Glasgow subway

[Jesse]

Hi all,
I'm thinking about building a micro layout based on the Glasgow Subway as it was just before the 1970's modernization. It should be fun to try and create the run-down atmosphere of the last years. There are a lot of photos around but I have not been able to find any plans, particularly some of the stations would be very helpful. Can anyone help me?

[Matt37268]

Maybe this might be worth a look at? 

 

[standardblue]

This recently posted diorama may also be of interest, if you've not seen it already.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/179819-glasgow-subway-workshop-diorama/#comment-5199389

[Andy Kirkham]

1 hour ago, Matt37268 said:

Maybe this might be worth a look at? 

 

Wonderful. I moved to Glasgow in 1979 so I never knew the old Subway. What Glaswegians always used to recall was its characteristic aroma.

 

There is a plaque commemorating the opening of the  modernised Subway by the Queen on 1st November 1979; what it doesn't say is that the work was behind schedule and the system didn't open to the public until the following April. 

 

For many years I lived in Garnethill and commuted by Subway from St George's Cross to Hillhead.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Andy Kirkham

[Dave John]

Had a  look through my stuff. As you say  lots of photos and video, but not drawings. Also there is preserved coach at the Glasgow  museum of transport. 

 

Actually it only a stones throw away , I should nip down with a tape measure .... 

[kevinlms]

There was a 2 page article in Model Railway Constructor 1977 May. There is some line drawings and photos.

 

Also a note to say that a comprehensive article appeared in Modern Tramway for February and March. It doesn't mention the year, but presumably 1977.

 

 

At least you don't have to spend money on points - coz there weren't any!

[flubrush]

9 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

Wonderful. I moved to Glasgow in 1979 so I never knew the old Subway. What Glaswegians always used to recall was its characteristic aroma.

 

According to my father,  who knew the Subway in its rope worked days,  it was the smell of the preservative treatment for the rope,  which was probably liberally plastered around the track.  The smell of it hung around for many years.  I used the Subway regularly in the 60s and 70s and the smell was still very distinctive.   I dare say a blind person would never have any problems locating an underground station. :-)   I've been away from Glasgow since the modernised version appeared so I don't know if the smell has survived the modernisation.

 

Jim.

[Legend]

Some Underground stations were very unobtrusive , the entrance was “like going up a close” - that’s Glaswegian slang for entering a tenement building . 
 

The system had charm but was ancient by the late 60s . My Mum had need to go to a dress shop in Partick. So we went on the underground from St Enoch actually to I think what is now known as Kelvin Hall station ( I think it was renamed in the modernisation - can’t remember what it was called before)  . As a 7 year old I thought it very exciting . 2 car red trains on two circles of track with island platforms ( they were all the same track wise , so I don’t think you need specific track plans of stations, Hillhead , St Enoch and Buchanan St were changed in the modernisation to have two platforms , but originally had the same island platform ) , just like a trainset in fact . 
 

i think I am correct in saying most stations were on a hump so that arriving trains let go of the cable and glided to a halt , and leaving ones had gravity to assist them away . The system was later electrified but of course this original built in feature stayed .  I remember the smell, quite distinctive and I think the station tunnels had quite large adverts up the walls . 
 

Unbelievably the trains were hoisted up to the shed in Ibrox for maintenance !  
 

there are some reasonable books on the system , although curiously I don’t seem to have any ! 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Legend

[pH]

Something I remember from the subway that was changed even before the big modernization was the scissoring gates, instead of solid doors, as shown in this picture:
 

https://www.summerleetg.co.uk/blog/images/ug_train5.jpg

 

There were doors between the vestibules and the actual seating compartments to stop draughts in the cars.

 

The bodywork of the old cars was very flexible - adjacent surfaces (roofs, sides, seating, floors etc) could be moving in quite different directions.

 

And we used to look out for ‘the flash’ in the tunnel under the river between Govan Cross and Merkland Street. I don’t know what it was, but I would guess ‘break and make’ between different circuits in the power rails.

[Wickham Green too]

My clearest memory is, indeed, of the way the car bodies creaked and visibly racked every time the train started or stopped ........ they couldn't have lasted much longer.

[Legend]

5 minutes ago, pH said:

Something I remember from the subway that was changed even before the big modernization was the scissoring gates, instead of solid doors, as shown in this picture:
 

https://www.summerleetg.co.uk/blog/images/ug_train5.jpg

 

There were doors between the vestibules and the actual seating compartments to stop draughts in the cars.

 

The bodywork of the old cars was very flexible - adjacent surfaces (roofs, sides, seating, floors etc) could be moving in quite different directions.

 

And we used to look out for ‘the flash’ in the tunnel under the river between Govan Cross and Merkland Street. I don’t know what it was, but I would guess ‘break and make’ between different circuits in the power rails.

 I thought the solid doors replaced the scissored gates , but I might be wrong . I think it was all manual too being opened by the guard - they weren’t electrically operated doors . 

[pH]

1 minute ago, Legend said:

 I thought the solid doors replaced the scissored gates , but I might be wrong . I think it was all manual too being opened by the guard - they weren’t electrically operated doors . 

Yes, unclear post on my part, sorry. The gates did precede the solid doors but the change happened while the old cars were still in service. And yes, they were manual - the driver opened the gate at the front of the train.

[Wheatley]

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781854141903/Circles-Under-Clyde-History-Glasgow-1854141902/plp

 

I can't recall off hand if there were any drawings in it but I do remember it was fascinating. 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

Some Underground stations were very unobtrusive , the entrance was “like going up a close” - that’s Glaswegian slang for entering a tenement building . 
 

 

The only bit you need to model if you build your layout on the carpet like Sam's Trains !

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, pH said:

Something I remember from the subway that was changed even before the big modernization was the scissoring gates, instead of solid doors, as shown in this picture:
 

 

Yes, that's because many of the cars were modernised and the gates were replaced with doors. But not all.

 

Some stock was built for opening, but the fleet was expanded about 20 years after opening.

[keefer]

Could always try The Virtual Mitchell or The Glasgow City Archives

EDIT: also The Glasgow Story

This may have something relevant in among the many pages as previously I've seen building plans for tenements, The Old College etc.

Edited June 15, 2023 by keefer

[Michael Hodgson]

I went to Glasgow specially to see the old Subway shortly before it was due to close for rebuilding in the 1970s. 

I was disappointed as it had closed prematurely because of some technical problem.

[kevinlms]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I went to Glasgow specially to see the old Subway shortly before it was due to close for rebuilding in the 1970s. 

I was disappointed as it had closed prematurely because of some technical problem.

Yes, because one of the stations had developed severe cracks in the roof and they thought the roof might fall in!

Sounds like a reasonable precaution to me, considering how the entire Subway was falling apart.

[hexagon789]

9 hours ago, flubrush said:

According to my father,  who knew the Subway in its rope worked days,  it was the smell of the preservative treatment for the rope,  which was probably liberally plastered around the track.  The smell of it hung around for many years.  I used the Subway regularly in the 60s and 70s and the smell was still very distinctive.   I dare say a blind person would never have any problems locating an underground station. :-)   I've been away from Glasgow since the modernised version appeared so I don't know if the smell has survived the modernisation.

 

Jim.

There was no rope to preserve ;)

 

Two steel cables, hence 'cable hauled subway'. I don't think a rope would've stood up well to the harsh 'gripper' treatment, no matter how it was coated.

 

It is just a myth that the smell stems from any form of preservative used on the Subway, the nearby Low Level tunnels if the Argyle and North Clyde lines smell exactly the same in the below surface stations.

 

A sort of damp, fusty, slightly sulphury smell and yes - you still get the smell on the Subway a little bit, but I think the Low Level (particularly Glasgow Central and Argyle Street stations) has it more strongly.

Edited June 15, 2023 by hexagon789

[Jesse]

Thanks for all suggestions and sharing your memories, much appreciated!
 

What I find interesting about the pre-modernized system is that all stations seemed to have their own character. Some had quite nicely designed entrance buildings (St. Enoch, West Street, Copland Road) while others were more basic, part of a building facade or altogether hidden in an alleyway. There appeared to be three main types of stations: The ones with a shed-type glass roof  (Bridge Street, Cessnock, Copland Road, Partick Cross), the completely covered tube-like, deeper, stations (St. Enoch, Hillhead, Kelvinbridge, Buchanan Street), and then there were stations that seemed to have a number of rectangular shafts that let daylight in (West Street, Kinning Park, Merkland Street). I wonder how those stations looked at the surface, did they have a series of smaller glass roofs?

 

It think it should be interesting to build a square shaped box with slots that show the different kind of stations, with trains running around in a loop, perhaps with different types of entrance buildings at the top. (as per the prototype some amidst recently torn-down tenement buildings)

 

By the way, I can recommend this film: https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/0421

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Jesse

[hexagon789]

8 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Thanks for all suggestions and sharing your memories, much appreciated!
 

What I find interesting about the pre-modernized system is that all stations seemed to have their own character. Some had quite nicely designed entrance buildings (St. Enoch, West Street, Copland Road) while others were more basic, part of a building facade or altogether hidden in an alleyway. There appeared to be three main types of stations: The ones with a shed-type glass roof  (Bridge Street, Cessnock, Copland Road, Partick Cross), the completely covered tube-like, deeper, stations (St. Enoch, Hillhead, Kelvinbridge, Buchanan Street), and then there were stations that seemed to have a number of rectangular shafts that let daylight in (West Street, Kinning Park, Merkland Street). I wonder how those stations looked at the surface, did they have a series of smaller glass roofs?

 

It think it should be interesting to build a square shaped box with slots that show the different kind of stations, with trains running around in a loop, perhaps with different types of entrance buildings at the top. (as per the prototype some amidst recently torn-down tenement buildings)

 

By the way, I can recommend this film: https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/0421

 

If you are interested in some photos of the stations, as well as a detailed background and service history of the system pre- and post-modernisation, 'Circles Under the Clyde' is an excellent book.

[Jesse]

I have ordered the book this afternoon 😀

[hexagon789]

13 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I have ordered the book this afternoon 😀

I hope you enjoy it then :)

[darrel]

It's a brilliant book.

Pity there are no models of the subway cars original, current or new. 

[andyman7]

That Blue Peter film is fabulous (I probably watched it aged 6) - the bit on the old lifting arrangements for cars needing repair was amazing (including the chap alongside Peter Purves working away with a fag in his mouth - how times have changed)