New Book on The Peaks

[johnofwessex]

Two comments I might make about it having read it.

 

Firstly it appears that the class had issues with availability, but how did they compare with other similar loco's (40 & 47) both in the UK & abroad.

 

Then performance, both how well did they do and again how did they compare first with the steam loco's they replaced and with other diesels in the same power range (Compared with Deltics the book suggests credibly)

 

Finally some sort of a summary, good bad or indifferent, bearing in mind that they were the first UK (European?) Diesels in that power range 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Finally allowed to open Simon's book on the Peaks yesterday; was really looking forward to it. 

Definitely worth getting, but one or two reservations that I've noted in my review on Amazon. Hope it's a fair review...

[robertcwp]

I have recently completed reading this book and it is a very worthwhile addition to the library. It was particularly interesting to have an insight into the discussions that went on in BR and with supplies, in particular Sulzer, as the locos were being designed and as issues arose with production and whilst in service. As a result, I tracked down a copy of the book on the 47s that Simon Lilley co-authored and have now made a start on that one.

 

I agree with Peter K that the book would have benefitted from a better proof read but I think such things are a luxury nowadays as most books have lots of errors, many of which are not the fault of the author. There are many from other publishers that are much worse than this one.

 

One thing I did not find a clear explanation of was why the additional grille under the main grille was added to (it appears) all 46s but only some 45s and what was its function. I do wonder if it was part of the refurbishment specification which Brush stuck to for the 46s and Derby did not for the 45s. 

 

I was intrigued by the statement that Class 46s up to D148 (or thereabouts) did not have yellow panels when new. I don't recall having seen any photos of 46s in that style apart from the first few - D138 and D139 for example. 

 

One error I noted (page 55) relates to the cut-off when new between 46s with split centre headcodes and those with single piece centre headcodes without the middle divide. Other books get this wrong at a basic level by asserting that all 46s had the latter style from new. I believe the first one with the single centre panel was D174. There is a published, pre-refurbishment shot of D174 with single headcode and one of D170 with split centre box (Diesel Heyday - Sulzer Diesels in the 1960s, p27). I have a photo in my own collection of D171 with a split centre headcode (the number is clear on the full-size scan):

 

D171_Retford by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[stovepipe]

Yes my understanding too was that D174 was the first one built with the one-piece centre headcode.... and also as 46037 the last in service with a domino headcode panel, some four years after the others had been plated over (or withdrawn).

 

On the SYP question D138-148 were delivered before the SYP edict was made. The Peak Diaries livery guide says D138-144 definitely were delivered in all-over green, and also probably 145 and possibly 146-148 too. https://peakdieselarchive.co.uk/first-to-last-liveries

It seems the yellow panels were quickly painted on in 1962, leaving only a short window for photographers.

 

 

[slilley]

On 26/12/2023 at 17:39, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Finally allowed to open Simon's book on the Peaks yesterday; was really looking forward to it. 

Definitely worth getting, but one or two reservations that I've noted in my review on Amazon. Hope it's a fair review...

Hi Peter

 

Fair comments and apologies for the typos. It was checked several times, but obviously some slipped through.  I know I asked for 2 captions to be swapped and this clearly did not happen before the book went to print. As for your comment about Arkle andthe original names, I have seen this quoted but as nothing apeared in the archives it was difficult to say definitively quite what happened.

 

I understand your comment about critical analysis, and there is plenty in there about availability and their miles per casualty, they were not the best diesel class by any stretch. Analysis can lead to writer's voicing their own opinions and no one is going to be interested in my opinion on one class or another. My prefered option is to present the facts and let the reader draw their own conclusions. That said with hindsight I could have added some comparative data of similar classes say the Class 40s or 47s to help readers make up their minds and it is something should I write anything else in future that I will bear in mind.

 

Simon

[johnofwessex]

1 hour ago, slilley said:

Hi Peter............................

 

 That said with hindsight I could have added some comparative data of similar classes say the Class 40s or 47s to help readers make up their minds and it is something should I write anything else in future that I will bear in mind.

 

Simon

 

While its not an exact comparison what about other abroad of the same power output/duties/era after all they were the most powerful diesels ever built when introduced.

[robertcwp]

11 hours ago, slilley said:

I understand your comment about critical analysis, and there is plenty in there about availability and their miles per casualty, they were not the best diesel class by any stretch. Analysis can lead to writer's voicing their own opinions and no one is going to be interested in my opinion on one class or another. My prefered option is to present the facts and let the reader draw their own conclusions. That said with hindsight I could have added some comparative data of similar classes say the Class 40s or 47s to help readers make up their minds and it is something should I write anything else in future that I will bear in mind.

 

I agree with keeping it factual and leaving the reader to draw conclusions. Comparative information between Peaks, 47s and 40s would be interesting, as would comparisons with Westerns and Warships.

[mikeh]

On 01/01/2024 at 00:16, robertcwp said:

I agree with keeping it factual and leaving the reader to draw conclusions. Comparative information between Peaks, 47s and 40s would be interesting, as would comparisons with Westerns and Warships.

 

I managed to get Simon's book onto my Christmas list. Have so far only read the first few chapters but can already say it is as good as I expected it would be.

Wish more authors would do as much research - the sources are out there!

 

Picking up Robert's point, there is a chapter in my book "Changing Engines" on reliability of the then new diesels, and the Peak's did not fare at all well in the early days. Although the book is concerned with the changeover in the West Midlands, the chapter has availability tables for all LMR Types, and also some interesting statistics on steam substituations. Certainly opened my eyes when I first found the files.

 

If anybody wants to follow that up the LNWR Society now have a sales page on their website - www.lnwrs.org.uk/shop

 

Mike

[slilley]

On 31/12/2023 at 13:50, johnofwessex said:

 

While its not an exact comparison what about other abroad of the same power output/duties/era after all they were the most powerful diesels ever built when introduced.

 I could add data of similar power BR locos, but as regards overseas locomotives obtaining that data could be much more difficult.

 

Simon