Scottish Green Diesels

[dexterph5]

I was curious about collecting some Scottish region BR green diesels for my 60's layout. I have only 2 diesels so far Bachmann class 08, and Bachmann class 37. Would these be appropriate? I've seen class 40s and class 17s in photos. Although I've heard the Heljan OO class 17 was a bad model I'd like your opinions on this matter too. 

 

Thanks in advance, Dexter

[PortlandStone]

Class 26 and at least some of class 27 were moved from the Eastern Region to the Scottish Region during the green diesel era. Heljan makes models.

 

[pH]

10 hours ago, dexterph5 said:

I was curious about collecting some Scottish region BR green diesels for my 60's layout. I have only 2 diesels so far Bachmann class 08, and Bachmann class 37. Would these be appropriate? I've seen class 40s and class 17s in photos.

Here’s a website that lets you search allocations by shed and by date (the ‘snapshot’ option). Pick a depot in the area you’re interested in and the month/year you want:

 

https://www.brdatabase.info/index.php

 

Remember that engines from English sheds also worked into the Scottish Region on a daily basis.

[Type 2]

10 hours ago, dexterph5 said:

I was curious about collecting some Scottish region BR green diesels for my 60's layout. I have only 2 diesels so far Bachmann class 08, and Bachmann class 37. Would these be appropriate? I've seen class 40s and class 17s in photos. Although I've heard the Heljan OO class 17 was a bad model I'd like your opinions on this matter too. 

 

Thanks in advance, Dexter

Classes 05/08/17/20/21/24/25/26/27/29/37/40/47/55 were regularly seen in Scotland during the 60's, dependent on the area.  There are all available RTR, there were other classes, notably shunters that aren't available rtr.

 

Class 37's weren't too common in Scotland in the 60's to the best of my knowledge, most light to medium work was undertaken by the type 2 range, and heavier by class 40's (very happy to be corrected)

 

The Heljan 17 did have motor problems when it was first released, though none of the 4 I have from the original batch are affected.  Later ones are perfectly fine.

[Michael Hodgson]

Class 55 also worked between Kings Cross and Edinburgh every day and is available RTR.

[pH]

1 hour ago, Type 2 said:

Classes 05/08/17/20/21/24/25/26/27/29/37/40/47/55 were regularly seen in Scotland during the 60's, dependent on the area. 
 

…

 

Class 37's weren't too common in Scotland in the 60's to the best of my knowledge, most light to medium work was undertaken by the type 2 range, and heavier by class 40's (very happy to be corrected)

Class 45s (Holbeck) and 46s (Gateshead) were also seen in the Scottish Region. The Holbeck engines were daily visitors on services between Leeds and Glasgow.

 

There were Class 37s allocated to Scottish sheds from the summer of 1966 onwards. Not many, but they were there.

[Wickham Green too]

Even Southern Region class 33s got into Scotland on the Cliffe-Uddingston cement workings.

[Legend]

Class 20/24/25/26/27 were all seen in green (and blue) in Scotland in the 60s 

 

Class 21 which was rebuilt into 29 also . These were seen on West Highland but also around Aberdeen

 

As others have pointed out class 40s were the main express loco , latterly supplemented by 47s especially on WCML  but you also had 45s , certainly on the GSWR line and I've even seen a 28 in one of the books I have on internal Scottish services around Stirling (probably filling in after coming up on a Condor freight service )

 

A really comprehensive book on the subject is "B.R. Diesel Traction in Scotland " by George C O'Hara ISBN978-0-9530821-2-4.   There's even a picture of a 31 in Morningside , Edinburgh, even though 31s not common in Scotland . Great book . 

 

37s were around . I well remember a picture somewhere in Fife showing a green 37 and I think the last J36 0-6-0 in 1967

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Legend

[Phil Bullock]

10 hours ago, PortlandStone said:

Class 26 and at least some of class 27 were moved from the Eastern Region to the Scottish Region during the green diesel era. Heljan makes models.

 

Class 26s from the Great Northern lines moved up to Scotland in the early 60s Along with the despised NBL type 2s … Class 21 … from Great Northern and Great Eastern Lines.

 

Class 27s from the (North) Eastern region moved to the Midlands in the mid 60s and went north to Scotland in the late 60s along with all the Midlands allocated Class 27s. Scottish class 20s and 25s came south in exchange.

 

3 hours ago, Type 2 said:

Classes 05/08/17/20/21/24/25/26/27/29/37/40/47/55 were regularly seen in Scotland during the 60's, dependent on the area.  There are all available RTR, there were other classes, notably shunters that aren't available rtr.

 

Class 37's weren't too common in Scotland in the 60's to the best of my knowledge, most light to medium work was undertaken by the type 2 range, and heavier by class 40's (very happy to be corrected)

 

The Heljan 17 did have motor problems when it was first released, though none of the 4 I have from the original batch are affected.  Later ones are perfectly fine.

 

IIRC in the late 60s Scotland had a batch of 15 Class 37s in the D684x - D685x series plus a few other random ones. Often to be found on oil trains working off Grangemouth .

 

9 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Even Southern Region class 33s got into Scotland on the Cliffe-Uddingston cement workings.

Didnt the SR locos come off at York? 
 

And not previously mentioned but Class 50s also appeared late 60s as far north as Perth but blue of course! 
 

HTH

 

Phil

[ScRSG]

34 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Even Southern Region class 33s got into Scotland on the Cliffe-Uddingston cement workings.

Not aware of any 33's reaching Uddingston, they came off at York to be replaced by a York class 40 ( became the only way to see a 50A class 40 in the West of Scotland) I used to wait until nearly dark on Uddingston station to see them.

 

[Legend]

13 minutes ago, ScRSG said:

Not aware of any 33's reaching Uddingston, they came off at York to be replaced by a York class 40 ( became the only way to see a 50A class 40 in the West of Scotland) I used to wait until nearly dark on Uddingston station to see them.

 

 

Yep reckon they changed traction at York . Never seen any pictures of 33s in Scotland 

[Wickham Green too]

Apologies - I thought I'd heard of the Cromptons working through on occasions. ☹️

[ScRSG]

6 hours ago, ScRSG said:

Not aware of any 33's reaching Uddingston, they came off at York to be replaced by a York class 40 ( became the only way to see a 50A class 40 in the West of Scotland) I used to wait until nearly dark on Uddingston station to see them.

 

And here is one, D350 (I think - Gratspool colour film and late i the day, sorry!) At Uddingston on it's way to be reversed at Newton.

Chas

 

[andyman7]

More to the point on Class 21s/29s is that once they were sent north very early in their career they were rarely if ever seen south of the border; they were true Scottish locos. 26s/27s were also Scottish for pretty much their entire careers bar the very earliest days. 

[The Pilotman]

I think it would be helpful if @dexterph5 specified where in Scotland and when in the 1960s, otherwise this could become a very long and potentially time-wasting thread.

[rogerzilla]

If you can get hold of the book "Green Diesel Days", it is organised by region and has colour photos of everything indigenous to that region.  26/27 is the type most associated with Scotland, although nothing was a "Class" anything then...BRCW Type 2 🙂

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, andyman7 said:

More to the point on Class 21s/29s is that once they were sent north very early in their career they were rarely if ever seen south of the border; they were true Scottish locos. 26s/27s were also Scottish for pretty much their entire careers bar the very earliest days. 

 

That is true, although following its engine transplant in 1963 D6123 made several trips as far south as Birmingham on mileage accumulation and general testing ('Condor' service to Aston from memory - I have further information in an issue of 'Classic Diesels & Electrics' magazine but would have to look it up.......)

[luckymucklebackit]

Couple of others available as models not yet mentioned are the LMS, 10000, 10001 and at least one of the SR diesels were seen at Glasgow on WCML expresses and DP2 visited Edinburgh.

 

Jim

[brushman47544]

10 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

IIRC in the late 60s Scotland had a batch of 15 Class 37s in the D684x - D685x series plus a few other random ones. Often to be found on oil trains working off Grangemouth .

That’s what I remember too. The Ian Allan Locoshed book 1975 edition has a photo of a 37 and 40 on the cover I think at Grangemouth.

Edited May 15, 2023 by brushman47544

[Phil Bullock]

4 hours ago, andyman7 said:

 26s yes but not so solid with 27s where 45 of 69 locos spent 1/3 of their life off the SCR… a few for 3 years at Thornaby before joining their class members on the LMR until the end of the 60s by which time they were all in Scotland. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Phil Bullock
Correction of data

[Halvarras]

5 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 26s yes but not so solid with 27s where 45 of 69 locos spent 1/3 of their life off the SCR… a few for 3 years at Thornaby before joining their class members on the LMR until the end of the 60s by which time they were all in Scotland. 

 

And the Thornaby 27s (D5370-78, later 27024-32) were freight-only and not boiler-fitted, so had a Class 25/3-style gap on the underframe where the water tank would have been.

[MidlandRed]

The Scottish class 37s were D6838-59 and D6903-5, transferred from the WR from September 1966. These were allocated variously to Haymarket, Polmadie and Eastfield. D6819-37 and many others were transferred WR to NER (Incl York and Healey Mills). 

[pH]

4 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

That’s what I remember too. The Ian Allan Locoshed book 1975 edition has a photo of a 37 and 40 on the cover I think at Grangemouth.

Photo taken on the first day I saw EE Type 3s in Scotland. (Sneaking in to spoil a picture at Dunfermline shed  on August 23 1966 😁.)

 

 

[Hal Nail]

12 hours ago, The Pilotman said:

I think it would be helpful if @dexterph5 specified where in Scotland and when in the 1960s, otherwise this could become a very long and potentially time-wasting thread.

I'm vaguely curious why anyone would decide to model something they aren't familiar with.

[pH]

On 15/05/2023 at 23:10, Hal Nail said:

I'm vaguely curious why anyone would decide to model something they aren't familiar with.

I think that’s a common situation. A person learns something that they find interesting about a railway they’ve previously known little about (colour of the locos, an unusual freight operation - whatever) and thinks that it might be something they would like to incorporate in a model. They’ve already made a tentative decision to model at least part of that railway, based on very little information about the subject. They then do more detailed research on that railway - websites, books, magazine articles, asking for help/information on RMWeb etc. That research results either in a decision to go ahead with a model (it is as interesting as it first appeared to be) or a decision not to. The OP in this topic appears to be in that ‘research’ phase.