Reinvigorating model shops: AI suggestions.

[Talltim]

7 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

As a nutty enthusiast, I like a model shop old enough to have built up a level of detritus - old kits and stuff - that I can dig through looking for gems*. Shiny RTR is lovely, but that's not what gets me coming back. However, I am weird.

 

*gems for me. Probably rubbish for you.

Sheffield Transport Models? 😉

[Darius43]

Victors on Pentonville Road was like that and The Aviation Hobby Shop in West Drayton is like that  - although not model railways.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[TinTracks]

15 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

As a nutty enthusiast, I like a model shop old enough to have built up a level of detritus - old kits and stuff - that I can dig through looking for gems*. Shiny RTR is lovely, but that's not what gets me coming back. However, I am weird.

 

*gems for me. Probably rubbish for you.

Agreed. Me too!

I always looked forwards to monthly visits to C&G models in Darlington. Chocka block with stuff/tat stashed all over. I Bought sold and traded loads of items there over the years. A very sad day when George passed away. For a short while, under new ownership, the shop morphed into a sort of ''boutique'' model railway shop but closed down after what seemed to be a very short while.

 To this day I've not found a shop to beat it. ( mind you I don't get out much)😉

      Regards, Rich

 

[tomparryharry]

11 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And yet UK Modelshops report an increase in shop numbers this year.

You could well be correct, Phil. Is it post-Covid?

[Phil Parker]

3 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

You could well be correct, Phil. Is it post-Covid?

 

It was in the first newsletter this year. 

[BachelorBoy]

11 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

As a nutty enthusiast, I like a model shop old enough to have built up a level of detritus - old kits and stuff - that I can dig through looking for gems*. Shiny RTR is lovely, but that's not what gets me coming back. However, I am weird.

 

*gems for me. Probably rubbish for you.

That's a fair point.

 

I really hate Apple shops vs traditional computer shops because there's not enough possibility for fossicking

 

 

 

[tomparryharry]

Thinking on this subject, it could well be that it's all our own fault. Well, not exactly....

 

back in the past, when 'Gramps were a lad', there was only 2 manufacturers of RTR, and that was Hornby, and Triang. Triang-Hornby came along later. It was either that, or Airfix kits. Then we had Minic Motorways, or Lone-Star o0o-lectric. The   model railway shop kept a minimum stock of these 'staples' , and to us, it was fantastic. It kept people like me enthralled  with the latest releases, and like it or not, Triang was the 'only game in town' if you wanted RTR. 

 

When Mainline came along, it was a case of shuffling the 'new' retail stock in with the existing, by now, Hornby stock. That's double of the product lines, and double of the shelf space. The underlying problem was that this 'pending sales' stock had to be paid for by the retailer. Still, we're  all doing OK., aren't we? Peco was in there, somewhere, along with Graham Farish, et al. Oh, and the crown jewels, such as K's & Wills kits. They're all on the shelves, somewhere.. 

 

Then came Bachmann, who blew a lot of competition out of the water. To be fair to Bachmann, some of it is very good indeed, but! More shelf space; more invoices; you get the idea... Airfix had their own competition, from companies like Revell,; Tamiya, etc.  More space? Well, something has got to give. Salesmen could be quite  aggressive, you know; minimum stock orders & such. Dead stock is a mill stone around the neck of any retailer, and if you're not paying rent, rates, business insurance, electricity, in the first instance, then you're not opening the front door.

 

Our continuing desire for better quality models creates problems for retailers: After all, who would buy a Triang pannier, when a Bachmann is on display just a metre away? Our continuing  research is also heavily influencing  our modelling choices.  A classic example would be the Heljan 'night owl'. Ordinarily, I'd like to buy one, but the nearest they travelled to my locale is nearly 40 miles away, and Kings also.  Our expectations have outstripped the capacity to satisfy our newer, personal, niche market. If I ran a hypothetical 'Night Owl', what do I run behind it?  Eighty-odd Bachmann 16-tonners, which 'sort of' look ok, as long as you're up a mountain, raining, and it's 'twenty past dark'.

 

I'd suggest that the newer producers have it slightly easier than the earlier, established producers. The production runs are smaller for instance. You almost certainly pay more, but you get almost exactly what you want. A win-win, I'd say.

 

If it's a model railway shop, I'd suggest the retailer buys just one of everything; possibly two. The first is for the customer to see it, as a pristine, boxed example. The second is an unboxed example, running on a demonstration layout so the potential client can see the goods. With the supply chain now in vogue, the retailer can order the item at point of sale, and it's on your doorstep in a couple of days. Reduced overheads for the shop owner; less stock being held; reduced just about everything. The store can use the increased floor space to provide chairs, restricted so spouses can get a cup of tea and a bun. If 'er indoors' likes the experience, it can only help.

 

 

 

 

[whart57]

On 18/04/2023 at 07:42, tomparryharry said:

If it's a model railway shop, I'd suggest the retailer buys just one of everything; possibly two. The first is for the customer to see it, as a pristine, boxed example. The second is an unboxed example, running on a demonstration layout so the potential client can see the goods. With the supply chain now in vogue, the retailer can order the item at point of sale, and it's on your doorstep in a couple of days. Reduced overheads for the shop owner; less stock being held; reduced just about everything. The store can use the increased floor space to provide chairs, restricted so spouses can get a cup of tea and a bun. If 'er indoors' likes the experience, it can only help.

 

 

And fail just as camera and book shops did around the turn of the century. It's all very well buying stock in to show and demonstrate but your friendly retailer does the work and the customer then goes home, logs onto the computer and buys from Amazon or one of the big box shifters

 

Elsewhere on this site people are bitterly criticising Hornby's sales strategy for TT-120. We may not like it - I don't - but Simon Kohler has devised a go to market plan that reflects current shopping habits. There are two sorts of model shops that will survive - the very big and the very small. I don't know Rails or Hattons, never been there, but I do know Gaugemaster. Shopping there is a pleasure. It has a car park and a railway station (OK not solely for Gaugemaster customers obviously, but Ford station is right by the door), and inside it is light, airy and well spaced out. As for the very small, my advice for local councils wanting to revive town centres, is to take an old department store they can't get a tenant for, and create an indoor market of microshops. No vaping outlets, the only mobile phone stores are ones owned and run by a lone techie, and encourage model shops, specialised haberdasheries, crystal peddling types and other New Age woo-woo stuff, to take 10 or 20 sq metre units which open on a full or part-time basis. Get Costa or Starbucks - or an independent - to open a coffee shop, and on the hard to let top floor, offer space to model railway clubs, art clubs, pottery schools and others of that ilk at a peppercorn rent. The fun needs to come back into shopping if town centres are to survive.

[tomparryharry]

I can't argue against that; very true. 

 

However, tenancies & leases need to be taken into account when going down this road. But! The prospect of sub-divided shops do indeed work. A notable example is Lord & Butler, who started out with a smaller shop in the Pump House, Cardiff. Some years later, to migrate just down the road to larger premises. Power to their elbow, I say. 

 

30 miles away, In Blaenavon, is the model railway shop for the Pontypool & Blaenavon. It started out as a tourist information centre, funded in part by a small local grant, with model railways as a sideline. Over the years, the model railway aspect continues to grow. Once again, Kudos.

 

Being a society member at Blaenavon gets you a discount as well, so it's a bit of a win-win. Added to that, you can see your prospective purchase in the flesh before you buy. 

 

Shameless plug over.... 

[Legend]

My little nephew , aged 10, has just been entranced into the world of Warhammer .  Apparently Warhammer give demonstration or talks at Scout groups . That's how it got introduced to him .He's hooked ! Very clever marketing I think !

[Type 2]

2 minutes ago, Legend said:

My little nephew , aged 10, has just been entranced into the world of Warhammer .  Apparently Warhammer give demonstration or talks at Scout groups . That's how it got introduced to him .He's hooked ! Very clever marketing I think !

I was in a Warhammer shop a couple of weeks ago for the first time.  There were giving demonstrations to a group of teen boys and girls on how to apply paints, using shading and tints etc.  All very hands on and very informative from what I could hear.

 

Sadly, you go in to some other hobby shops and you are treated like an inconvenience.

[Michael Hodgson]

5 minutes ago, Type 2 said:

Sadly, you go in to some other hobby shops and you are treated like an inconvenience.

Perhaps that's because you are.  If you're not a teenager, you're not their target demographic.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

When I first read this thread, I was wondering who Al was...🙄

[Type 2]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Perhaps that's because you are.  If you're not a teenager, you're not their target demographic.

I wouldn't say plastic kit or model railway shops target teenagers

 

And Warhammer may have a large teen following, but it is in not their target audience either

[whart57]

18 hours ago, Legend said:

My little nephew , aged 10, has just been entranced into the world of Warhammer .  Apparently Warhammer give demonstration or talks at Scout groups . That's how it got introduced to him .He's hooked ! Very clever marketing I think !

 

About fifteen years ago I was working on a project in Kansas. While I was there I thought I'd visit the two model shops listed in the online Yellow Pages. Not just out of curiosity, I was using Kadee couplings and they were tricky to get hold of in the UK at the time. Two very different experiences. One, which has an address of a hundred and something street, was a friendly place, carried a healthy amount of stock and had an 8'x4' layout in the middle of the shop which wasn't particularly brilliant but was available to try things out on or show off Walthers kits on. The other, closer in, looked to be on the way out. Half empty shelves, surly owner, nothing to entice you to buy anything. The most interesting thing about it was that a major railway line ran down the street outside. I had to wait for a long train of box cars to pass before I could cross the street to where I'd parked the car.

[BachelorBoy]

21 hours ago, Type 2 said:

I was in a Warhammer shop a couple of weeks ago for the first time.  There were giving demonstrations to a group of teen boys and girls on how to apply paints, using shading and tints etc.  All very hands on and very informative from what I could hear.

 

 

Hmm ... perhaps Hornby could open a high street shop purveying Bassett-Lowke steampunk paraphernalia, overseen by Simon Kohler in a top hat.

[friscopete]

Alcohol licence?

[TinTracks]

1 hour ago, friscopete said:

Alcohol licence?

 Now that's a good idea. The only problem, in my case, would be after staggering home plastered, having bought armfulls of stuff I didn't want, how to explain myself to Mrs TinTracks!!😄

 Cheers. Rich

[RJS1977]

On 21/04/2023 at 13:41, tomparryharry said:

I can't argue against that; very true. 

 

However, tenancies & leases need to be taken into account when going down this road. But! The prospect of sub-divided shops do indeed work. A notable example is Lord & Butler, who started out with a smaller shop in the Pump House, Cardiff. Some years later, to migrate just down the road to larger premises. Power to their elbow, I say. 

 

30 miles away, In Blaenavon, is the model railway shop for the Pontypool & Blaenavon. It started out as a tourist information centre, funded in part by a small local grant, with model railways as a sideline. Over the years, the model railway aspect continues to grow. Once again, Kudos.

 

Being a society member at Blaenavon gets you a discount as well, so it's a bit of a win-win. Added to that, you can see your prospective purchase in the flesh before you buy. 

 

Shameless plug over.... 

 

Heritage railway model shops can have several commercial advantages over the more traditional shops:

* If the shop is owned by the railway, there's no rent to pay (though of course profits would go to the railway)

* Staff may well be volunteers, cutting staffing costs

* It's in a place that railway enthusiasts already go to.

 

I still think it's a shame that Hornby/Bachmann don't support heritage railways more by producing a more typical "heritage railway" set, particularly at the budget end - a couple of Mark 1s and a Pannier Tank/Jinty/ex-Dapol Austerity/ex-Dapol Terrier/Railroad 08.

I think I've suggested before that one way of marketing would be to step back slightly from the pre-defined train sets, to one where the heritage railway/retailer can choose a loco, couple of coaches, and maybe some scenic items from Hornby's stock, and Hornby puts them all in a gift box with an oval of track and a controller.

[2E Sub Shed]

6 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

I think I've suggested before that one way of marketing would be to step back slightly from the pre-defined train sets, to one where the heritage railway/retailer can choose a loco, couple of coaches, and maybe some scenic items from Hornby's stock, and Hornby puts them all in a gift box with an oval of track and a controller.

Once the impulse purchase on a day out is made at a Heritage Railway, (and how many have that level of discretionary spending power ?), how likely is someone to travel back to the railway to buy extra items ? Much more likely to look on-line, a search for "Hornby" will show the Hornby direct sales site, than try to look up "local model shop" which again if they did may not be "local".

Edited April 23, 2023 by 2E Sub Shed
Missed word.

[Matt]

As I’ve watched our city’s high street gradually become derelict, it is something I’ve pondered a lot about what retail needs to do differently to survive on the high st in the internet age. My own ponderings keep coming back to the retailers need to provide an experience to draw the customer in.

 

Some retailers do this already to some extent - I once spent 10x more than I intended in Next when a lovely personal shopper helped me pick clothes that suited me, John Lewis’s expert product advice in store has secured them most of our electrical goods sales for past 30 yrs, Waterstones draws me in with being able to browse books and have a coffee.

 

In the main I would say model shops do this to some extent too.  Many of those I visit have helpful staff who can provide advice and being able to see things in the flesh, test before buy, and even just browse things like scenic products or accessories to find what you didn’t know you wanted/needed is way simpler than internet.

 

I wonder if this is why model shops have been perhaps bucking the trend vs some other retail sectors?

 

Further success could be really focussing on what else can be done to make more of an experience and provide what the internet can’t. And I don’t mean providing sofas or free coffee which could be abused.  Maybe more how can the retailer help their customer go further - have the confidence to try new techniques or products, buy complimentary stock to build up a collection etc.  Some shops are doing this already in my experience and it draws me back.

 

[BachelorBoy]

8 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Heritage railway model shops can have several commercial advantages over the more traditional shops:

* If the shop is owned by the railway, there's no rent to pay (though of course profits would go to the railway)

* Staff may well be volunteers, cutting staffing costs

* It's in a place that railway enthusiasts already go to.

 

 

Existing model shops might feel that the competition is therefore unfair.

 

 

[Type 2]

52 minutes ago, Matt said:

As I’ve watched our city’s high street gradually become derelict, it is something I’ve pondered a lot about what retail needs to do differently to survive on the high st in the internet age. My own ponderings keep coming back to the retailers need to provide an experience to draw the customer in.

 

Some retailers do this already to some extent - I once spent 10x more than I intended in Next when a lovely personal shopper helped me pick clothes that suited me, John Lewis’s expert product advice in store has secured them most of our electrical goods sales for past 30 yrs, Waterstones draws me in with being able to browse books and have a coffee.

 

In the main I would say model shops do this to some extent too.  Many of those I visit have helpful staff who can provide advice and being able to see things in the flesh, test before buy, and even just browse things like scenic products or accessories to find what you didn’t know you wanted/needed is way simpler than internet.

 

I wonder if this is why model shops have been perhaps bucking the trend vs some other retail sectors?

 

Further success could be really focussing on what else can be done to make more of an experience and provide what the internet can’t. And I don’t mean providing sofas or free coffee which could be abused.  Maybe more how can the retailer help their customer go further - have the confidence to try new techniques or products, buy complimentary stock to build up a collection etc.  Some shops are doing this already in my experience and it draws me back.

 

I fully agree with you in my added bold, although I know this can take time away from other customers, and also money out the till, but I think it would be repaid by the customers buying more product. 

 

In a couple of plastic model kit shops I've been in, much like the Warhammer shop I was in,  there are demo tables where you can have a go at new methods, or even the basics of gluing plastic together.  A lot of people doubt their own abilities and don't want to waste money on something they might make a mess of, and that is understandable.  A simple demo table with cheap old stock kits that the customer can try the basics can build a lot of confidence in someone.  Maybe even charge a pound or two to access the demo tables?

 

I was a life long user of enamel paints, tried using acrylics but always made a mess, it was a visit to a plastic kit shop when I asked when out of stock enamels would be back in stock I was invited to try out the alternative acrylics - and manufacturers - at their demo table.  A little bit of guidance and trial and error gave the me the confidence to leave that shop with an armful of acrylics, plus a couple of kits that I had no intention of buying in the first place, and I've been a repeat customer ever since.  I now very rarely use enamels, and my painting skills have improved dramatically.  I reckon I spend less on paints now too (even though I seem to have the complete MIG Ammo range!!!)

 

Model railway shops could use this approach - if they have the space, which I know a lot don't.  Some shops are very traditional, which we all like, we like the familiar feeling when we go in, knowing what to expect each time we visit, but I do think those shops need to modernise to try and capture some of the internet only shoppers.

 

I went a long time shopping for my model products online after most of the local shops closed down, however since I learned the new techniques I make a day of going to physical shops, even if they are some distance away, I'll arrange to meet a friend or 2 and visit together, get some lunch and have a nice day out.

 

Sadly the nearest model railway shop I have is over 50 miles from where I stay, and they sell Hornby and Dapol only with very few bits and pieces, so I only visit if in the area.  

[RJS1977]

4 hours ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

Once the impulse purchase on a day out is made at a Heritage Railway, (and how many have that level of discretionary spending power ?), how likely is someone to travel back to the railway to buy extra items ? Much more likely to look on-line, a search for "Hornby" will show the Hornby direct sales site, than try to look up "local model shop" which again if they did may not be "local".

 

That depends. Some railways already have established model shops, often selling top-of-the-range items, so that suggests that discretionary spending power is there. Sales from the Polar Express shop at Wallingford at Christmas (when families had already spent £35 per person on the experience) indicate that too. And although enthusiasts will often travel many miles to visit a particular heritage railway, there are also often a good number of local families who will visit a railway regularly because it's local, especially if it's one of the shorter lines, or offers partway fares. 

Back when my grandparents lived in Carnforth, Steamtown had a model shop which could be visited without paying the entry fee for the rest of the museum. My father and I often used to call in at the shop when visiting my grandparents (we did go to the museum from time to time but not as regularly). Indeed it was on one of those trips to the shop that I first saw Flying Scotsman (as she should look, resplendent in apple green, and without smoke deflectors) - and of course didn't have my camera with me!

[rob D2]

Model shops are often in the more marginalised areas of towns ( between the vape shop and the porn shop ) which doesn’t really entice you into the area but I guess the rent is cheap,

 

I’m not sure how model shops can be reinvigorated , other than by building a Time Machine back to 1985. The big issue I feel amongst all , is that 95% of stuff I can get on the internet cheaper . It’s literally just paint and solvents that I need  a retailer as the costs of posting dangerous goods are astronomical.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by rob D2