Ellis Clark Trains & Clark Railworks 4mm OO Quad Arts

[PaulG]

1 hour ago, Fredo said:

Hi, I have already pre-ordered the Quad Arts set. Do you know when set 85 was withdrawn?
thanks Fred

 

Not an answer, but these notes on the M&GN Society website may be of interest:

 

"The last Quad Sets were finally withdrawn from GN services on 1st April 1966 having been retained to cover as spares for BR Mk1 sets. These sets 67, 79 and 90 were transferred to Sheffield and worked local summer specials until their final withdrawal in September 1966.

 

Our set, no. 74, withdrawn early in 1966, was sent to A. King and Sons at Wymondham in Norfolk for scrapping. "

 

Paul

[Pint of Adnams]

On 21/12/2023 at 15:39, Fredo said:

Hi, I have already pre-ordered the Quad Arts set. Do you know when set 85 was withdrawn?
thanks Fred

 

It was condemned in period 13 of 1965, i.e. at the very end of that year. The accounting periods were of 4 weeks.

[31A]

9 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

 

It was condemned in period 13 of 1965, i.e. at the very end of that year. The accounting periods were of 4 weeks.

I’m not sure whether Railway Accounting Periods were the same then as they are now, but nowadays Period 13 would end on 31st March….

[Pint of Adnams]

1 minute ago, 31A said:

I’m not sure whether Railway Accounting Periods were the same then as they are now, but nowadays Period 13 would end on 31st March….

 

In which case the entry on the carriage record card would have read 13/66? Longworth translates this to (month) 12 of 1965.

[31A]

1 minute ago, Pint of Adnams said:

 

In which case the entry on the carriage record card would have read 13/66? Longworth translates this to (month) 12 of 1965.

Under the current system the 4-weekly accountancy period which ended on 31.03.66 would be described as Period 13/65, but as I say, I don’t know whether the Railway’s accounting year ended on 31st March in those days (as it does now) or on 31st December?  Not a thing I’d considered previously in connection with the Longworth books; I’d previously taken the months quoted in it to be months of the year - perhaps I’ve not come across one withdrawn in “Month” 13 before!

[Fishoutofwater]

In the 1960's BR accounting year was 1st Jan to 31st Dec. It changed to 1st April - 31st March in the 1980's sometime but do not recall actual year.

[Pint of Adnams]

22 minutes ago, Fishoutofwater said:

In the 1960's BR accounting year was 1st Jan to 31st Dec. It changed to 1st April - 31st March in the 1980's sometime but do not recall actual year.

 

Thank you.

 

Having exchanged information with 31A, I have confirmed that the LNER revised recording and reconciliation of stock from years ending March to years ending December early on, the accounting year matching the calendar year and no doubt a result of the legal formation of the Grouped companies wef 1st January 1923. It seems that BR continued that practice, probably for the same reason. I am reminded too that Mr Geddes Transport Act required the submission of masses of operating and other statistics on an annual (calendar year) basis or even more frequently.

 

LNER Locomotive Committee November 1923: This total programme was intended to cover the period until 31 March 1924. On acceptance of the programme, the CGM intimated that he proposed in future to bring a programme to each November Board meeting, to cover the twelve months ending 31 March in the following year but one. (This led to joint meetings of the Locomotive and Traffic Committees, which discussed the programmes in detail and made recommendations to the Board. However, complications emerged in that whereas a programme would end on 31 March, the financial year ended on 31 December. This affected the presentation of statistics, as the Chief Accountant's annual figures were for the year to 31 December.)

[31A]

32 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

 

Thank you.

 

Having exchanged information with 31A, I have confirmed that the LNER revised recording and reconciliation of stock from years ending March to years ending December early on, the accounting year matching the calendar year and no doubt a result of the legal formation of the Grouped companies wef 1st January 1923. It seems that BR continued that practice, probably for the same reason. I am reminded too that Mr Geddes Transport Act required the submission of masses of operating and other statistics on an annual (calendar year) basis or even more frequently.

 

LNER Locomotive Committee November 1923: This total programme was intended to cover the period until 31 March 1924. On acceptance of the programme, the CGM intimated that he proposed in future to bring a programme to each November Board meeting, to cover the twelve months ending 31 March in the following year but one. (This led to joint meetings of the Locomotive and Traffic Committees, which discussed the programmes in detail and made recommendations to the Board. However, complications emerged in that whereas a programme would end on 31 March, the financial year ended on 31 December. This affected the presentation of statistics, as the Chief Accountant's annual figures were for the year to 31 December.)

Thank you for sorting that out, and sorry to have raised concerns unnecessarily.

 

1 hour ago, Fishoutofwater said:

In the 1960's BR accounting year was 1st Jan to 31st Dec. It changed to 1st April - 31st March in the 1980's sometime but do not recall actual year.

Thank you for that.  I must admit I didn’t realise it had changed that recently; my memory must be worse than I thought!  Apologies again …. !

 

 

[it's-er]

It wasn’t clear to me from the photos posted so far if these quad-arts have a rebated guards end, as many had, explained in this article by Steve Banks:

https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/355-lner-quadarts

 

But I saw the model in real life today at Model Rail Scotland and - superb - the guards end is rebated!  You can see it here. I had a great explanation from Ellis Clark of the working of the shared bogies of these coaches, and was impressed!

 

John S