"Living with dignity" in retirement

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, woodenhead said:

After the diversion in the thread about house prices, saw this article in the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/05/70-of-central-london-properties-sold-this-year-bought-with-cash-savills

 

Savills  !!!

 

Hardly a bellwether for the UK housing market, an up market estate agent mainly dealing with expensive properties.

 

The head lines read "CENTRAL LONDON", hardly an area for those with modest to medium means and an area which the high achievers are leaving for a better quality of life outside the city since covid struck and working from home started

 

Savills director is quoted "prime markets most synonymous with equity rich buyers"  "Prices for the £5m-plus London prime market remain flat (-0.1%),"

 

Sadly an article twisting the facts to suite the authors political aims

 

"Report fuels fear that rich overseas buyers are buying properties at expense of working Londoners"

 

Working Londoners do not buy high end properties unless they are at the very top of earners, and then other reports state these buyers are leaving central London for pastures new.  I doubt very much rich foreigners would ever buy in a working class area. Let them waste their money as it eventually trickles down to us minions

 

What we don't hear is that John Lewis is divulging into property ownership and creating some social housing, presumably as ethical landlords

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by hayfield

[alastairq]

One advantage of [private LL] renting in old age is, the fearsome prospect of having to pay for expensive maintenance or repair to a property isn't the tenant's responsibility.

 

Indeed, personally, I have discovered a minor source of income by notifying my LL of a problem [ by text], sourcing any hardware needed [tinternet]...and fixing the issue myself. This leads to a knock on the door from my LL, a bottle of wine in one hand, and a wad of cash for me in the other!

 

On my tenancy agreement, it states ''no pets''...which, I believe, is a 'standard' restriction?

On seeing 'my' cat, I can honestly say [or, could say?] that she is 'Not-my-cat'....she actually, simply, adopted me after moving in from next door. [ Neighbour who 'homes' displaced ferals from the usual sources such as Cat's Protection, etc ]

 

I realise LL could be stuffy about it [her?]...but if so, then LL can also dispose of the rooftop wasp's nests, etc. Not my pets, definitely...although I don't harm them, and keep suitable old postcards on every windowsill, to help pop errant visitors outside...

 

 

[62613]

23 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

They may not be in "second homes" but can legally register to vote both at home and at their college, though they're not allowed to vote twice in a national election, but they can vote in both local council elections (unless it's the same council)

If the local authority is providing services where they live, why not?

[Michael Hodgson]

20 minutes ago, alastairq said:

One advantage of [private LL] renting in old age is, the fearsome prospect of having to pay for expensive maintenance or repair to a property isn't the tenant's responsibility.

 

For many unfortunately that fearsome prospect is replaced by the problem of getting recalcitrant landlord to meet his obligations.

[hayfield]

26 minutes ago, alastairq said:

One advantage of [private LL] renting in old age is, the fearsome prospect of having to pay for expensive maintenance or repair to a property isn't the tenant's responsibility.

 

Indeed, personally, I have discovered a minor source of income by notifying my LL of a problem [ by text], sourcing any hardware needed [tinternet]...and fixing the issue myself. This leads to a knock on the door from my LL, a bottle of wine in one hand, and a wad of cash for me in the other!

 

On my tenancy agreement, it states ''no pets''...which, I believe, is a 'standard' restriction?

On seeing 'my' cat, I can honestly say [or, could say?] that she is 'Not-my-cat'....she actually, simply, adopted me after moving in from next door. [ Neighbour who 'homes' displaced ferals from the usual sources such as Cat's Protection, etc ]

 

I realise LL could be stuffy about it [her?]...but if so, then LL can also dispose of the rooftop wasp's nests, etc. Not my pets, definitely...although I don't harm them, and keep suitable old postcards on every windowsill, to help pop errant visitors outside...

 

 

 

 

We hear all to often about bad landlords, whilst in the minority are seemingly allowed to get away with it. My niece was being conned by an ex-landlord (who we later found was well known for dishonest behaviour). He refused to refund her deposit against the managing agents instructions, he even tried to make the  action by taking her to court. She was lucky as her uncle was a solicitor, resulting in both a return of her money and compensation.

 

Luckily they found a good landlord, who charges below the going rate to keep good tenants, he even wrote to them at the start of covid saying if they had problems just pay what they could afford, he said they could even live rent free for a period if it helped. As it happens they paid their rent in full.  As you say in return they look after his property.

 

My daughter likewise have lived in rented accommodation for the last 8 years, another good landlord below market rates in return they look after the property which keeps his property maintained at his cost. This has allowed them to save up and are now having their own (new to them) property refurbished. As it happens their landlord is seeking to extend the house they are renting, presumably to either move back into or sell and timings look to be favourable to both parties

 

There are a lot of good landlords out there

 

Back to your comments re maintenance, on the basis  that our property would likely cost £1500 to £2000 to rent, you can afford a lot of maintenance for that money,  as it is we have totally refurbished the house over the past 6 years but we do have to do the odd thing go wrong every now and then. At worst if ever a large bill we could not afford occurred, we could arrange either a loan or one of the better home revision mortgages. For us having our own home is a blessing and allows us a certain amount of financial freedom.

 

 

[geoffers]

On 05/07/2023 at 09:50, alastairq said:

Preceding my abandoning the work environment, I/we were offered lots of chances [and subject to huge amounts of persuasion] to change the pension scheme we were on.

It was a 'hard sell' in every respect! 

Cynical me, I reckoned that the only reason Government wanted us to adopt the new scheme 

was to save money. Which, to me, meant glossing up the positives, but leaving us worse off,  finding out only when it was too late.

So I opted to remain with the original scheme I was on.

Me too. Same reasons.

Edited July 6, 2023 by geoffers

[woodenhead]

@hayfield I am not so stupid to think that people buying multi-million pound properties in Westminster are denying middle and low income earners of property, it was just an interesting article.

[scottystitch]

In a similar vein to the thread on RMWeb regarding prostate checks for the over 50s, I must commend the OP for starting this discussion.  It has been timely.  I'd also like to thank the contributor who...contributed the link to the Which? calculator.  Having put my details into said calculator, I'm now in the quandary of not believing it.  It does seem too good to be true ( in respect of a draw down pension) so I will need to get that verified by someone in the know.

 

I place myself firmly into the group of those who, if we had our time again, would ensure that from day one of my working life, I would contribute as much as I could reasonably afford into my pension.  With my first job (starting in 1992), with General Accident (insurance), whilst I did at least have the sense to join the company scheme, I neglected to save any more than the bare minimum, retirement being "too far off to think about" then.  Ten years later, a period out of work studying for a degree did nothing to improve the situation and it wasn't until 2006 when I joined my current employer that I started to take pensions seriously.  Initially Bristow Helicopters matched employee contributions up to 7%, so almost from day one I sacrificed 13% (mainly because I like round, even numbers with things like this).  Subsequently, a few years ago, the company increased their contribution to match 9.7%*, and so with my love of round numbers, I increased my share to...17%.  Having just received a meagre pay rise, I'll be adding a percentage point to that now.  According to the projections, it seems that the saving strategy over the last 17 years will pay off, after my neglecting pension saving for so long.  But I would certainly do things differently if I could go back in time!

 

I'm very lucky that I get paid pretty well for what I do, and whilst, due to my shovelling of funds into the pension, and us overpaying the mortgage as much as we can (due to my significant other's desire to be mortgage free by 55), we don't have nearly as much disposable income as some of my colleagues, it should mean we can both retire at 60 reasonably comfortably.  We can then, using the draw down type pension, hopefully have a good ten to fifteen years before we start to physically slow down and have less use for currency beyond day to day needs. At least that's the plan.

 

As far as having a strategy for retirement, I can honestly say that if I retired tomorrow I still wouldn't have time to do all the things Id like to, so boredom shouldn't come into it!

 

Best

 

Scott.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

@hayfield I am not so stupid to think that people buying multi-million pound properties in Westminster are denying middle and low income earners of property, it was just an interesting article.

 

I enjoy reading Tolkien, but the difference is I realise its fiction. From the limited amount I have read it is making conclusions that are not born out from the facts they present

 

Its exactly like the so called interest rate bomb which is apparently affecting all who have mortgages greatly. Agreed a small amount of borrowers are adversely affected resulting in massive payment increases, however most borrowers will see a relatively small change in payments. Don't forget many borrowers would have had their mortgages for years and seen the capitol they owe diminish and not borrowing very large sums any increase in payments would be more modest, those on fixed rates (at a historic high apparently) will suffer no rises. But these facts do not make interesting headlines

 

I like others had a mortgage when the rates went up to 15%, it was a spike which quickly went down and my payments were adjusted at the annual payment review, I cannot recall it was painful as interest rates were high anyway. Many of us use this as an illustration quite often, but few if any paid that rate for long if at all. But its fact when taken out of context makes good reading, 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

We hear all to often about bad landlords, whilst in the minority are seemingly allowed to get away with it.

 

In fairness there must be just as many bad tenants, who also seem to get away with it.  I'm thinking in particular of one who rented my parents' house through a local estate agency whilst they were living for 3 years in northern Sweden.  Didn't pay the rent, trashed the place, and the courts kept giving them the benefit of the doubt.  Problem only sorted out by them doing a runner once Scotland Yard found out where they living as they were wanted for other matters.

[hayfield]

7 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

In a similar vein to the thread on RMWeb regarding prostate checks for the over 50s, I must commend the OP for starting this discussion.  It has been timely.  I'd also like to thank the contributor who...contributed the link to the Which? calculator.  Having put my details into said calculator, I'm now in the quandary of not believing it.  It does seem too good to be true ( in respect of a draw down pension) so I will need to get that verified by someone in the know.

 

I place myself firmly into the group of those who, if we had our time again, would ensure that from day one of my working life, I would contribute as much as I could reasonably afford into my pension.  With my first job (starting in 1992), with General Accident (insurance), whilst I did at least have the sense to join the company scheme, I neglected to save any more than the bare minimum, retirement being "too far off to think about" then.  Ten years later, a period out of work studying for a degree did nothing to improve the situation and it wasn't until 2006 when I joined my current employer that I started to take pensions seriously.  Initially Bristow Helicopters matched employee contributions up to 7%, so almost from day one I sacrificed 13% (mainly because I like round, even numbers with things like this).  Subsequently, a few years ago, the company increased their contribution to match 9.7%*, and so with my love of round numbers, I increased my share to...17%.  Having just received a meagre pay rise, I'll be adding a percentage point to that now.  According to the projections, it seems that the saving strategy over the last 17 years will pay off, after my neglecting pension saving for so long.  But I would certainly do things differently if I could go back in time!

 

I'm very lucky that I get paid pretty well for what I do, and whilst, due to my shovelling of funds into the pension, and us overpaying the mortgage as much as we can (due to my significant other's desire to be mortgage free by 55), we don't have nearly as much disposable income as some of my colleagues, it should mean we can both retire at 60 reasonably comfortably.  We can then, using the draw down type pension, hopefully have a good ten to fifteen years before we start to physically slow down and have less use for currency beyond day to day needs. At least that's the plan.

 

As far as having a strategy for retirement, I can honestly say that if I retired tomorrow I still wouldn't have time to do all the things Id like to, so boredom shouldn't come into it!

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

Scott

 

Plus you can do far more with your pension funds these days, annuities are dead in the water owing to the historic low interest rates,

 

The other thing is that you will also give yourselves options/choices where you live and what you live in. We have moved from inside to outside the M25 into a nice semi rural village

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

In fairness there must be just as many bad tenants, who also seem to get away with it.  I'm thinking in particular of one who rented my parents' house through a local estate agency whilst they were living for 3 years in northern Sweden.  Didn't pay the rent, trashed the place, and the courts kept giving them the benefit of the doubt.  Problem only sorted out by them doing a runner once Scotland Yard found out where they living as they were wanted for other matters.

 

 

You are spot on, my wife's best friend never had a pension, but wisely invested some small inherence's and built up a small property portfolio. She seems to have good tenants and tries to look after them. One of her tenants who had been a very good tenant for years, however she stopped paying, after unsuccessfully trying to help her it took ages to evict the tenant, and thousands of £'s to reinstate the property into a habitable state

 

As you say good and bad on both sides, and don't forget some housing associations can be the worst of landlords 

[scottystitch]

6 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Scott

 

Plus you can do far more with your pension funds these days, annuities are dead in the water owing to the historic low interest rates,

 

The other thing is that you will also give yourselves options/choices where you live and what you live in. We have moved from inside to outside the M25 into a nice semi rural village

Hello,

 

Yes that is true.  I'm afraid I made a bit of a fool of myself.  I don't think I could do the job I do if I was stupid, but I felt very stupid speaking to a finance person about pensions as I had thought buying an annuity was the only option, albeit wit the option of 25% being drawn tax free.  I didn't know a thing about draw down pensions, for instance, and it forced me to go and look at things properly.  Our plan is to move to another country (one of the ex-colonies) and downsize at the same time (although a 10m by 5m railway building is non-negotiable) and remain mortgage free, hopefully with some cash left over from the house sale.  From what I can see, the draw down type arrangement means you can take a bit more out regularly in those first retirement years, when you are fit and able to "see the world" and then when things slow down you a) need less, and b) will be receiving the state pension to help things along.  I realise there is a bit more care and consideration required, but that is my basic understanding of it.

 

Best

Scott.

[hayfield]

3 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

Hello,

 

Yes that is true.  I'm afraid I made a bit of a fool of myself.  I don't think I could do the job I do if I was stupid, but I felt very stupid speaking to a finance person about pensions as I had thought buying an annuity was the only option, albeit wit the option of 25% being drawn tax free.  I didn't know a thing about draw down pensions, for instance, and it forced me to go and look at things properly.  Our plan is to move to another country (one of the ex-colonies) and downsize at the same time (although a 10m by 5m railway building is non-negotiable) and remain mortgage free, hopefully with some cash left over from the house sale.  From what I can see, the draw down type arrangement means you can take a bit more out regularly in those first retirement years, when you are fit and able to "see the world" and then when things slow down you a) need less, and b) will be receiving the state pension to help things along.  I realise there is a bit more care and consideration required, but that is my basic understanding of it.

 

Best

Scott.

 

 

We both have drawdown pensions and until recently have not used them, but just dipped into one to pay for our holiday, but no plans as of yet for regular payments. Our thoughts are the opposite to yours and are to top up our other pension income in later life.  

[scottystitch]

11 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

We both have drawdown pensions and until recently have not used them, but just dipped into one to pay for our holiday, but no plans as of yet for regular payments. Our thoughts are the opposite to yours and are to top up our other pension income in later life.  

I am hoping that we can live off of mine initially and the my SO's can be used later.  We only have the two personal pensions (the General Accident one is effectively worthless - it might buy us a meal out now and then!) and then our state pensions, and so there is no other income.  That said, I could possibly see us working (very) part-time initially.

 

This thread is a very interesting discussion.

 

Best

Scott.

[alastairq]

I am a bump-along-the-bottom pensioner.

 

Civil Service pensions really only deliver the goods if one's salary was significantly high enough.

 

I was a grade [band] D Civil Servant..equivalent to a middle management grade. All my colleagues [serval hundred at our establishment alone] were on the same grade.

Prior to being graded, a Specialist Instructional Officer [job title,posh, ain't it?} was quite well paid when compared to what became equivalent post gradings.

 

But the Civil Service as a whole struggled to find a slot for the likes of us to fit into.  Much like Government Meat Inspectors, for example?

 

The problem with the low salary level was, it was difficult to budget for increased units of pension...

 

Many colleagues were ex-military anyway, so often had their military pensions [and lump sums] to fall back on....All of which didn't assist empathy.

 

My pension income consists of  a small gaggle of individual pensions. Bits from here, and bits from there.

40 quid a month here, a hundred quid a month there.....and so on.

Taken as a whole, it is more or less livable on.

The best performing pension income I have comes from a decent bus company pension, albeit not a lot of year's worth, as it started quite a while after I did...

Before that, I didn't consider buying into a pension if one were available, simply because I didn't know from one month to the next, whether I would still have a job or not. {Thanks, Maggie!]

I even have a small amount from way back in the days when I was really a lad.....But again, only a couple of year's worth as that was when I could qualify to pay.....

None of them were transferable...None could be 'added,' to a new one....So there it is..bits and bobs really.

 

I never really realised how much being in ''work'' actually cost me...until I left the workplace environment completely. 

 

[The Johnster]

I am quite happy with the Royal Mail pension I got, currently just under £450 a month for ten years service, and when I left (on permanent sick) after ten years sevice in 1997, I was offered a lump sum or higher amount of post-65 pension. which was very useful at that time.  This pension is taxed, though, and the sum above is after PAYE.  Seems pretty fair for only ten years' service at Postman and Postman Higher Grade rates.

[AndrueC]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

For many unfortunately that fearsome prospect is replaced by the problem of getting recalcitrant landlord to meet his obligations.

An 82 year-old at my golf club has just been told that he has two months to vacate his rental property. This is in the South Northants area so it's anyone's guess how he's going to find somewhere else for him and his wife. Apparently the council won't house him unless he gets evicted. So now he faces an almost impossible challenge to find somewhere else or the extremely unpleasant experience of forcing his LL to evict him.

 

I am very, very glad that my Dad told me to get on the property ladder ASAP. I now own my home and don't have to worry about keeping a roof over my head.

[AndrueC]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

Plus you can do far more with your pension funds these days, annuities are dead in the water owing to the historic low interest rates,

Actually they are enjoying a resurgence at the moment and I might be buying one. It will only be for ten years and the bulk of my pension will be kept elsewhere but annuities are offering good rates at the moment and for me will provide a useful guaranteed income for the first decade while I find my feet.

Edited July 6, 2023 by AndrueC

[John M]

I found the pension/personal wealth situation challenging as a result of periods of un-employment during busts in construction and having  to cease work early as a result of ill health, though things worked out in the end.

 

In my early 20s the plan was to have an investment property and investments in managed funds as at the time my employer did not have a company pension plan. 

 

I worked for a couple of companies that had non-contributory-non-portable schemes, the turning point came when I joined a company that had a contributory portable pension scheme where I continued to make contributions while self employed and working for other employers. 

 

Fed up with the busts and booms in construction I took up a secure Government job in Ireland about 20 years ago, before moving to New Zealand and back into construction. I stayed in the Government job long enough to use my pension pot to buy additional service and secure pension benefits that paid out when I turned 60s.

 

The situation with state and personal pensions in New Zealand is quite different from the UK and Ireland, the old age pension is paid out as a universal benefit from 65 rather than from NI contributions, there is no tax relief as such on personal pension plans, though the saver can directly access their pension pot at 65.

 

Ironically NZ old age pension or Superannuation I receive is higher than an Irish or UK contributory state pension. Having turned 66 I now receive an Irish State pension with NZ paying me the difference between Superannuation and the Irish State Pension.

 

We used the profits from the sale of the rental to tie us through the years I was unable to work before I qualified for Superannuation, although our savings are modest we probably have enough to tie us through into our mid 80s before having to down-size, if my wife or I live that long.

 

Looking back I think I did quite well despite setbacks compared to my parents and grand parents. Although my parents were frugal and my father had steady relatively well paid work as a tradesman they were unable to raise a deposit for a house and rented a council house, until they were able to purchase it out right for a fraction of its value under during the late 1970s under an Irish tenants right to buy scheme.

 

My grandparents on both sides were less fortunate one a gamekeeper the other a locomotive driver. Both families had to give up the house that came with the job and become renters when their work ceased because of changing times or ill health.

 

Goodness knows how things will turn out for our daughter when she reaches her 60s

 

 

[stovepipe]

6 hours ago, scottystitch said:

Our plan is to move to another country (one of the ex-colonies) and

Be aware that the UK state pension is not increased by inflation each year in Canada, or New Zealand.  The value remains fixed at the point when you leave the UK. 

[scottystitch]

7 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

Be aware that the UK state pension is not increased by inflation each year in Canada, or New Zealand.  The value remains fixed at the point when you leave the UK. 

I didn’t know that.
 

Does that remain true if it is paid into a U.K. bank account?

 

Best

 

Scott. 

[stovepipe]

There may be legal ways around it, but that’s what the Gov.uk website says. Search for !

’State Pension if you retire abroad’.
I had reason to look for what happens in the EU recently (inflation is paid), but noticed it was not true everywhere else.

[pH]

3 hours ago, stovepipe said:

Be aware that the UK state pension is not increased by inflation each year in Canada, or New Zealand.  The value remains fixed at the point when you leave the UK. 

It applies to many more countries than Canada and New Zealand! 
 

Read this page:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension

 

If a country does not appear on that page, UK pensions are not increased in that country. 

Canada and New Zealand are mentioned specifically because they are part of the group of countries which do have social security agreements with the UK. Therefore pensions should be upgraded in Canada and New Zealand, but they are specifically excepted. 
 

Each year, a motion is introduced in the UK House of Commons to increase in line with the appropriate formula all UK government pensions being paid to pensioners living abroad. It is immediately followed by another motion “… except to pensioners living in the following countries.”

 

My UK pension is not indexed. If I lived 25 miles further south, it would be.

 

(Bitter? moi?)

Edited July 7, 2023 by pH

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have quickly read through this thread, and have recent in depth experience of elderly care. This is a serious problem even for those in the 'comfortable zone' of retirement income. In the South East outside London we went past 50k p.a. last year for a place for an inmate requiring significant care in the 'dementia, physical disabilities, manageable mentally ill' categories in homes which were properly competent to deliver such care, but far from luxurious. It is possible to pay much more if you want to...

 

Fortunately those we had to place in care all had pensions, investments and owned property, which were utilised to fund it, and my wife and I acting on theoir behalf have burned our way through just over a million over the past seven years, since the first of our parental generation entered care, up to my Pa's death in January this year, which brought this stage of existence to an end. Now, that was all their own money, and very properly spent ensuring they had the care required; and it was good for both them and the rest of the family, as much as such things can be, all past 90 when they died, nary a problem with Covid, excellent NHS support whenever they fell and broke bones, developed kidney infections, had heart problems, arthritic joint failures, and all the rest that comes with late age.

 

Here's the big learning from getting to know so many others - and thus their relatives - in the various care homes for residents that needed medical care, regular skilled observation  and monitoring. You want one with a high proportion of qualified nurses. The residents healthe isn't ddependent on hair salons, gyms, beauticians, daily visiting entertainers and the like; spend the money on the vital aspects.