Confessions of a Canton goods guard

[Philou]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

First time I have ever seen or heard "posh" and "Cardiff" mentioned together, I'd always thought it to be the ultimate oxymoron!

 

Oh gosh, you don't know Cardiff then. For very posh there was always Cyncoed with very large houses overlooking Roath Park Lake and then Llandaff (City) as opposed to Llandaff North, Penylan and the environs of Roath Park Lake wasn't to be sniffed at either. Then there's the area around Llandaff Fields which was always posh-ish until it became 'bed-sit land' and then has become ultra-expensive over the last 15 years or so - no bed-sits. On the perimeter it was Lisvane (an extension northwards of Cyncoed) and Radyr (Roald Dahl was born there). Whitchurch, Rhiwbina and Heath Park were always 'classy'.

 

At one time, in the mid 19th century/start of the 20th century, THE place to be was Tiger Bay, as it was where all the shipping merchants had their big houses close to the docks, but they moved out to the Llandaff Fields area.

 

BTW, do you know where 'posh' comes from? In times gone past when the professor had reason to say 'dammit, Carruthers, we're British' and Britain had an Empire upon which the sun never set, a lot of people travelled by ship to and from these shores to India and those that could afford it always travelled Port Out, Starboard Home, so as to avoid the worst of the sun in the southern climes - ie 'going posh'.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Northroader]

I would hazard a guess that the vans look like a  made up as a set,  neat and tidy, and could be functioning as a fitted head, not actually carrying anything. The banana train traffic from Geests at Barry had gone down the pan around then, so we “converted” some at Cathays, knocking 6” nails in the floor, then filling the inside with about six inches of wet concrete.

[Danemouth]

1 hour ago, Philou said:

 

Oh gosh, you don't know Cardiff then. For very posh there was always Cyncoed with very large houses overlooking Roath Park Lake and then Llandaff (City) as opposed to Llandaff North, Penylan and the environs of Roath Park Lake wasn't to be sniffed at either. Then there's the area around Llandaff Fields which was always posh-ish until it became 'bed-sit land' and then has become ultra-expensive over the last 15 years or so - no bed-sits. On the perimeter it was Lisvane (an extension northwards of Cyncoed) and Radyr (Roald Dahl was born there). Whitchurch, Rhiwbina and Heath Park were always 'classy'.

 

At one time, in the mid 19th century/start of the 20th century, THE place to be was Tiger Bay, as it was where all the shipping merchants had their big houses close to the docks, but they moved out to the Llandaff Fields area.

 

BTW, do you know where 'posh' comes from? In times gone past when the professor had reason to say 'dammit, Carruthers, we're British' and Britain had an Empire upon which the sun never set, a lot of people travelled by ship to and from these shores to India and those that could afford it always travelled Port Out, Starboard Home, so as to avoid the worst of the sun in the southern climes - ie 'going posh'.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Thanks Phillip,

 

I live in Rhiwbina! and of course @Happy Hippo was brought up here - no didn't know him, we've only been here 25 years. 😀😀😀

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

 

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

I would hazard a guess that the vans look like a  made up as a set,  neat and tidy, and could be functioning as a fitted head, not actually carrying anything. The banana train traffic from Geests at Barry had gone down the pan around then, so we “converted” some at Cathays, knocking 6” nails in the floor, then filling the inside with about six inches of wet concrete.

Quite a few of the vans seem to have vertical white stripes on the side, suggesting they might be another South Waliam staple, the Shocvan.

[Philou]

Hello Johnster followers,

 

As it's raining and I love maps (can't you tell?) so here's one from an earlier episode showing the east-west limits of the tales so far. I'm sure you all know where Shrewsbury and the other towns named, are. I've also permitted myself (and only because @The Johnster mentioned them) to show geographically, the context of his modelling world - Porthcawl to Cwmdimbath via Tondu.

 

Johnster's Cardiff 06.doc

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Edited March 19, 2023 by Philou
No map attached!

[The Johnster]

Excellent stuff Phillipe; thank you for this noble effort.  For tracing the route of the Cwmdimbath Branch, I would suggest the NLS OS, which shows the tramroad formation on which it is based curving away from the Blackmill-Hendreforgan line just west of Glynogwr, still there as a footpath.  This led to a small water powered forge, marked as a ruin on the OS, and my pub is 'The Forge' in honour of it.  It probably ceased production in the early 1800s as industrialiastion took on it's role down at Blackmill and Tondu, only a couple of miles away. 

 

The OS, normally very reliable, does not for some reason show Dimbath Deep Navigation nos 1 or 2, or the village, or the mail order warehouse at Glynogwr.  I cannot imagine why this inaccuracy has occurred.  It's a real railway, serving a real colliery and mining village, only small and in the 50s...

 

OS road atlas will show most of my adventures, and I may give you all co-ordinates for some of the more remote locations to help you find them.  Awre Crossing, orignally Awre Jc, the border between Newport and Gloucester Panel Box territory and the edge of Cardiff Area, was between Lydney and Gloucester about 4 or 5 miles up from Lydney.  Follow the line up from Lydney, past the scenic riverbank section and away from the river, and the level crossing is marked by a red X.  Follow the line further up, through Blakeney, and you will eventually come to Grange Court, a loop which will appear in some episodes. 

 

Cardiff Area encompassed the rest of Southern Wales including the stubs of the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth line and branches to dairies, the Central Wales line as far as Pantyfynnon IIRC, North & West as far as Shelwick Jc, Awre Crossing, and the bottom of the Severn Tunnel.

[Philou]

For those not familiar with Shelwick junction, it's north of Hereford on the North-West line (Newport - Shrewsbury) and forms the junction with the Ledbury - Worcester line. Of course, I knew that as I lived in Ledbury for a while (no, I didn't know, but should have - hangs head in shame).

[Philou]

Ok, I can take a hint ;). Here, in all its glory is the valley of Cwm Dimbath, a short distance northeast of Blackmill and Tondu. This map has obviously not been updated in years as it doesn't show the coalmine, nor the rail link - in fact it must pre-date the tramway too!

 

Johnster's Cardiff 07.doc

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Northroader]

The northern limit of the Cardiff Div was Marsh Farm Junction Down distant , on past Craven Arms.

[br2975]

Returning to Ferry Road - a place I frequented many times over the years 1970 - 1972 whilst in the employ of Cardiff City Council; as one of Cardiff's two refuse tips were located at Ferry Road, the other at Ipswich Road on the east side of the city.

.

During this time, there were several small companies located along Ferry Road, including (from the north end, near York Place)

Wales Gas Board - Grangetown Gas Works, their P.S.A. terminated in January, 1975

Dufay Paint

South Wales Paper Co.

Bill Way & Co. Ltd.            Motor vehicle dismantlers. ( where I got a rear sub-frame for my Mini - for free )

Wagon Repairs Ltd. - their P.S.A. had been terminated in 1968.

Western Metal Co. Ltd.    Scrap metal merchants, their P.S.A. lasted until 1979, their siding until 1988..

British Car Auctions

Taff Wagon Engineering. Permanent way contractors.

Limmer & Trinidad.           Asphalt manufacturers.

Shell Mex & B.P. -              their P.S.A. terminated in 1969, and all sidings past Taff Wagon Co. were taken out of use in 1971.

A.C.Beresford & Sons.       Licenced horse slaughterers.

Howard Oils.                      Fuel oil distributors.

Frank Platt.                        Haulage contractor.

A.G.John.                            Scrap metal merchant.

Mobil Oil Co. Ltd.              Oil merchants.

Walter Grenville & Co.      Structural engineers.

Uniroyal.                             Tyre distributors.

South Wales Warehouses Ltd. - Victoria Wharf & warehouses.

Cardiff Caravans.               Caravan hire.

John Ford & Sons.             Scrap metal merchants.

Express Welding Co.

Crow Oil Co. Ltd.

Glamorgan Oil Services Ltd. (Esso distributors).

Esso Petroleum Co.

 

The companies in BOLD survived to be allox a TOPS code.

.

.

As for 'The Red House' - no one ever referred to it as 'The Penarth Railway Hotel' it was rarely, if ever visited by South Wales Police officers, as Ferry Road (then) fell within the jurisdiction of the British Transport Police, who were ever quick to point that out to their South Wales counterparts.

.

The pub was on the foreshore, and the gent's "dubs" (ancient Cardiff term for 'bogs' or toilet) were outside.

At high tides, the inspection cover in the gents woukld lift, and the whole facility would flood to several inches with salt water diluted urine.

.

With the smell from the knacker's yard, and the state of the roads, they were welcome to it.

.

During the 1980s, the policing responsibilty of the area changed hands, with SWP taking primacy - and the main issue was dealing with 'travellers' who regularly set up camp in the area - requiring novel policing tactics not taught in police training schools, to 'assist' them in moving on.

.

One of the last licensees of 'The Red House' was the mother of a schoolfriend, and his daughter and mine were good friends.

As a result I would occasionally pay visits to the premises to ensure 'permitted hours' were being rigourosuly observed, and no other licensing laws breached.

On one such visit an Inspector from my station 'happened upon us' sampling the hospitality - but, as he was a member of the RCTS, and a Class 50 fanatic - the matter was dealt with 'in house' - in 'The Red House' to be pedantic !,

 

[br2975]

6 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Oh gosh, you don't know Cardiff then. For very posh there was always Cyncoed with very large houses overlooking Roath Park Lake and then Llandaff (City) as opposed to Llandaff North, Penylan and the environs of Roath Park Lake wasn't to be sniffed at either. Then there's the area around Llandaff Fields which was always posh-ish until it became 'bed-sit land' and then has become ultra-expensive over the last 15 years or so - no bed-sits. On the perimeter it was Lisvane (an extension northwards of Cyncoed) and Radyr (Roald Dahl was born there). Whitchurch, Rhiwbina and Heath Park were always 'classy'.

 

.

Having arrived on this mortal coil, in Ely, then moving later to a brand new council flat in Fairwater.................everywhere else in Cardiff was posh to me !

[br2975]

On 17/03/2023 at 22:56, The Johnster said:

  His daughter, Lady Charlotte Guest, translated the Welsh folk legends of the Maginogion into English.

 

.

More correctly - Mabinogi or Mabinogion - I did a thesis on it, for my 'A' Levels.

[br2975]

On 18/03/2023 at 17:47, The Johnster said:

.  To the right of the frame is the bulk of Ninian Park Stadium, where Brian Rolley doesn't go to watch Cardiff City because they don't come and see him when he's bad.

 

.

The more likely reason he ( I ) doesn't go to Ninian Park to watch Cardiff City anymore, is because they haven't played there for the last 14 years.

.

[Metr0Land]

6 hours ago, Philou said:

 

 

 

BTW, do you know where 'posh' comes from? In times gone past when the professor had reason to say 'dammit, Carruthers, we're British' and Britain had an Empire upon which the sun never set, a lot of people travelled by ship to and from these shores to India and those that could afford it always travelled Port Out, Starboard Home, so as to avoid the worst of the sun in the southern climes - ie 'going posh'.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

This version tends to have become discredited of late:

https://interestingliterature.com/2021/01/posh-word-origins-etymology/

 

Warning: could lead to thread drift......

[br2975]

On 17/03/2023 at 22:56, The Johnster said:

  A new steelworks was planned at East Moors in Cardiff, along with the promotion of a new dock to serve it, the Roath Dock, but capitalising this massive new works would need amalgamating with the Keen and Nettlefold companies.  Amalgamations of this sort were common for heavy industries in the early part of the 20th century as economies of scale were sought and capital raised.

 

The new works was a prominent feature of the southeastern Cardiff skyline for many years, closing in 1977.  The molten slag from the blast furnaces was take by rail the half-mile or so to the foreshore and tipped for land reclamation, and it was certainly impressive as a spectator sport.  But the East Moors plant in Cardiff was always known locally as 'The Dowlais', a nod to it's origins.  Railway interest was provided by a flyunder beneath the running line at the Roath Dock Iron Ore wharves, which required double heading until GKN bought a Beyer-Garratt industrial.  One of their 16" Hunslets, 'Jessie', was for many years after the closure kept at Splott Park as a feature of a playground, but eventually found it's way to the Dean Forest Railway where it has been restored to working condition.

.

When built, and opened as a replacement for the 'Dowlais' works near Merthyr, the new integrated plant in Cardiff was officially known as "The NEW Dowlais Works"

.

Now, the original works name was pronounced correctly, as "Dow - Lice"

But, Cardiffians have a habit of b*stardising Welsh names, and the Cardiff plant's name was always pronounced as "Dow-luss" no "Dow-lice" and the 'NEW' was never used.

This name remained, as mentioned, until closure in 1978 - which did little for failing reputation of the then Prime Minister, James Callaghan, in whose Cardiff South East constituency the works were located.

[Johann Marsbar]

37 minutes ago, br2975 said:

Returning to Ferry Road - a place I frequented many times over the years 1970 - 1972 whilst in the employ of Cardiff City Council; as one of Cardiff's two refuse tips were located at Ferry Road, the other at Ipswich Road on the east side of the city.

.

During this time, there were several small companies located along Ferry Road, including (from the north end, near York Place)

Wales Gas Board - Grangetown Gas Works, their P.S.A. terminated in January, 1975

Dufay Paint

South Wales Paper Co.

Bill Way & Co. Ltd.            Motor vehicle dismantlers. ( where I got a rear sub-frame for my Mini - for free )

Wagon Repairs Ltd. - their P.S.A. had been terminated in 1968.

Western Metal Co. Ltd.    Scrap metal merchants, their P.S.A. lasted until 1979, their siding until 1988..

British Car Auctions

Taff Wagon Engineering. Permanent way contractors.

Limmer & Trinidad.           Asphalt manufacturers.

Shell Mex & B.P. -              their P.S.A. terminated in 1969, and all sidings past Taff Wagon Co. were taken out of use in 1971.

A.C.Beresford & Sons.       Licenced horse slaughterers.

Howard Oils.                      Fuel oil distributors.

Frank Platt.                        Haulage contractor.

A.G.John.                            Scrap metal merchant.

Mobil Oil Co. Ltd.              Oil merchants.

Walter Grenville & Co.      Structural engineers.

Uniroyal.                             Tyre distributors.

South Wales Warehouses Ltd. - Victoria Wharf & warehouses.

Cardiff Caravans.               Caravan hire.

John Ford & Sons.             Scrap metal merchants.

Express Welding Co.

Crow Oil Co. Ltd.

Glamorgan Oil Services Ltd. (Esso distributors).

Esso Petroleum Co.

 

The companies in BOLD survived to be allox a TOPS code.

.

.

As for 'The Red House' - no one ever referred to it as 'The Penarth Railway Hotel' it was rarely, if ever visited by South Wales Police officers, as Ferry Road (then) fell within the jurisdiction of the British Transport Police, who were ever quick to point that out to their South Wales counterparts.

.

The pub was on the foreshore, and the gent's "dubs" (ancient Cardiff term for 'bogs' or toilet) were outside.

At high tides, the inspection cover in the gents woukld lift, and the whole facility would flood to several inches with salt water diluted urine.

.

With the smell from the knacker's yard, and the state of the roads, they were welcome to it.

.

During the 1980s, the policing responsibilty of the area changed hands, with SWP taking primacy - and the main issue was dealing with 'travellers' who regularly set up camp in the area - requiring novel policing tactics not taught in police training schools, to 'assist' them in moving on.

.

One of the last licensees of 'The Red House' was the mother of a schoolfriend, and his daughter and mine were good friends.

As a result I would occasionally pay visits to the premises to ensure 'permitted hours' were being rigourosuly observed, and no other licensing laws breached.

On one such visit an Inspector from my station 'happened upon us' sampling the hospitality - but, as he was a member of the RCTS, and a Class 50 fanatic - the matter was dealt with 'in house' - in 'The Red House' to be pedantic !,

 

 

I take it Ways had another scrapyard somewhere else in Cardiff Docks as I went on a minibus trip to South Wales in 1983 and whilst playing "Hunt the 08"  in another part of the docks we found a selection of Cardiff trolleybuses still sitting in a scrapyard there, which, from memory was also owned by Ways..........

 

 

There were an interesting selection of 1950's era coaches there as well, but it didn't seem the place to loiter long due to the free range guard dogs!

 

[br2975]

3 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

I take it Ways had another scrapyard somewhere else in Cardiff Docks as I went on a minibus trip to South Wales in 1983 and whilst playing "Hunt the 08"  in another part of the docks we found a selection of Cardiff trolleybuses still sitting in a scrapyard there, which, from memory was also owned by Ways..........

 

 

There were an interesting selection of 1950's era coaches there as well, but it didn't seem the place to loiter long due to the free range guard dogs!

 

.

Yes, Bill Way also had a yard on the east arm of the Bute East Dock, at the 'top' or north end of the dock.

.

The 'trollies' were a feature of the location for many years.

.

The yard is now beneath a dual carriageway.

.

Bill Way was a distinctive character, he had a terrible bend in his one forearm - obviously a bad break that was never reset properly.

Edited March 19, 2023 by br2975

[br2975]

7 hours ago, Northroader said:

I would hazard a guess that the vans look like a  made up as a set,  neat and tidy, and could be functioning as a fitted head, not actually carrying anything. The banana train traffic from Geests at Barry had gone down the pan around then, so we “converted” some at Cathays, knocking 6” nails in the floor, then filling the inside with about six inches of wet concrete.

.

At the time, Shocvans were still in regular use on tinplate traffic.

.

The (then) recent freight reorganisation in South Wales decreed all empty 'Shocvans' returning to South Wales would be directed to Briton Ferry, from where they were distributed as traffic demanded either Trostre or Velindre, or from BSC tinplate warehouses e.g. Morriston.

.

The 'Tadpoles' (ex Banana vans, for fitted head) were mainly used locally from Llantrisant on iron ore and lime/limestone trains to East Moors to allow the trains of unfitted hoppers  to run as Class 8 - but, at Pengam the train reversed, the 'Tadpoles' at the front, stayed put, and were then on the rear, and the train ran Class 9 to Tidal, and East Moors.

[br2975]

21 hours ago, sf315 said:

In Helvarras’s second pic above it seems to me that the visible vans maybe gunpowder vans. Anyone else reckon the same. 

 

.

Yes, they are GPV's.

.

The main destination for GPVs in South Wales was Llantrisant as ICI had magazines in Brofiscin Quarry from where the explosives were distributed, mainly to the NCB, but also quarries etc.

.

The GPVs came from Penrhyndeudraeth, via Coton Hill and Severn Tunnel Jcn from whence they were usually tripped by the early morning Llantrisant - STJ and return freight.

.

The GPVs in the photo would be empty, judging by the drirection they are heading.

.

Identifying the working is difficult, as 9C94 was a Radyr - Cwmbargoed out and back job, which normally wouldn't pass Ninian Park Halt.

.

The working 'could' have come from Llantrisant along the SWML, then come off the SWML at Leckwith Jcn. (out of shot to the left) and could now be going to run round at Penarth Curve North  thence head to Radyr (unlikely) or negotiate the back of Canton Depot to Radyr Branch Jcn then head for Radyr or STJ.

.

The switching of locos between diagrams hereabouts occasionally makes positively identifying workings difficult.

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, br2975 said:

.

More correctly - Mabinogi or Mabinogion - I did a thesis on it, for my 'A' Levels.

 

Yeah, I mangled that one up good and proper, begging everybody's spelling pardon.

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, br2975 said:

.

The more likely reason he ( I ) doesn't go to Ninian Park to watch Cardiff City anymore, is because they haven't played there for the last 14 years.

.

 

I was under the impression they didn't play much before that either, on account of the other teams rarely letting them anywhere near the ball...

[br2975]

6 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

I was under the impression they didn't play much before that either, on account of the other teams rarely letting them anywhere near the ball...

.

My apologies John - it appears I have underestimated your abilities all these years........, I didn't realise you were also an expert on Association Football.

[The Johnster]

Didn't think you'd let that one ride, Brian! 

 

During my short and not particularly illustrious British Telecom career, I worked with a bloke who was a lifelong and dedicated fan of Newort County; this was in the 80s and a time when they were doing not very well even by thier standards.  I had to admire his stoicism and persistence, a true fan.  I have no idea why he stuck it out, as it caused him no end of grief and sorrow, but then, he was very happily married and into each life a little rain must fall...

 

Oh, and if you estimate that I've had any sort of abilities whatsoever all these years, you've probably overestimated not underestimated.

Edited March 20, 2023 by The Johnster

[Halvarras]

4 hours ago, br2975 said:

.

Yes, they are GPV's.

.

The main destination for GPVs in South Wales was Llantrisant as ICI had magazines in Brofiscin Quarry from where the explosives were distributed, mainly to the NCB, but also quarries etc.

.

The GPVs came from Penrhyndeudraeth, via Coton Hill and Severn Tunnel Jcn from whence they were usually tripped by the early morning Llantrisant - STJ and return freight.

.

The GPVs in the photo would be empty, judging by the drirection they are heading.

.

Identifying the working is difficult, as 9C94 was a Radyr - Cwmbargoed out and back job, which normally wouldn't pass Ninian Park Halt.

.

The working 'could' have come from Llantrisant along the SWML, then come off the SWML at Leckwith Jcn. (out of shot to the left) and could now be going to run round at Penarth Curve North  thence head to Radyr (unlikely) or negotiate the back of Canton Depot to Radyr Branch Jcn then head for Radyr or STJ.

.

The switching of locos between diagrams hereabouts occasionally makes positively identifying workings difficult.

 

All of these comments on my two photos are most gratifying - I'm so glad I posted them, even if they were a bit rubbish 😬! 

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, br2975 said:

.

At the time, Shocvans were still in regular use on tinplate traffic.

.

The (then) recent freight reorganisation in South Wales decreed all empty 'Shocvans' returning to South Wales would be directed to Briton Ferry, from where they were distributed as traffic demanded either Trostre or Velindre, or from BSC tinplate warehouses e.g. Morriston.

.

The 'Tadpoles' (ex Banana vans, for fitted head) were mainly used locally from Llantrisant on iron ore and lime/limestone trains to East Moors to allow the trains of unfitted hoppers  to run as Class 8 - but, at Pengam the train reversed, the 'Tadpoles' at the front, stayed put, and were then on the rear, and the train ran Class 9 to Tidal, and East Moors.

 

That is as I remember things, Shocvans to Briton Ferry for Metal Box traffic but used in normal general goods traffic as well.  The Banana Vans used as fitted heads on Llanharan-Tidal iron ore trains were inherited from Geest Banana's operation at Barry Docks.  I once worked a special of imported iron ore off the quayside at Barry Docks consisting of a fitted head of these and a raft of 35mph hoppers, heading for Corby or Scunthorpe, can't recall which now, with a Hymek, as far as Gloucester where we were relieved.  I believe this was the only time I ever worked over the goods roads at Cogan.  A 'Mek could have presumably worked through to Corby with Banbury men, but Scunthorpe might have been a bit too much to ask!