at Waterhall, which would be at red.  This is because of the aforemetioned single track bottleneck of Penarth North Curve, behind Canton shed complex.  All about timing; by this time of the afternoon the evening rush hour was starting to build up, and dmus had to be got off the carriage shed into service across Cardiff West junctions.  In veiw of this, the panel liked to keep the single track North Curve clear for down trains coming off the main line and heading for Radyr via Waterhall, and you would be in a queue waiting for a path through the bottleneck.   You might if you are lucky get past this first signal with it showing a green aspect, but you can bank on the next one being a yellow.  Off Radyr Quarry 15.50, clear Cardiff East 18.30.

 

Say goodbye to the pull from the stove pipe and the draw on your lovely new fire, which has just burned through it's kindling between Radyr Quarry and Waterhall but the coal hasn't caught properly yet.  Any you might have more than an hour of this creeping from signal to signal before you got a decent run to pull the fire into life.  Cue much blowing and attempts to get the coal to catch properly with waved newspapers, not necessarily guaranteed to succeed.  It was sometimes better to wait until the train had negotiated the North Curve bottleneck and was on it's way up the relief to Newport before attempting to relight the fire...  You learned fairly quickly that a reserve of kindling deserved a place in your satchel as well as the other essentials!

 

The stoves were unpredictable as well, and I never really fathomed out the reason for this; they were all the same shape and size.  You could clean the pipe easily enough if you thought it was blocked with soot, just give it a decent whack with the brake stick, that'll bring the lot down and you can clean it out, but some drew better than others.  One with a good draw would give you a healthy fire quickly and with little trouble even if you were stationary and it was a flat calm day, but you'd encounter stoves that had difficulty at 60mph into a howling gale headwind, pipe and grate cleaned and good coal; there was no sense to it.  This was South Wales, there was no such thing as bad coal, but we sometimes had to break up big lumps, which would be a dusty procedure and produce a lot of slack.  Slack was best kept for banking the fire while you were in a loop, but had to be used carefully or you'd smother it; I preferred to slow things down a bit by opening the door, despite the effect on my night vision.

 

Once the train was a'rolling*, though, they drew like the little blast furnaces the shape resembled, red, orange, or yellow hot.  If you had an LNER van, distinguished from the BR standard by it's shorter footboards, these had a different pattern stove, square and bigger, with a top opening as well as the flap door.  These would keep lit in almost any conditions, were much better for cooking and relied less on pipe draw, but you couldn't get them glowing like the little LMS/standard stoves!

 

 

*Now, that Rock Island Line train, she move 'long on down the line a li'l, she build'n a little steam, build'n a little speed, an' that driver, he talk back to the depot agent, with his whistle, an' he say, 'I fooled ya, I fooled ya, I got pig iron, I got pig iron, I got aaaaaalllll pig iron'.  Well, the Rock Island Line she's a might good road, well the Rock Island Line it's the road to ride, well the...

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by The Johnster

[Michael Hodgson]

On 26/03/2023 at 18:02, The Johnster said:

Presumably Blaenant was a 'wet' pit, as many in that area were.  What do you prefer, dust or mould, both will wreck your lungs...

 

When I was a student I had a paper-pushing summer job in Newport Dock Street with HM Collector of Taxes for several posh Tax Districts in the West End of London.  The lifts always had wheezing middle-aged men who had spent their lives at the coal face, as we shared the building with an office where doctors assessed their pneumoconiosis compensation claims.  Most of them probably wouldn't have managed the stairs without stopping part way up.

 

My grandfather who had worked underground in Northumberland all his life died ("of Bronchitis" according to the death certificate, as was the usual diagnosis at the time) having lived for just 1 year past normal retirement age.  It was about 30 years later that my mum unexpectedly got a nominal sum of about £100 as compensation, the culmination of years of diligent agitation by trade unions.

[Philou]

@John Besley and for those that may have found the maps in .doc format a bit 'heavy' especially on opening, here they all are up to last night's effort in .pdf.

 

I shan't have time tonight (at least don't I'll have time) to do the maps to accompany @The Johnster's latest episode as even I don't know all the locations mentioned!

 

Back to business:

 

Johnster's Cardiff 01.pdf

Johnster's Cardiff 02.pdf

Johnster's Cardiff 03.pdf

Johnster's Cardiff 04.pdf

Johnsters Cardiff 05.pdf

Johnster's Cardiff 06.pdf

Johnster's Cardiff 07.pdf

Johnster's Route Learning01.pdf

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

Johnster's Cardiff 06.pdf Johnster's Route Learning01.pdf

 

Edit: I might have been a bit quick in uploading the last two above - but they've arrived.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Philou

[Philou]

Hello chaps,

 

I found a bit of time AND how to cut parts of maps so to as to reduce their size. Without further ado, here is a set in a .pdf format only as the .doc equivalent is over 7Mb!!:

 

Johnsters Route Learning 02.pdf

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Philou said:

I shan't have time tonight (at least don't I'll have time) to do the maps to accompany @The Johnster's latest episode as even I don't know all the locations mentioned!

 

 

Which locations don't you know, Philou?  Pretty sure you know Pontrilas!  Long Dyke fools even people who live within sight of it, it's a very old Cardiff name for the section of the sea wall that once upon a time ran between the Rhymni River and the Taff along the foreshore, long ago dug up to build the West and East Docks, spoil from which was tipped on the foreshore so as to eventually enclose the Roath Dock, and spoil from that built up the foreshore to allow construction of the Queen Alexandra.  The shoreline has moved maybe half a mile on average from the original seawall southeastwards out into the estuary, a process still continuing as land reclamation is ongoing along Rover Way.   The southeastern edge of Cardiff Tidal Sidings was the actual foreshore line when those sidings were built (1890s?); the esturary is now nearly half a mile away.  In railway terms, Long Dyke is the marshalling yard between Tyndall Street and the SWML, other side of the SWML from Newtown Goods, in the Y between the SWML and the docks branch at that point, and I'll confess to never having heard of it by that name prior to my railway career.  It seems to have survived only in railway usage, and is no doubt being forgotten even there now!

 

The Seawall that remains, protecting the levels between the Rhymni and Ebbw Rivers, was built by the Abbot of Tewksbury Abbey in the 13th century, as a major landowner in the area, on the remains of sea defences probably built in Roman times.  Roath Parish Church, over the other side of Newport Road from me and dedicated to St Margaret of Antioch who was eaten by a dragon which miraculously spat her out unharmed, was a daughter church of this abbey.  The current Victorian building replicates the cruciform footprint of the original church on the site, the form of which is typical of dark-age churches, and suggests that there may have been a church here well before the 13th century, and quite a big one for those days!

 

Biglis cutting?  Biglis Junction, really, the junction east of Cadoxton between the Barry Railway's Cogan Branch (their main line went up to Pontypridd and Trehafod via Wenvoe Tunnel) and the TVR extension of their Penarth Branch though Sully.  Kingswinford was a steelworks in the West Midlands, took coke in the big LMS-style hoppers from Radyr (originating at Nantgarw Coke Ovens) and Llantrisant (originating from Beddau Coke Ovens).  Not sure where it was exactly myself, never went there, we worked the trains to Gloucester for relief.  Grange Court was once the junction between the South Wales Railway and the Gloucester-Hereford line, about five miles or so from Gloucester.  There was a sawmill there with a number of self-propelled steam cranes which always fascinated me.  Bathampton Jc, again, up and down loops, on the original GWML east of Bath, between Bath and the western entrance to Box Tunnel.  This is where the Westbury road branches away to the south of the GWML through Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge, Wilts.

 

Can't imagine you don't know Waterhall, the junction of the 'rusty railway' that ran to Creigiau and the TVR network north and east of Llantrisant, just under the Pwllmelin Road bridge west of Rookwood Hospital .  It had rusted away completly by my day, but there was a timber yard built on the site of the actual junction.  Just to the south of it was Waterhall Secondary School, now Cantonian High, where I used to wave at teenage schoolgirls from my brake van, not all of my thoughts being quite as pure as they should have been, but then again, neither were theirs, probably...

Edited March 27, 2023 by The Johnster

[br2975]

17 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Mmmmmm ...... my favourite. SA (Skull Attack) is not bad either, but the Bitter I find too bitter to my tastes.

.

Having worked as a barman in the late lamented and infamous  "Bulldog"  during my 6th Form years ( allegedly the inspiration for Jurassic Park ) - I have never touched 'Dark' since - always 'Light' (Bitter) or 'S.A.' 

.

Now, I'll settle for a "Reverend James"

[Philou]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Which locations don't you know, Philou?

 

Well! See, I beat you to it - the ones I'm not sure about would be over Bri'sle way, but with your clues I will do a map later covering the Bristol - Bath area.

 

Pontrilas? Pffff ....... doing a model of Pontrilas i'n I (under Dymented if anyone wants a look - much angst and very much WiP)? Modelling it with the track layout post-1940 but buildings prior to 1914 as they're more interesting. Rule 1 applies!

 

More tonight,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[br2975]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

Can't imagine you don't know Waterhall, the junction of the 'rusty railway' that ran to Creigiau and the TVR network north and east of Llantrisant, just under the Pwllmelin Road bridge west of Rookwood Hospital .  It had rusted away completly by my day, but there was a timber yard built on the site of the actual junction.  Just to the south of it was Waterhall Secondary School, now Cantonian High, where I used to wave at teenage schoolgirls from my brake van, not all of my thoughts being quite as pure as they should have been, but then again, neither were theirs, probably...

.

Correctly known as the "Llantrisant No.1 Railway" which ran from Waterhall Junction to Common Branch Junction serving mileage sidings at Pwllmelin, Crofft-y-genau, Pant-y-gored et al, together with Creigiau Quarry.

.

The timber yard was NOT a timber yard, and was NOT built on the site of the junction.

The premises had their own private siding, which led off the branch and Pwllmelin Siding, and  were known as  "The Cymric Trading Co." who specialised in the purchase, hire and resale of railway and mining equipment.

In later years (15 years plus after the branch closed) the premises then became a builders supply yard, run by a Mr. Patreanne.

"The Cymric"  was our playground, where we would join together sections of Jubilee track amd ride in mine drams long before Indiana Jones made it fashionable.

.

I took my very first railway photograph at Waterhall Junction.

.

Waterhall School was a good mile away to the west of Waterhall Junction - this being my alma mater,  and opposite which I lived, and from our front room window (not posh enough to have a lounge)  I watched the daily perambulations of a Radyr 34xx tank propelling to, and drawing back from Creigiau Quarry.

The 'No.1' railway, or 'rusty line' as we knew it was a field and a half away from Waterhall School, so the girls are unlikely to have seen a passing Johnster from the playground, especially as the branch closed long before The Johnster started on the railway.

.

Methinks The Johnster is confused by the former Canton High School for Girls, and Canton High School for Boys which combined in 1967 to form Cantonian High School (where I finished my education)  and which bounded the radyr Quarry - P.C.N. line between the modern day fairwater and Waungron Park stations; and which combined school also absorbed Waterhall as its' Forms 1 & 2, but the latter is now a Welsh medium establishment.

[br2975]

19 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Kingswinford was a steelworks in the West Midlands, took coke in the big LMS-style hoppers from Radyr (originating at Nantgarw Coke Ovens) and Llantrisant (originating from Beddau Coke Ovens).  Not sure where it was exactly myself, never went there, we worked the trains to Gloucester for relief. 

.

The coke sent from Llantrisant originated at either

(i) Coed Ely - on the former GWR Ely Valley Branch, or

(ii) Cwm, Llantwit (not to be confused with Cwm,Ebbw Vale);

and was foundry coke.

.

The foundry coke was not destined for a 'steel works' at Kingswinford, but for Messrs Lunt, Comley & Pitt at Pensnett; from where it was distributed as required to the innumerable smoke belching foundries of 'The Black Country' 

[The Johnster]

22 minutes ago, br2975 said:

 

Methinks The Johnster is confused by the former Canton High School for Girls, and Canton High School for Boys which combined in 1967 to form Cantonian High School (where I finished my education)  and which bounded the radyr Quarry - P.C.N. line between the modern day fairwater and Waungron Park stations; and which combined school also absorbed Waterhall as its' Forms 1 & 2, but the latter is now a Welsh medium establishment

 

Youthinks probably quite correctly; high school girls have always been a source of confusion for me, and there were boys in the yard as well, though I didn't wave at those (they didn't wave back at me either; the girls did).

 

Cymric Trading; yes, that rings a bell, in big white letters on a black tin roof!  Don't recall the private siding, though; that said, it must in fairness be pointed out that my failure to recollect something is by no means an indication of it's non-existence...

 

I assumed Pensnett was a steelworks, because most of the customers for coke were steelworks. but this is clearly incorrect.

[Philou]

So you Mr Johnster, were the one turning the head of my sister! By gad sir, if I had a horse, I'd whip you with it! - er - or something of that ilk.

 

(Nah, my sisters went to Heathfield House and Bishop Hannon - both long gone).

 

Map of Cardiff and immediate surrounds on its way soon.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[F-UnitMad]

12 minutes ago, Philou said:

(Nah, my sisters went to Heathfield House and Bishop Hannon - both long gone).

Which?? Sisters or schools??!!! 🤷‍♂️😱🤦‍♂️

[Philou]

25 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Which?? Sisters or schools??!!!

 

I actually have three sisters :). But the schools are no longer there - huge re-organisation years ago. Heathfield House became St David's College and was moved to the Cyncoed area and Bishop Hannon was in Fairwater (away from Mr Johnster but not very far) and just disappeared and is part of a housing estate.

 

Normal service will be resumed soon - sorry for digressing, but there'll be a bit of a diversion on the next map - so you've been warned!