"Living with dignity" in retirement

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

Then it was a real struggle when my wife gave up work to look after our daughter whilst she was young, probable the best choice we ever made but financially very hard until the wife got a part time job when our daughter went to junior school. 

Sounds very much like us. Inflation was massive and gazumping was rife in the property market. Council waiting list was about 15 years unless you were willing to live in a damp, leaking slum property that was to be demolished shortly. We were fortunate to find a flat to buy, in those days they were going on the day they were advertised. I used to walk to the local newspaper offices during each morning and get a copy of the lunchime edition as it came off the press. Straight to the property for sale page and onto the agent of any likely candidate. More often than not someone else had already seen it but I struck lucky and arranged a viewing. We went straight from work and liked it so next morning we were waiting on the agent's doorstep before it opened and got our offer in. No building society was interested in giving what we needed but I managed to get a loan through an insurance company where a relative was a local manager and the young couple we were buying from kept their word on the agreed price. 

When our children were born my wife gave up work for a while before getting a twilight shift job stacking at a local cash and carry. I would do all of the evening chld duties such as baths, stories, etc. At least the job had the opportunity to get bulk packs of groceries at trade prices. She also made up childrens clohes for the local neighbourhood. 

I worked regular weekend shifts and when I got any spare time did painting, decorating and odd jobs for some old ladies locally. I even did my own shoe repairs, some of my ancestors a couple of generations back were shoemakers and I had inherited a few tools of theirs that had remained in the family.

Within seven years we had managed to progress to a nice suburban semi which remained our home until both children were at university. It was hard but we survived and prospered through our own efforts.

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

What ever situation we have been in we have by hook or crook managed a holiday in some form or another, as my wife felt we both needed a break from everyday life.

We managed a holiday most years after the children arrived. When they were old enough some of them used Youth Hostels and then we bought a tent. There were plenty of end to end trips and the children learned how to get by without the normal aids to living. No GPS or mobile phones in those days, you had to know how to find your way using paper maps. Routes were planned and localities researched for p[laces to stop, get shopping and eat. Our youngest had completed the Coast to Coast Walk and Pennine Way by the time she was 13. We then moved on to cycle camping in the West Country and expanded into doing three 1000 mile trips in northern France where we averaged 50 miles per day. Both are tough nuts, very self reliant and made a success of their lives so far.

Nowadays we usually have a couple of week long trips and some shorter breaks where we go three or four days to do specific things.

[Chris M]

I reckon it takes about two years to fully get into being retired. I made a spreadsheet that helped me to work out exactly when I could afford to retire. I finished just before I was 60 and have loved every minute of it, even the Covid years. I’m now 68 so get my state pension and things are fairly ok financially - luckily my spreadsheet was correct.

 

I see a lot of people here moaning about the attitude of government employees. Many many years ago I worked in the driving test bookings office and learned one thing very quickly - a lot of the general public lie. This tends to destroy your faith in human nature over time. For instance someone phoned in to say they couldn’t take their test because they had broken their leg. We said, ok, if you send us a hospital note we will rebook you but if you don’t send it you will lose your test fee. The person turned up,for,their test later that day walking perfectly.  That was just a normal occurrence.

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Obviously, you have not traveled on Amtrak lately!

 

No Eurostar does not go that far yet 

 

Seriously, Any form of train travel in packed coaches would be a strain. To date the method used of pre-booked seats even on full Eurostar trains in our opinion is far superior to air travel. In the main on the Continent most of the services we have been on are not full and after the initial rush catering facilities are not too bad either, the journey is part of the fun.

 

Just hoping the line from the French Alps (Chambery) to Turin has been upgraded (we were told 4 years ago work was underway to improve the infrastructure to increase the speed) so we reach Turin before 8pm, as staling at the hotel Lingotto and would like to have a bit more time to enjoy it before dining, though it is one of the most scenic parts of the journey, which we never get tired of

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

I reckon it takes about two years to fully get into being retired.

 

Aside from not feeling slightly obliged  to turn up for work of a morning, for me, little, if anything changed.  Aside from finances....which, whilst I bumped along the bottom of the socio-economic scale, weren't intolerable.

 

As I got older [into the 40's decade] I soon learnt to 'retire' a soon as my shift finished  Every day.

 

I believe it's about adopting a  certain mindset?  Rather than any practical considerations..

 

Being able to 'play',rather than continually adopting a serious, some would say, ''adult'' frame of mind.

 

Hopefully not taking the 'troubles' of work, home with oneself?

 

In my forties I was well into my 2nd marriage....my wife had undergone Open University stuff [with my assistance, since much dome stick stuff  was then in my court]...and had progressed up a 'career' ladder within the LA Social Services dept....[Principle Officer was her last post]...Bus drivers don't have 'careers'...They have 'jobs'  .

A sign of my immature attitude [2nd or 3rd childhood by then...I'm on my 8th childhood currently] occurred when we went out to look for a 'new' motor car for herself.  [I had my own transport]......Rather than suggesting a sensible family  car from one of the mainstream makers of the time...I showed her an Alfa Romeo!   {A big change from a Nissan!]

 

She actually loved it, and my  childish 'enthusiasm'.....appeared to be infectious.  She found that, driving home at the end of a working day, she could de-stress with it....something a Nissan was patently incapable of allowing.

 

Yup, I guess, as soon as the shift finished, I was in 'retirement' mode. 

It helped to have enthusiasms far  away from the humdrum of 'daily life'...

 

When we eventually parted our ways  [ I was always a bit pragmatic about marriage....no point in pursuing matters if the relationship had ended up going in different directions?]  as a family we looked for a suitable abode to buy, for me...as well as the wife..soon then to be ex-wife.

 

A sign of my renewed childhood came when I visited my favorite estate agent. when asked what i was looking for, I suggested a large garage with a bedroom attached!

Oddly, the estate agent knew exactly what I meant....and soon came up with an ideal property, at a reasonable price [or rather, reasonable mortgage payments for an 'umble bus driver....

 

Even odder, when my soon to be ex #2 found her ideal home, it turned out to be in the same village! Our family home was sold even before it got posted in the estate agent's window.....

 

When I gave up bus driving, and went to work for the MoD, my attitude was, this is a job I could really enjoy doing. I found it easy, especially when I got into the  dark side...every day was a playday for me [unlike some others there]...

 

Having been subject to the political changes of the day [still going on] especially with regards to the military, and civil servants...the first thing I realised was that 'loyalty' was no longer a commodity in the 'workplace!'

 

So I used the system, such as it was, to my own advantage whenever the opportunity presented itself.  Days off, sick leave, etc etc were all milked if I felt like it. Not to get away from 'work' itself, but to suit myself.  The pay was pathetic anyway, thanks to successive Govt policies regarding public servant pay...so I worked on the 'conditions' side of things. Without any qualms whatsoever.

 

If I had ever ceased to actually 'enjoy' what I did as a job, then my 'productivity' would have fallen considerably!   

So, I had, effectively, adopted a 'retirement' frame of mind quite early on....

 

Actually finishing with the 'work' thing at age just over 65, presented little in the way of change for my day to day life.

 

If I don't 'feel' like cutting the grass, I won't!  [If anybody in the village complains, then they can come & cut it themselves...!}

But although I do cut my grass, I don;t feel any compulsion to do so.

[AndyB]

I've not read the Guardian article but the DT reprints something similar every few weeks.  

 

And on those occasions the consensus in the comments section seems to be that the financial whizzkid who came up with the numbers was defining comfort at a whole new level to what most readers expected. "Comfortable" included "several European or long-haul holidays each year". To most readers that'd count as luxury/fantasy 

 

One thing not mentioned so far has been setting up pensions for your children (or grandchildren). Obviously tough when you're a new parent unless you have a very well-paid job with surplus income. But perhaps easier when they are in their teens.

 

The logic is that a modest, regular saving each month over, say, 5 or 6 decades will accumulate a tidy sum (don't forget to adjust for inflation taking a slice of the eventual purchasing power). It also gets them into the idea of saving if you make it a joint venture. And unlike investments taken out later in life a different level of risk can be taken as there's time to recover if you make the wrong investment. 

 

A potential downside is that the investment can't be accessed until your child is 55. So you may well not see the investment mature. But you'll certainly know its in track and your kids have some security.  

 

[Oldddudders]

15 hours ago, hayfield said:

I guess every generation has their own difficulties    

Indeed it does. After all, my parents, probably yours, had a chap called Hitler making life darned difficult in all sorts of ways.  The late '40s were peaceful but no-one had any money, '50s were austere, and the soft life of the late '60s turned pretty nasty in the '70s at times, culminating in 17% mortgage rates in 1979. 

 

The current bind, hitting many families really hard, has all sorts of double-whammies, like childcare costs increasing in line with everything else - yet many families rely upon a second income to pay the mortgage, the cars and the annual holiday. 

 

We who have passed beyond employment and mortgages are widely called the Golden Generation, having apparently had it easy. But this thread shows not everyone received their crock of gold. 

[hayfield]

I also have to own up in the end of my last job playing by the rules for MY benefit

 

I joined the company after 29 years of being self employed, often my manager would kick me out of the door at the end of my shift, as if I had not finished my task I would carry on. This work ethic whilst I stayed at the branch, one hot summer we had an issue with the chillers, I would come in voluntary at weekends on my days off for half an hour to clear the machines, this went on for a few weeks, but the management as well as paying me overtime gave me £200 to take the wife out for a meal, after 6 years and after being hospitalised for a short period we moved from Hertfordshire to Essex, to be nearer our daughter and to downsize, to my amazement just before I left the branch manager as well as arranging my transfer to an Essex branch gave me a massive pay rise.

 

As far as the pay rise was concerned it was very far sighted as the senior management at the branch was quite different, as it happened my work ethic stayed the same. I had a specific job which I was left to get on with, I was managed by not being managed and my direct managers were more like friends.

 

This all changed in the last two years with the arrival of a new branch manager, this coincided with me having a small operation and having to be eased back into work. The whole atmosphere in the branch changed, thankfully I was not part of the management structure, as the junior managers were put under severe pressure.  My contract stipulated I would be paid in full for up to 6mths through illness, for the first 9 years I was off for 2 or 3 days in total, 2 years prior to my retirement I needed a minor operation, I was signed off both before and after the opp (8 or 12 weeks) then eased back into work on light duties and restricted hours for 3 weeks. I then had to attend a back to work meeting which the manager conducting it was constantly apologising as it was designed for those abusing the self certification system, I was also put on notice for those who had 3 or more sickness periods within a year or been off for more than 3% of the working year (I had been signed off by the hospital) but verbally told in my case this would not be invoked.  The fact that in 9 years 3 days sickness counted for nothing really annoyed me

 

Whilst for my supervisor I would do anything I thought why should I bother, my reporting manager changed to one who worked in a different department and our shift patterns slightly overlapped.  He was just a yes man for senior management, had no idea what I did or how I performed, for the last 6 months we never spoke to each other. It was this last 2 years where I worked to rule. If they left me alone I would get on with it and my supervisor was more than happy with what I did ( which happened to be a lot more than anyone who covered for me on my days off) but she knew if they annoyed me I would play the invalid card ( my light duties requirement was never removed) As it happens as far as sickness was concerned I never missed a day, however when covid came in medically I was required to stay at home and retired 3 months early on full pay up to my retirement date.

 

I really felt sorry for junior management, most of whom were under pressure of being managed out of the company, sadly most were the better managers with the tick box managers who contributed less to productivity seemingly unaffected. Not surprising that the company is now performing badly. But talking to those in both the public and private sectors its the same everywhere  

[hayfield]

51 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Indeed it does. After all, my parents, probably yours, had a chap called Hitler making life darned difficult in all sorts of ways.  The late '40s were peaceful but no-one had any money, '50s were austere, and the soft life of the late '60s turned pretty nasty in the '70s at times, culminating in 17% mortgage rates in 1979. 

 

The current bind, hitting many families really hard, has all sorts of double-whammies, like childcare costs increasing in line with everything else - yet many families rely upon a second income to pay the mortgage, the cars and the annual holiday. 

 

We who have passed beyond employment and mortgages are widely called the Golden Generation, having apparently had it easy. But this thread shows not everyone received their crock of gold. 

 

 

My one granddaughter who has a child works for herself part time having given up her full time job prior to her giving birth to her daughter, her and her husband do both work hard, as at weekends he helps her in her new venture,

 

They have just downsized in house value from a £900,000 property to something a bit cheaper (not bad for a 30 year old)  But they graft.

 

 

[Reorte]

I should probably pay more attention to pensions than I should (especially since my employer is currently talking about screwing over the reasonably decent scheme I'm currently in). I'm rather too far through my 40s than I'd like to be, but I've no plans for early retirement. Ideally I'd like to go part time instead though; I'd be aiming for that for after I've paid off the mortgage except it'll probably mess up the pension.

[cessna152towser]

17 minutes ago, hayfield said:

They have just downsized in house value from a £900,000 property to something a bit cheaper (not bad for a 30 year old)  But they graft.

Wow!   I bought my first house in 1978 at age 27, three bedroomed semi with a sea view, for £16,000, with a £3,000 deposit and £13,000 mortgage.    Now I'm in my seventies and retired and free from mortgage, I recently had my current house valued as part of the plan to sort out my affairs, and the valuation came up at £100,000.   A lot depends on where your career ends when you retire, some of us live in cheaper areas of the British Isles, which does have its advantages for younger people moving into the area if only we could offer them local employment.   My sympathies go to any young couple who would need to find £900,000 to be housed suitably near to their place of work.

Edited July 3, 2023 by cessna152towser

[Reorte]

4 minutes ago, cessna152towser said:

Wow!   I bought my first house in 1978 at age 27, three bedroomed semi with a sea view, for £16,000, with a £3,000 deposit and £13,000 mortgage.    Now I'm in my seventies and retired and free from mortgage, I recently had my current house valued as part of the plan to sort out my affairs, and the valuation came up at £100,000.   A lot depends on where your career ends when you retire, some of us live in cheaper areas of the British Isles, which does have its advantages for younger people moving into the area if only we could offer them local employment.   My sympathies go to any young couple who would need to find £900,000 to be housed suitably near to their place of work.

£13000 in 1978 comes out as £83,118.28 in May this year (most recent it'll go up to) according to the Bank of England's inflation calculator.

 

£100000 for a 3-bed semi seems very low these days.

[62613]

On 30/06/2023 at 18:25, The Johnster said:

You are of course  entitled to your opinion, but I'd venture to suggest you've never attended a PIP (previously DLA) assessment or appeal with a mental health issue, allegedly recognised by the Department as a disability and entitlement to benefit, then.  'Can you prepare a meal?', well, no reason I physically can't of course, except that I can't face getting out of bed today because there's no point in anything, Black Dog Day.  'Can you go to local shops and purchase food?, yes, of course I can you idiot, I'm not a cripple, except that my agoraphobia and social anxiety disorder mean that I haven't been able to go out of my front door for the last three weeks.  'Well, you came here today, didn't you?', well, yes I did because if I didn't you were threatening to stop my money, and I needed this support worker to drive me and accompany me in order to do so, and I'm under pretty extreme duress at the moment.  'Well, you seem to be coping very well, Mr.Richards'.  What do you want me to do, have a complete meltdown in the interview room, so you can call security and have me ejected (coz I know you're not going to do what you should do and have me sectioned, actual mental health care is not available unless you are in the process of committing suicide or murder)?  Nice try, not biting. 'Can you wash your clothes in a washing machine' (these are all questions on the form and will be asked in interviews, don't worry, your tax £££ are safe from scroungers like me), yeah, but why bother, everybody hates me anyway because I'm rubbish and do not deserve to be liked, what's the point? Of anything?  Do you have any concept of what neurotic clinical depression as a result of a brain tumour actually is in practical terms for a human being suffering from it, and am I justified in assuming that you should given the job you're failing to do?

 

These are the wonderful people who will offer you a cup of water and then cancel your benefit because you walked 6 feet across the room to take it from them, therefore you have proved that you have full mobility. 

 

Dignity my *rse.

 

I once volunteered as an advice worker in a centre for people with mental issues, and as part of the training sat in as an observer on a benefit appeal.  It had a magistrate, a DHSS official, and a Trade Union officer on a panel, and the appeal was successful; the Department owed the claimant a significantly large amount of money in unpaid benefit, over £20k and this was thirty years ago.  A discussion amongst the panel took place sotto voce (but my hearing wasn't bad in those days) along the lines of 'we can't pay him this in a lump sum, he'll only spend it in the bookies (he probably did, but it was his money), can't we do it in installments'.  The Trade Union guy pointed out that it was rightfully the claimant's money, which had been denied to him by a Departmental 'mistake' (yeah, right, but let's give 'em the benefit of the doubt even though they do their best not to give us the benefit of the, um, benefit) and he was fully entitled to it, and it should therefore be paid out immedieately as further withholding of it would have been unlawful, so it was paid out in the form of a giro that had to be paid into a bank account; the claimant of course did not have a bank account and actually cashed it at a mendacious chiseller jpawnbroker's, losing about £4k in the process.  This was not an eyeopener, it was exactly what I'd expected.  The system in full action, dignity my *rse...

 

As my somewhat snobbish mum would have said, 'and they've all got cars and colour tvs, you know'.  Have they, mum, have they?

 

I do agree that we're all doomed, though.

 

 

 

 

How long ago was that? It's certainly been the case since 2011, after Mr Duncan - Smith's new bill. In my line of work, I paid occasional visits to the local jobcentre (between contracts), and the staff were helpful; they knew a job in my skill field would come along sooner or later. I got to know one or two of them personally, and had conversations with them when we saw each other in the local supermarket. One in particular left in 2012; after the passing of the 2011 act, she said, they imported a manager from another local jobcentre and the whole atmosphere changed. The interview which Daniel Blake had to go through inthe film, was entirely typical of what goes on in today's jobcentre; the idea is to try and withold as much as possible from claimants, and hope they don't have advocates to fight for their rights.

 

Sorry for the rant; It's something I feel very strongly about

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Indeed it does. After all, my parents, probably yours, had a chap called Hitler making life darned difficult in all sorts of ways.  The late '40s were peaceful but no-one had any money, '50s were austere, and the soft life of the late '60s turned pretty nasty in the '70s at times, culminating in 17% mortgage rates in 1979.

 

 

 

SuperMac's famous slogan of the late 50s was probably justified when you think about how things had been in the 20s, 30s and 40s

 

 

[tomparryharry]

On 01/07/2023 at 23:33, The Johnster said:

 

Drop me a PM if you're ever in the Cardiff Area, Andy, we'll meet up somewhere for a pub lunch and I'll be more than happy to accommodate your desire to hear about meagre amounts...

 

I would say there is a difference between socialising with friends and having 'friends' that exploit opportunites to display conspicuous consumption at your expense.  Your 'friends' sound to me to be definitely in the latter category, and perhaps you should seek the company of people who are more deserving of it.  I certainly have chums and acquaintances who are millionaires or not far off it (not an unusual achievement these days), and while some of them go on several foriegn hollys every year, live nicely in decent sized houses, run posh cars, and in one case a light aircraft*,  they do not seem to be insecure enough to feel the need to talk about it much, and don't behave like this at all; I wouldn't spend time with them if they did! 

 

 

*'Biggles' does talk about flying a lot, but, then, it's his hobby and passion, and I talk about model trains a lot, so fair enough!  He even grew a handlebar moustache!

Vote #2 from here. 

 

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, cessna152towser said:

Wow!   I bought my first house in 1978 at age 27, three bedroomed semi with a sea view, for £16,000, with a £3,000 deposit and £13,000 mortgage.    Now I'm in my seventies and retired and free from mortgage, I recently had my current house valued as part of the plan to sort out my affairs, and the valuation came up at £100,000.   A lot depends on where your career ends when you retire, some of us live in cheaper areas of the British Isles, which does have its advantages for younger people moving into the area if only we could offer them local employment.   My sympathies go to any young couple who would need to find £900,000 to be housed suitably near to their place of work.

 

 

A bit of help with hubbies side of the family, her first home was a wing of a local Mansion her husband bought as a (very) small business partner with his uncle, him being a first time buyer was of great assistance, this gave them a great start and benefited everyone involved.

 

The other Granddaughter lives in a far more modest 2 bed property, but in a very nice area. Still much better start than we had and little if any help from anyone. To us both have large mortgages, but then our early mortgages were very large to our grandparents. Nothing changes

[Reorte]

56 minutes ago, hayfield said:

... To us both have large mortgages, but then our early mortgages were very large to our grandparents. Nothing changes

They'll always look very large simply because of general inflation, but clearly house prices can't rise constantly above the rate of inflation forever - one of the big reasons mortgages look very large at the moment is because they are, even when accounting for inflation. The average house price to average wage ratio is terrible these days, which is why a return to what are quite honestly pretty ordinary interest rates is causing so much trouble for people.

[kevinlms]

4 minutes ago, Reorte said:

They'll always look very large simply because of general inflation, but clearly house prices can't rise constantly above the rate of inflation forever - one of the big reasons mortgages look very large at the moment is because they are, even when accounting for inflation. The average house price to average wage ratio is terrible these days, which is why a return to what are quite honestly pretty ordinary interest rates is causing so much trouble for people.

It's the same problem in Australia. House prices have risen by well beyond inflation for years. So a new home loan is for far more times annual salary than it used to be.

 

But for this topic, I'm going to make a final payment on our mortgage, within the next 10 days.

[hayfield]

19 minutes ago, Reorte said:

They'll always look very large simply because of general inflation, but clearly house prices can't rise constantly above the rate of inflation forever - one of the big reasons mortgages look very large at the moment is because they are, even when accounting for inflation. The average house price to average wage ratio is terrible these days, which is why a return to what are quite honestly pretty ordinary interest rates is causing so much trouble for people.

 

 

The main protagonist's of higher house prices are the property developers and the so called incentives they offer buyers.  Also house valuations tend to go on what previous similar houses sold for, with some new houses not the net sale price.

 

Also after the last property crisis banks changed the loan criteria  from gross income to affordability, the trouble is when interest rates are low people can afford to borrow more. Chickens coming home to roost. Still like most of my age we benefitted by downsizing, but straight away most of our disposable savings went on a big extension and remodelling our property, still we have a house designed for us 

[33C]

I understand that the borrowing of the government coupled with the interest on the national debt is linked to the overall collateral worth of the country's assets. So, if you can say a house is NOW worth close on £1,500,000 the country can borrow more against it. Times that by the country's entire housing, industrial and civilian infrastructure and we are keeping our heads above water collectively. So, imagine if you wanted to pay what a house is ACTUALLY worth, plot, bricks, mortar, country's in the shite. Everybody's paying, 1% win. Scandalous. 

[woodenhead]

@hayfield what has also driven the market prices are the combined forces of Buy to Let landlords and absent owners from abroad simply buying up property as somewhere to fence money.

 

It's hard for individual buyers to compete against commercial or absent purchasers where the cost of the purchase matters less because it will be passed on to the tenant (causing spiralling rental costs) or they have more money than they know what to do with it.

[Bernard Lamb]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Indeed it does. After all, my parents, probably yours, had a chap called Hitler making life darned difficult in all sorts of ways.  The late '40s were peaceful but no-one had any money, '50s were austere, and the soft life of the late '60s turned pretty nasty in the '70s at times, culminating in 17% mortgage rates in 1979. 

 

The current bind, hitting many families really hard, has all sorts of double-whammies, like childcare costs increasing in line with everything else - yet many families rely upon a second income to pay the mortgage, the cars and the annual holiday. 

 

We who have passed beyond employment and mortgages are widely called the Golden Generation, having apparently had it easy. But this thread shows not everyone received their crock of gold. 

Just Hitler?

The UK was lucky.

My mother in law would say that she put up with, and saw the end of, The Kaiser, Hitler and Erich Honecker and his bosses in Moscow. None of them, or anything that could come after them, was going to change her way of life. Very much a case of two fingers up to the lot of them. Head down and carry on.

Bernard

[alastairq]

My first property purchase, at age 25, married, two earners [wife was a nurse...a psyche nurse, how appropriate for me?] , was a brand spankers new build, 2 bed semi , one lounge/diner, no garage, but it had a driveway of sorts   [bought before it was built, actually] for £6950. [Mid 1970's]

 

On what at the time was a nicely spread out, almost rural, estate..or rather, building site.

Mortgages were worked out depending on income...2 1/2 times one wage, plus the other.

As a bus driver, I earned slightly more than my wife, as a nurse.

Even so, with a 10  % deposit, we were still shy of the total amount needed.  So we had to take advantage of a LA scheme whereby additional mortgage amounts were added to 'top up'......after certain criteria had been proven.

 

What a pfaffing carry-on when compared to the turn of this centrity, where banks and BSs were only too happy to throw money my way!

 

In the space of 3 1/2 years the 'value ' of that first house almost, but not quite, doubled.  Handy at the time as it meant we could just about move to a three bed semi just around the corner.

Then came divorce #1!

{ The one & only time I got divorced using a solicitor..... Bit of a titewad, me, in reality]

 

After the division of assets, and fees, I could barely scrape together the deposit for the cheapest ancient 2 bed terrace cottage I could find, way out on a village [where values were lower than in a town]!

I got a mortgage based on my income as a bus driver...then came the first of a few  redundancies I underwent [and fought].  [Damned Thatcher at it ]...

 

So it all started all over again, repeat as required.

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Just Hitler?

The UK was lucky.

My mother in law would say that she put up with, and saw the end of, The Kaiser, Hitler and Erich Honecker and his bosses in Moscow. None of them, or anything that could come after them, was going to change her way of life. Very much a case of two fingers up to the lot of them. Head down and carry on.

Bernard

Pretty much the same attitude as  most of those who have seen the back of Harold, Ted, Maggie, Tony, Gordon, Theresa, Boris & Liz (and a few others) 😆

[AndyB]

I think we're straying into the "p" word a bit, now.

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, AndyB said:

I think we're straying into the "p" word a bit, now.

Straying?

The OP was about the definition and relevance of an emotive term. By the very nature of the source it was going to be political with a small p.

I thought we were rocking along and all was sweetness and light, even though people had very different experiences.

I feel it is shame you feel the need to add that comment.

Personally I have found all posts interesting and it has opened my eyes to some aspects of the modern world that are knew to me.

Bernard