Should I buy ECoS 50210 now, or wait...?

[Chamby]

I have decided to upgrade from my current GM Prodigy control system that I have been using for the last 8 years, and like the look of the ECoS system.  The current command centre, 50210, has now been around for six years and I would be reluctant to invest over £600 in something that could be superseded imminently.

 

I notice that an ECoS 50310 Cab Control system is now available in the US and Oz.  It is described on their website as the future of DCC Control (no doubt marketing hype), but it does beg the question as to whether the currently available 50210 is now old tech.

 

So, would you commit to a 50210 now, or wait for the next iteration?

[Ron Ron Ron]

The CabControl system has been available for several years already, in N America & Oz.

It has since had an internal upgrade.

It was due to go on sale in Europe last year, but release has been delayed until sometime later this year.

 

CabControl doesn’t replace the ECoS, the latter having greater functionality.

The MobileControl 2 handsets that the CabControl uses, can also be added to the ECoS to provide walk around control.

 

Most of things that can be done to improve on the ECoS, would be software related, so I don’t see it being replaced in the near future.

 

 

.

[MikeB]

I have an ECoS 50210 and am very pleased with it.  ESU provide firmware updates from time to time that can be downloaded and installed so there is virtually no risk of obsolecence.  It seems to me to be on a par with some other European systems and not stuck in the multiple menu mess of the pre-touchscreen US manufacturers.  Even if a new version came out in the next few years, the 50210 would still be years ahead of the rebadged MRC Gaugemaster offering.  The advantage of the 50310 is that it is a wireless handset and allows the user to move around.  The 50210 is a wired console that has the advantages of two active loco controls at any time compared to the one in the 50310, and a large screen that can be used as a panel to control points and signals etc.  Mobility can be added using the ECoS handset as mentioned by RonRonRon or the third party ECoSCab app on a mobile phone or tablet.

As with any DCC system the choice comes down to what the user wants, but I see no reason not to invest in a 50210.    

Edited May 7, 2023 by MikeB

[young37215]

As others have said, you would be wise to determine exactly what you want from a new controller before making any buying decision. I considered and disregarded the ECoS because all I wanted was a wireless controller with a rotary dial. With a seperate BUS for point and other servo control, I had no need for some of the ECoS functionality. What I wanted was an updated system similar to the Prodigy I had used for a number of years. Having researched what wanted I bought an ESU Cab Control system which I imported from the USA a few years ago. Despite some teething issues which were mostly of my creation, I have been delighted with Cab Control which I describe as an upgrade on the Prodigy. It also cost me little more than half of what the ECoS cost!

[Philou]

Well, this thread has just revived my interest in the ECoS. I have one, but unfortunately I got caught up in some cabling and it experienced a RUD and needs to go back to ESU for a repair. Whilst it was working, it was very easy to use once beyond the learning curve of course. Tons of on-line help if needed and there is also a thread within RMWeb.

 

I was curious to see how much it now costs - despite inflation and 10 years passing, you can buy it cheaper than I paid for it - under six hundred notes if you look carefully and from a reputable UK shop.

 

I may forego the repair and just buy new at that price!

 

Just my tuppence worth,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[GoingUnderground]

 

 

As an ECoS owner, I can confirm that it is a very capable piece of kit. Mine is the original colour screen model (50200) with a lower power output, but otherwise identical to the latest ECoS 2.1 (50210).

 

If you're thinking of an ECoS 2.1 (50210) or CabControl (50310/50311), be aware that the CabControl is not an ECoS without a screen or throttle knobs. The ECoS has functionaility that the CabControl doesn't, namely,

1. User defined loco icons (there are over 23,000 that you can download from the ESU website (I must own up, 16 of them are ones that I've created), or you can create your own and load them on to the ECoS yourself.

2. Shuttle train running.

3. Configuration menu for devices connected to the ECoSLink bus.

4. Remote control of the ECoS via a VNC Client from a laptop, tablet or smartphone. This is instead of an app, or it can be as well as an app and/or the Mobile Control II. N.B. It is remote control, not an additional throttle as you get with an app or the MCII.

5. ECoS is multiprotocol, DCC, Maerklin Motorola (MM), Maerklin mfx/msd, and Selectrix whilst CabControl is DCC only.

6. Loading Firmware updates, loco icons and backing up and restoring the user data/configuration is via an ethernet connection to your computer on an ECoS, sounds difficult, but it's not. On CabControl you have to use a USB stick for firmware upgrades and configuration back-up and restore, sounds easier, but I don't think it is as flexible and I'm not sure that it's quite as easy to keep backups of older configurations.

7. You can use the ECoS Detector, Detector Standard (if you have 3 rail track, or Detector RC with CabControl. However, it doesn't have a way to display occupancy unlike the ECoS which has it's onscreen track plan diagram, and you have to connect CabControl to a PC and use layout control software if you want to see what's where on your layout.

 

Also be aware that the Loconet socket on CabControl is still inactive. Whether it will ever be of any use is anyone's guess. 

 

If you're thinking of buying the CabControl and then upgrading later to an ECoS be aware that the only part of the CAbControl set that can be used with an ECoS is the MCII handset, but you can do that without any modification to the handset or the ECoS other than making sure that your ECoS is connected to your home WiFi router or to a Wireless Access Point, see the Mobile Control II user manual for more information on how to use it with an ECoS. However the CabControl ICU cannot be connected to the ECoS as a booster and would be redundant, at least under the current releases of the ECoS and CabControl ICU firmware, 4.2.10 and 4.2.8 respectively.

 

And one final point, the CabControl sold in N. America and Australia has the part number 50310, whilst the part number for the Europe/rest of the world version is 50311. As far as we can tell from the information that ESU has released to date, the only difference seems to be that the 50311 comes with a German and English language user manuals whilst the manual for 50310 is in English only.

 

I suggest that you download the ECoS user manual from their website, the manual is now 12 years old, but still covers the core functionality https://esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-systems/

 

Also look at the Tips & tricks pages which covers more recently added functionality https://www.esu.eu/en/support/tips-tricks/ECoS/

[njee20]

I had a Piko Smart Control, which uses the same handheld hardware as the Cab Control, and replaced it with an ECoS. 
 

I wouldn’t go back to the Smart Control any time soon, and certainly wouldn’t pay the ESU price tag for one. It’s like an old, slow, Android handset. Because that’s what it is. I can only hope the Cab Control is better. The battery life was rubbish, it was buggy.
 

I love my ECoS, but it does root you to one spot, although phone/tablet interface is easy.   

[Chamby]

Very many thanks to all above for the informative replies.  50210 it is, then.  I’ll have to hunt further for that UK retailer selling at under £600, assuming they have stock!

[Ouroborus]

£630 at Rails

[Ron Ron Ron]

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Digital/Digital+boxes/ESU-50210/gb/modell_279466.html
 

p&p  plus UK VAT to pay on top.

 

In stock, unlike at most UK retailers.

 

 

 

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[two tone green]

+1 for a happy very long term ECoS user. 
 

Also you have far more functionality in the ECoS over American based system, Digitrax, NCE etc. 

 

USA based systems it’s DCC how they want it to be. European, ESU for example it’s DCC how you want it to be. 

[Philou]

17 hours ago, Chamby said:

I’ll have to hunt further for that UK retailer selling at under £600, assuming they have stock!

 

Sorry @Chamby, I've just tried to hunt it down (not for myself I hasten to add, but I was very interested) again to check who was the retailer, but I haven't track him down, nor have I looked in detail and annoyingly, I didn't note it down yesterday. It was a name I recognised though and it was marked at that magic £599.99.

 

Good luck anyway,

 

Philip

[Bigskybirds]

I bought 3 for different layouts from Peter's Spares, they are in stock for £593.33.

[Philou]

Some kind soul whispered in my ear that there was a 'new' unused ECoSII being sold at a secondhand price at a retailer that I know. I rang this morning and the price was very advantageous - he was surprised that I knew! I have secured it as I suspect if I return my broken one back to ESU, the repair plus post and packing will cost more. I WILL get it repaired eventually as I shall have it as a spare. IF there is a way of running them in tandem - so much the better! Maybe @GoingUnderground may know?

 

Good luck to @Chamby , I'm sure you won't regret it.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[two tone green]

33 minutes ago, Philou said:

Some kind soul whispered in my ear that there was a 'new' unused ECoSII being sold at a secondhand price at a retailer that I know. I rang this morning and the price was very advantageous - he was surprised that I knew! I have secured it as I suspect if I return my broken one back to ESU, the repair plus post and packing will cost more. I WILL get it repaired eventually as I shall have it as a spare. IF there is a way of running them in tandem - so much the better! Maybe @GoingUnderground may know?

 

Good luck to @Chamby , I'm sure you won't regret it.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

You can’t have two ECoS connects via the ECoS link, only via the sniffer port. 

[GoingUnderground]

20 minutes ago, two tone green said:

You can’t have two ECoS connects via the ECoS link, only via the sniffer port. 

Spot on TTG.

 

Being able to link 2 ECoS so that you have 4 throttles and 2 boosters and share a common database is something that users have been asking ESU to introduce for as long as I've had an ECoS, which is now over 12 years. We're still waiting.

 

Using the sniffer port is the only way to use 2 together, and it does have its disadvantages, you have to set up the locos on both ECoS, or do a configuration backup on ECoS A and then restore that backup to ECoS B. And whichever ECoS is connected to the track must have a sniffer address for each loco. If you do the backup and restore trick then just make sure that before you do the backup and restore that you have set every loco's sniffer address to be the same as its DCC address.

 

Also the communication is one way only, So whilst the ECoS connected to the layout will accurately show the status of verything, the ECoS that is only connected to the other one's sniffer port will only show the correct status for locos routes, etc controlled using that ECoS. If you then decide to change the speed of a loco or set a route using the layout connected ECoS the sniffer connected ECoS will not show the new speed etc as there is no feedback to it via the sniffer port from the layout connected ECoS.

 

Never connect 2 ECoS to the same layout or you may well end up blowing up the output transistors on both of them.

 

Never connect the main track output of the layout connected ECoS to the sniffer port of the other ECoS - you will just create a data loop which may well lock up both machines.

[Bigskybirds]

One of the the ECoS 50210's I purchased still remains unused in the box after my layout upgrade got cancelled, perhaps one day I will find a use for it. I chose the ECoS to run my three rail and 2 rail on the same layout.

[Philou]

@GoingUnderground As things seem to have evolved since I bought the first ECoS, I see lots of talk regarding Bluetooth and mobile 'phones (latest Hornby/HM7000 seems to be the next 'thing'), is it possible to use Bluetooth and mobiles via the ECoS? The youngsters at the club all have their mobiles in hand and have dedicated wifi too, but they use Roco as their 'driver'.

 

I ask as my layout under development could have four operatives running it, hence my earlier question regarding two ECi in tandem.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Philou said:

@GoingUnderground As things seem to have evolved since I bought the first ECoS, I see lots of talk regarding Bluetooth and mobile 'phones (latest Hornby/HM7000 seems to be the next 'thing'), is it possible to use Bluetooth and mobiles via the ECoS? The youngsters at the club all have their mobiles in hand and have dedicated wifi too, but they use Roco as their 'driver'.

 

 

Bluetooth equipped decoders, such as the Hornby HM7000 range and SoundTraxx Blunami, can be used on any DCC system, with regular, through the tracks DCC.

That includes the ECoS.

The Bluetooth element isn't used in this mode of operation.

It's regular, straight DCC using the DCC system's throttles and user interface (in this case the ECoS).

No smartphones or tablets needed.

The Bluetooth decoders are after all, just regular DCC decoders, with Bluetooth capability added.

 

Moving to Bluetooth control....

You can use the Bluetooth mode of control, with Bluetooth equipped decoders, on a layout where the ECoS is providing the regular DCC power supply to the track.

The Bluetooth wireless control signals go directly from the smartphone (or tablet) to the decoder in the loco, with the decoder only obtaining its power supply from the DCC signal on the rails.

 

Simultaneously, the ECoS can be used to control any other non-bluetooth decoders via the regular DCC signal.

Bluetooth decoder locos being controlled via the smartphone/tablet and non-Bluetooth decoder locos being controlled via the ECoS.

 

Further to that, on some DCC systems (presently only those that use XpressNet), a Hornby Bluetooth dongle is available, that will allow the app on the phone/tablet, to also control non-Bluetooth decoders, by sending control signals via the dongle, into the host DCC system, which in turn will send DCC signals over the rails to those decoders, in the normal way.

i.e. everything controlled from the app on the phone/tablet, with the control commands sent to the locos either directly via Bluetooth, or via Bluetooth and the DCC system.

This isn't available for the ECoS (yet?).

 

Apart from Bluetooth....

As for the ECoS, there are apps available, that allow you to use a phone as an additional wireless handset with the ECoS.

This is using WiFi, not Bluetooth.

These have been available for years.

 

The optional ESU Mobile Control 2, wireless handset, runs the Android mobile phone OS with a tailor made ESU control app.

It's a cross between a smartphone, with its touchscreen and a regular handset with a control knob and some physical buttons.

Again, it uses WiFi and not Bluetooth.

 

 

.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[two tone green]

ECoS Cab is an excellent app and uses a similar interface on the screen of your phone or tablet in that you can see the images of the locos you have on your ECoS. 
 

It also has other functionality such as points plus block occupancy etc. 

 

 

[GoingUnderground]

For the ECoS there is also RTDrive which is an Android app. TouchCab for Apple smartphones used to be quite well known at one time, but I don't know whether it is still available.

 

To repeat what I said earlier, the ECoS does not have built-in WiFi. But it is easy to give it WiFi, either by connecting it to your home router via an ethernet cable, then users just connect to the home wifi and set up the app to use the ECoS's IP address, or attaching a Wireless Access Point to the ECoS's ethernet port and set up the app to connect to the ECoS's IP address.

 

It remains to be seen how widely adopted Hornby's proprietorial implementation of communicating with decoders via Bluetooth becomes. I believe that Soundtraxx also have something similar, again proprietorial, and as far as I know the Hornby abd Soundtraxx systems are incompatible as far as Bluetooth is concerned. Anyone know if they are compatible? 

 

The Hornby bluetooth dongle will not work with the ECoS as the ECoS uses ECoSLink to connect peripherals, and to a limited extent loconet using their L.Net Converter (loconet to ECoSLink) module, not Xpressnet and as far as I know there is no interface available to convert Xpressnet to ECoSLink.

 

ESU do not have a bluetooth interface module for the ECoS or come to that, for the CabControl. If they do introduce one there's the question of which proprietorial system do they use, Hornby or Soundtraxx. So on the basis of kit currently available forget about using bluetooth with ECoS.

[Philou]

22 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

This is using WiFi, not Bluetooth.

 

13 hours ago, two tone green said:

ECoS Cab is an excellent app

 

7 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

But it is easy to give it WiFi

 

Chaps,

 

Thank you for the clarification. Silly me, it had to be wifi as the club have set up their own specifically for use with their smartphones via the Roco.

 

I was interested in the possibility of using smartphones as additional handsets if and when the layout is completed and the members of the club could then come and have a thrash. They're very much into the electronic side of things (the club does cater for both DCC and DC) and I've been converted to DCC but know next to nothing except that I like what I have seen so far at the club. They operate locos under DCC but still use analogue for point and signal control, with automatic signal protection.

 

More food for thought.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Chamby]

My ECoS has arrived, though I’m still getting my head around setting it up... and installing somewhere to site it!  Ethernet crossover cables are now ordered, etc. And tomorrow I hope to see what user-designed UK loco images are already out there.  It certainly seems to be a very capable unit.

 

Re: using a phone handset control for driving loco’s, I hope to use my ‘old’ GM Prodigy unit with its WiFi attachment, plugged into the sniffer port.  One reason for upgrading now, was the knobs failing on the Prodigy handsets, but it still works fine through the phone and WiThrottle app.

[Nigelcliffe]

9 hours ago, Chamby said:

My ECoS has arrived, though I’m still getting my head around setting it up... and installing somewhere to site it!  Ethernet crossover cables are now ordered, etc. And tomorrow I hope to see what user-designed UK loco images are already out there.  It certainly seems to be a very capable unit.

 

Re: using a phone handset control for driving loco’s, I hope to use my ‘old’ GM Prodigy unit with its WiFi attachment, plugged into the sniffer port.  One reason for upgrading now, was the knobs failing on the Prodigy handsets, but it still works fine through the phone and WiThrottle app.

 

Fine if you see the old Prodigy as a usable handset.    But, my club recently sold a surplus Prodigy system on ebay and it fetched a surprisingly large amount of money - more than enough to buy several alternative handsets.   

 

 

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 07/05/2023 at 21:14, GoingUnderground said:

2. Shuttle train running.

This is what got me interested in the system after the dual control feature.

 

I tried using some of those diodes in a ring thing but couldn't get the locos to recognise the break in the track and whether I needed to power the track after the break if it was a dead end...  just became a whole day of wastage trying to get that to work.

 

Heard Horby Sapphire decoders have the shuttle feature built in.

It does and works pretty well but now the loco of choice isn't quite right!

 

The single element that put me off was that it's a base station rather than a hand hold one.  Not a complete "this means I won't buy this" - it's actually the system I plan to buy when I want to upgrade but it'll be more difficult to use it as a base station on this layout as I didn't build any where for it to live.