"Living with dignity" in retirement

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

PwC in Australia have been caught out. They have been major contractors for the Australian Tax Office, but at the same same time advising corporate businesses of how to avoid paying tax, using the very information that they wrote for the ATO!

Nothing like a good conflict of interest and they are having to sell one arm of their business for $1, such has been the trashing of their reputation.

 Apparently it has spread to the UK as well.......

[AndrueC]

And in a timely manner things get weird at work. Boss resigns, senior management apparently want us back in the office two days a week (screw that). Maybe I'll be retiring six months earlier than I intended.

 

It's not so much the working in an office that bothers me. It's someone thinking they can bend me to their will just because they pay me a salary. News flash: I don't need their money.

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, AndrueC said:

And in a timely manner things get weird at work. Boss resigns, senior management apparently want us back in the office two days a week (screw that). Maybe I'll be retiring six months earlier than I intended.

 

It's not so much the working in an office that bothers me. It's someone thinking they can bend me to their will just because they pay me a salary. News flash: I don't need their money.

Sounds like one day when I was getting a lot of hassle from my then boss. I told him that I worked there because I liked doing signal engineering. My pension lump sum would be much bigger than my remaining mortgage balance and pension would be more than enough to cover my other outgoings. If I stopped enjoying the job I had no need to keep doing it. Shortly afterwards he left. Fortunately the new boss was smart enough to realise that part management success depends on keeping the experienced staff on-side, so I stayed until he was settled into the organisation and the succession plan was in place.

Edited July 1, 2023 by TheSignalEngineer

[AndrueC]

28 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Sounds like one day when I was getting a lot of hassle from my then boss. I told him that I worked there because I liked doing signal engineering. My pension lump sum would be much bigger than my remaining mortgage balance and pension would be more than enough to cover my other outgoings. If I stopped enjoying the job I had no need to keep doing it.

Exactly my position. I thought management had understood that when they agreed to let me switch to a four day week earlier this year. Me and my (now ex-) boss are the two most technically knowledgeable people in the company. Maybe they do know it. Perhaps this is their cunning plan - decimate the team and use contractors.

 

Good luck with that.

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, AndrueC said:

Me and my (now ex-) boss are the two most technically knowledgeable people in the company. Maybe they do know it.

I was very fortunate that my last boss was clever enough to know that his job was to manage the team and let the people who knew the technical get on with it as long as they stayed on schedule. 

We had a lot of external people dumped on us during the transition to Railtrack. They were supposed to be going to show how the engineering side should be run. They threw away all of the history and that led to a few catastrophic events which contributed to their downfall.

[Andy Kirkham]

My wife and I fall into the "moderate" bracket and we're both inclined to live quite frugally so I suppose we're OK, but for some reason almost all the other retired people we know are definitely in the "comfortable" bracket and enjoy three, four or five holidays per year. I never used to think I was prone to envy but now I've come to realise, in social gatherings how much of conversation is taken up with talking about holidays recently taken or planned; it sometimes makes me feel I want to avoid socialising altogether. 

 

Sometimes I just long to meet a pensioner who sometimes has to economise; reading here about the meagre amounts some people manage on is quite salutary. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Andy Kirkham

[The Johnster]

3 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

My wife and I fall into the "moderate" bracket and we're both inclined to live quite frugally so I suppose we're OK, but for some reason almost all the other retired people we know are definitely in the "comfortable" bracket and enjoy three, four or five holidays per year. I never used to think I was prone to envy but now I've come to realise, in social gatherings how much of conversation is taken up with talking about holidays recently taken or planned; it sometimes makes me feel I want to avoid socialising altogether. 

 

Sometimes I just long to meet a pensioner who sometimes has to economise; reading here about the meagre amounts some people manage on is quite salutary. 

 

Drop me a PM if you're ever in the Cardiff Area, Andy, we'll meet up somewhere for a pub lunch and I'll be more than happy to accommodate your desire to hear about meagre amounts...

 

I would say there is a difference between socialising with friends and having 'friends' that exploit opportunites to display conspicuous consumption at your expense.  Your 'friends' sound to me to be definitely in the latter category, and perhaps you should seek the company of people who are more deserving of it.  I certainly have chums and acquaintances who are millionaires or not far off it (not an unusual achievement these days), and while some of them go on several foriegn hollys every year, live nicely in decent sized houses, run posh cars, and in one case a light aircraft*,  they do not seem to be insecure enough to feel the need to talk about it much, and don't behave like this at all; I wouldn't spend time with them if they did! 

 

 

*'Biggles' does talk about flying a lot, but, then, it's his hobby and passion, and I talk about model trains a lot, so fair enough!  He even grew a handlebar moustache!

[BR traction instructor]

11 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

My wife and I fall into the "moderate" bracket and we're both inclined to live quite frugally so I suppose we're OK, but for some reason almost all the other retired people we know are definitely in the "comfortable" bracket and enjoy three, four or five holidays per year. I never used to think I was prone to envy but now I've come to realise, in social gatherings how much of conversation is taken up with talking about holidays recently taken or planned; it sometimes makes me feel I want to avoid socialising altogether. 

 

Sometimes I just long to meet a pensioner who sometimes has to economise; reading here about the meagre amounts some people manage on is quite salutary. 

 

I came across holiday envy and its repercussions whilst working for a railway TOC post 2000. My wife, whom I first met in 2000 and ironically whilst on holiday, was 22 yrs my senior, had been married before but her husband died very soon after their union, causing her to spend nineteen years on her own (solitary holidays being the biggest issue for her). This was her single biggest topic of conversation for our first two months together, along with some serious shenanigans amongst her family, which also distressed her. After two months of hearing about historic woes I pointed out that she was risking the past derailing our future and offered her the opportunity to put right her tally of solitary holidays by us making monthly  holidays our main event together, providing that she put her historical family woes (which couldn't be changed anyway) on the back burner. I was working three consecutive twelve hr shifts each week at the time and by careful use of leave could have a fortnight every month available for these holidays, my wife was approaching retirement and had plenty of leave stored up/was on a good level of leave days anyway. For 15 yrs we had this regular holiday arrangement and spent a fortune having a fabulous time but my then manager at the TOC seemed incensed that I was making such use of the shift system, that he had intended to be a way of having his staff available on call without being paid as such and he tried unsuccessfully to make work life as difficult as possible for me. The amount of money that we spent on these holidays was probably comparable to a couple bringing up two or three children but then life is about choices and we simply prioritised holidays instead.

 

My wife died in 2016 and one of her last utterances was to thank me for all our happy times together, she felt that she had caught up on what she had missed.

 

BeRTIe

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by BR traction instructor

[97406]

I’ve not booked a holiday since 2001. I’ve had weeks or fortnights off work, and I’ve gone out into the countryside, locally or further afield or to the seaside for days out, but not booked a week away somewhere exotic for ages. You don’t need to spend a wedge of cash to get away from it all and allow the mind to recuperate or maintain it in that state.
 

Some interesting stuff in this thread and that article at the beginning is most informative. I think I have retirement at 67 covered and a plan to bring the age forward based on what I can put away in the next 5 or 6 years. Part time working into my 60s is a possibility too. 

 

One thing the pandemic proved is that I’ll be far from bored in retirement! I have most of a room left to fill with…. y’know….!

[hayfield]

New to the thread but fall into the category. I worked till I was 67 but have now been retired for 3 years. Against some of my peers I am poor as we only have one main holiday a year, yet we seem to live within means, run 2 cars and going to Italy for our holiday.

 

What makes the difference is that we own our house, which I guess saves us thousands a year in rent. Secondly as we had to cancel our holiday when covid hit we invested the holiday funds into solar panels. I could see that energy was getting more expensive and that it would be eating up more and more of our income. Well we have had the panels for 20 months and the results have been far better than expected. Earlier this year I increased my energy DDI from £107pm to £140 pm the first time I have increased the payment in 3 years or more

 

Yesterday I reduced the DDI back to £110 as I am already more than £400 in credit. The last billing period my electricity bill was £1.20 for the month. In short rather than have a modest sum in the bank which is being devalued by inflation, its working by reducing our outgoings considerably.

 

As for our cancelled holiday of 3 years ago, we are off to Tuscany 3 years late in a few weeks (and managed to holiday in the UK each of the last 2 years 

 

Had we been in rented accommodation our circumstances would be very different, so whilst we are careful we feel the struggle (and it was a struggle at times) of buying our own property was well worthwhile.  

Edited July 2, 2023 by hayfield

[hayfield]

16 hours ago, AndrueC said:

And in a timely manner things get weird at work. Boss resigns, senior management apparently want us back in the office two days a week (screw that). Maybe I'll be retiring six months earlier than I intended.

 

It's not so much the working in an office that bothers me. It's someone thinking they can bend me to their will just because they pay me a salary. News flash: I don't need their money.

 

AndrueC

 

For the last 11 years I worked in one of the supermarket chains after being self employed for 29 years, what an eye opener !!

 

My second day a visitor approached me, introduced himself as the regional manager and welcomed me into the business, very old school. My section manager was also excellent, knew his job backwards and  whilst expecting hard work and high standards always recognised and or rewarded his staff for going the extra mile. a true gentleman.

 

Fast forward 11 years and the business changed from the top to the bottom management, whilst all the employees were constantly reminded they were co-owners in the business, they were treated as business assets and profit centres. Junior managers suffered worse and were constantly being coerced and bullied by their superiors, to the extent many suffered stress related illnesses. We ended up with managers who did nothing other than tick boxes, my last manager worked in a different department doing different shift hours, in the end I got fed up with him and we never spoke to each other.  The business had totally changed in the 11 years from one which served its employees to one which seemed to have little regard for its employees. 

 

For me it mattered little, I felt very sorry for those who had both been there longer and had to continue to work there. Given their working life to a special working relationship only to have it taken away, I bet many now wished that they had voted to become a PLC and took the free shares !!!

 

Still when I talk to others working for both public services and the private sector all seem to suffer the changes in modern working practices. My wife blames it on the demise of "personnel departments" to "human recourses"  who are seen by her as an evil entity.  She is a person, not a resource!! 

[33C]

8 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

My wife and I fall into the "moderate" bracket and we're both inclined to live quite frugally so I suppose we're OK, but for some reason almost all the other retired people we know are definitely in the "comfortable" bracket and enjoy three, four or five holidays per year. I never used to think I was prone to envy but now I've come to realise, in social gatherings how much of conversation is taken up with talking about holidays recently taken or planned; it sometimes makes me feel I want to avoid socialising altogether. 

 

Sometimes I just long to meet a pensioner who sometimes has to economise; reading here about the meagre amounts some people manage on is quite salutary. 

F@#k 'em! I've never felt the need to go on holiday,  I'm having too much fun here! It's just a way to fill an otherwise boring life I.m.h.o. 

[Andy Kirkham]

I was speaking recently to a neighbour, a single man, and he told me he lives on a pension of £16,000. On this he manages to sustain the hobbies of scuba diving and world travel; he manages the latter by never paying for accommodation and usually sleeping rough. I guess, judging from the appearance of his house,  that he never spends anything on maintenance. Looking at his house you might honestly think it had been abandoned for years.

[33C]

42 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

AndrueC

 

For the last 11 years I worked in one of the supermarket chains after being self employed for 29 years, what an eye opener !!

 

My second day a visitor approached me, introduced himself as the regional manager and welcomed me into the business, very old school. My section manager was also excellent, knew his job backwards and  whilst expecting hard work and high standards always recognised and or rewarded his staff for going the extra mile. a true gentleman.

 

Fast forward 11 years and the business changed from the top to the bottom management, whilst all the employees were constantly reminded they were co-owners in the business, they were treated as business assets and profit centres. Junior managers suffered worse and were constantly being coerced and bullied by their superiors, to the extent many suffered stress related illnesses. We ended up with managers who did nothing other than tick boxes, my last manager worked in a different department doing different shift hours, in the end I got fed up with him and we never spoke to each other.  The business had totally changed in the 11 years from one which served its employees to one which seemed to have little regard for its employees. 

 

For me it mattered little, I felt very sorry for those who had both been there longer and had to continue to work there. Given their working life to a special working relationship only to have it taken away, I bet many now wished that they had voted to become a PLC and took the free shares !!!

 

Still when I talk to others working for both public services and the private sector all seem to suffer the changes in modern working practices. My wife blames it on the demise of "personnel departments" to "human recourses"  who are seen by her as an evil entity.  She is a person, not a resource!! 

My company asked me to go on a bomb disposal course but I declined.  It was just ticking boxes......

[hayfield]

5 minutes ago, 33C said:

F@#k 'em! I've never felt the need to go on holiday,  I'm having too much fun here! It's just a way to fill an otherwise boring life I.m.h.o. 

 

In some ways you are correct, being retired is like being on holiday every day. Certainly when its cold and frosty staying in bed is far more desirable than having to scrape the frost off to go to work. But like all things rather than being desperate for a 2 week break (from work) a shorter but better quality holiday is more enjoyable

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

For me it mattered little, I felt very sorry for those who had both been there longer and had to continue to work there. Given their working life to a special working relationship only to have it taken away, I bet many now wished that they had voted to become a PLC and took the free shares !!!

 

I worked for a company that listed on the stock market and part of the deal was that we were all offered $1000 of shares on an interest free loan - well who wouldn't take that up?

 

Oh, how the management changed. We were all expected to sell our souls, now we were share holders (including the few that didn't take up the offer) and follow the management demands to screw customers wherever possible. No, it doesn't work like that. The share dividend we got was next to nothing.

 

Many customers had maintenance agreements, to cover day to day maintenance obviously (not faults caused by physical damage, immersing in water etc), but management tried to get us to bill customers for parts, when these were covered by agreements - what a lousy way to do business!

 

It was the beginning of the end. Next was accusing the techs of stealing parts and selling them privately - well they didn't think much of my views of being accused of being a thief! EVIDENCE- MATE, was the gist!

I had lots of faulty parts booked out (I was a maintenance tech), but they refused to take them out of my stock list, after I had returned the stuff - WTF would I want with faulty parts?

 

I returned faulty parts, along with a list and job numbers etc, as required to keep the vehicle manageable. Worked well for a while, then my returns were not taken off stock level, so my list got longer. Complained to my supervisor, said he'd fix but never did. List got longer and longer.

Stopped sending my list (still keep it updated for my records), but didn't email it. My supervisor complained, told him to remove the last lot and I'll start again. Never did.

 

Clearly, the writing was on the wall (which I knew, because business model had long been unsustainable), because shortly after, I was one of 25% made redundant. I had to make the vehicle available for pick up the next day, so I did and it was jammed full of faulty and not faulty parts, with no identification. 2 supervisors came out to pick up my car and they were stunned at how much I had.

I didn't want it, let alone be accused of stealing.

[Andy Kirkham]

13 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

I would say there is a difference between socialising with friends and having 'friends' that exploit opportunites to display conspicuous consumption at your expense.  Your 'friends' sound to me to be definitely in the latter category, and perhaps you should seek the company of people who are more deserving of it.  I certainly have chums and acquaintances who are millionaires or not far off it (not an unusual achievement these days), and while some of them go on several foriegn hollys every year, live nicely in decent sized houses, run posh cars, and in one case a light aircraft*,  they do not seem to be insecure enough to feel the need to talk about it much, and don't behave like this at all; I wouldn't spend time with them if they did! 

 

 

I woudn't want to suggest that our friends are boastful or insensitive; I think it's perfectly reasonable to talk about your holidays if the've brought interesting experiences or insights - I do it myself. One of these friends is a heart surgeon who owns a cottage in Cornwall (bought to facilitate a practice in Truro) which he makes availabe to us all, asking only that we make a donation to charity.

[DaveF]

I was a teacher and had done quite well in terms of career progression, in the last few years I had an interesting job dealing with students on the brink of permanent exclusion.  They came to school 4 days a week from 2 till 7p.m.  On Fridays I did some IT teaching at A level, my other bit of the job was looking after the admin and management software and network.  Outside the core hours I worked as needed.

 

At 55 I decided I could plan retirement, I left as soon as I was 56 with a reduced pension (18 years ago now) - but enough to live on.  I was then offered a job part time looking after the software and recommending staffing, writing the timetable and some finance stuff - which I'd been doing for years anyway.  I was paid for about 2 days a week, the hours were of my choosing, mainly at home.  I put all the money I earned into the bank.  I worked out I saved the school a lot more than they paid me.

 

Then the school had a new headteacher who wanted to tie me down on hours and be in school to do all my work.  I retired straight away at 64 - no extra pension as I had chosen not to pay in to the normal council one for the part time work.

 

I got my old age pension at 65 (reduced because teachers are "opted out"), now I live quietly and enjoy a reasonably simple life.  I can afford my car, if I wanted a holiday I could have one.  I spent several years caring for my Mum, when she died there was a liitle bit of money left plus her flat on a very short lease which I managed to sell.

 

So now I don't worry (much), can do what I like when I like and am involved in activities I never had time for before.

 

David

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

6 hours ago, hayfield said:

Had we been in rented accommodation our circumstances would be very different, so whilst we are careful we feel the struggle (and it was a struggle at times) of buying our own property was well worthwhile

Best move we made, besides staying in the Railway Pension fund. Although we struggled in the early years we will be celebrating 20 years mortgage free at the start of next year.

Our son started by renting but set up a company with his partner when they were made redundant. They bought their property mortgage free at the age of 35.

[alastairq]

Since around 1976 I have owned [on mortgages, I was a mere bus driver!]...my houses......5 marital homes, and a couple of blessed relief [singly] homes, [ a cottage, and a nearly new bungalow]..

However, three divorces later.....[I found my toasters usually lasted between 12 to 15 years.....which is about the interval between actual marriage ceremonies....probably only getting married because I needed a new toaster!]

 

However...as anyone who has undergone divorce will know, property, as an asset, gets 'divided'....

 

So the financial gains of long term property ownership.. kept getting set back.....Thus I wasn't really any better off at the end, than I would have been at the beginning.

Not an issue, except the little matter of 'age'...

There comes a time when one realises that still paying a mortgage at the age of around 75 is really a bit of a bind.

Plus, the sort of property, its location, and what comes with it, meant anything on the market, then or since, has been well out of my price range.

 

I am on my second rented home, and have been here for nearly 10 years!

The place has all the amenities I wanted, wrapped up in one package.  

 

But, it costs.....as I said earlier, roughly just over half my total pension income.

So I probably live [survive?] on roughly 650  month [the State pension arrives every 4 weeks, so one month of the year,  I receive two State pensions.}

 

So forkin' out for some sort of holiday is really out of the question. 

 

I can't even afford the expense of a night in a Premier Inn!   

 

Holidays I have been on have really been for the rest of the family.  When I was still married. 

 

I have taken my son [on the autistic spectrum] for short breaks to some of his favourite places....but only whilst I was actually 'working'....Not since I have ceased work! But then, his Mum has stepped up to the plate.

 

I would ask the question, of ''why'' holidays are such an essential part of life?   What is their real purpose?    As a bus driver, would it have really been a ''holiday'' for me??

 

Mind, at a relatively young age I found myself challenging the very concept of ''career!''

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Best move we made, besides staying in the Railway Pension fund. Although we struggled in the early years we will be celebrating 20 years mortgage free at the start of next year.

Our son started by renting but set up a company with his partner when they were made redundant. They bought their property mortgage free at the age of 35.

 

 

We had no choice when we got married as there were no privately rented housing due to the assured tenancy laws, landlords were selling up when properties became vacant as rents were not enough to cover costs of  housing improvements. No council houses were available to anyone who was not on the council waiting lists and had enough points, you had to have 2 or more children and living in overcrowded accommodation. There was also a mortgage famine at the time, you had to be a long time saver and wait in the queue

 

As it was there was a small supply of properties needing updating, so it was a case of doing up the property before you could live in it. Everyone was in the same boat and we all helped each other

 

People in rented accommodation laughed at us struggling to pay a mortgage, they had better holidays, cars etc

 

Then it was a real struggle when my wife gave up work to look after our daughter whilst she was young, probable the best choice we ever made but financially very hard until the wife got a part time job when our daughter went to junior school.  And still people say we had it easy.

 

I guess every generation has their own difficulties    

[hayfield]

8 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 

I would ask the question, of ''why'' holidays are such an essential part of life?   What is their real purpose?    

 

 

 

What ever situation we have been in we have by hook or crook managed a holiday in some form or another, as my wife felt we both needed a break from everyday life. I must to looking forward to a holiday when we were working. Simply to get away from the stresses of work and whilst not essential when I was self employed it certainly made me stop working

 

Now is a bit different, I don't need a two week break and a couple of short breaks, but I do enjoy a break away doing something different, if its a UK holiday its usually a 2 week holiday somewhere. This year we have a 10 day holiday, staying over night in London then a trip to Tuscany by train.  It is what we were going to do on my/our retirement which covid put a stop to 3 years ago, but we would have gone away and probably have spent nearly as much anyway. Hopefully the Italian restaurant (just to get into the swing of the holiday) on the Euston road is still there for out overnight stay in London, as we have an early Eurostar to catch the next morning. Unlike travelling by plane we both find the train journeys are a real pleasure

[Michael Hodgson]

Hardly been anywhere since covid.

I don't see hanging around airports waiting for delayed flights as a holiday.  Did far too much of that for a living. 

Trip to my brother's in Northern Scotland and maybe drive to a German Xmas market will be about it this year.

[J. S. Bach]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

...snip... Unlike travelling by plane we both find the train journeys are a real pleasure

Obviously, you have not traveled on Amtrak lately!

[BR traction instructor]

Dawn & I have been together for nearly 5 yrs now and agree that our lives by the sea in Cumbria make us very happy/perfectly content, with regular working in the garden or doing hobbies in our home. We have frequent trips away, ranging from a day out walking in the Lake District fells, Scottish borders, north Pennines or Northumberland to overnight stays further out or less frequent week/fortnight holidays to even further flung parts of the UK/Europe. Without question living in coastal NW Cumbria has reduced our desire to spend longer periods away from home and day or part day trips now make up most of our travels.

 

BeRTIe

Edited July 3, 2023 by BR traction instructor