Unusual and interesting coaches on Flickr

[coronach]

53 minutes ago, keefer said:

Opposite (corridor) side of W1770E at Newton Abbot:

W1770E_NewtonAbbot_12-9-70 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

This must have been at the very end of its operating life. I think there were a few ex GW sleeping cars operating until the end of the 60s. Maybe this was transferred as a substitute vehicle to cover a withdrawal 

[Flood]

49 minutes ago, coronach said:

This must have been at the very end of its operating life. I think there were a few ex GW sleeping cars operating until the end of the 60s. Maybe this was transferred as a substitute vehicle to cover a withdrawal 

According to Longworth, E1770E went to the Western 11/65 and was withdrawn 11/70.

[pete_mcfarlane]

13 hours ago, coronach said:

Wouldn’t it be fascinating to have access to a list of pre nationalisation passenger vehicles that remained in service after 1967. The RCTS lists show that at the end of 1971, there remained in service a handful of Pullman cars in the southern, several ex LNER buffet cars and the LMS sleeping cars that remained in service until the mid 70s. 

Most of the Wagon-Lits F class sleeping cars that worked the Night Ferry were also pre-nationalisation - being built in several batches (1935, 1945, 1952). They lasted until 1980, which probably makes them the last 'pre-nationalisation' coaching stock in regular use in the UK. 

 

 

 

[coronach]

3 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Most of the Wagon-Lits F class sleeping cars that worked the Night Ferry were also pre-nationalisation - being built in several batches (1935, 1945, 1952). They lasted until 1980, which probably makes them the last 'pre-nationalisation' coaching stock in regular use in the UK. 

 

 

 

Yes, they would be. Interestingly, they aren’t shown in the RCTS stock book.  Do you have details of them?

 

My grammar school in York participated in a language exchange programme with schools in Dijon. Although the organisers made arrangements for transport by coach and ship, my Dad decided that he would take me by train on the Night Ferry - 1977. 
We changed trains at Doncaster, caught the afternoon Hull Pullman to Kings Cross paying a 50p supplement and headed for Victoria for the departure at about 10pm I think.

I have an image of in my minds eye of the twin sleeping compartment as seen from from the bottom bunk - chrome fittings and a yellow melamine decor.
 

It was early spring and there were only three or four sleeping cars in the train. 
 

I remember being shunted onto the train ferry at Dover, loud voices and  and the sounds of the vehicles being chained to the deck of the ship. The compartment was very warm - I think each vehicle was heated by an anthracite stove but I might be wrong.

 

Fascinating to wake in the morning approaching Paris on SNCF infrastructure - at that time every station has an operating goods yard. So different to the UK. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by coronach

[Wickham Green too]

7 hours ago, coronach said:

Yes, they would be. Interestingly, they aren’t shown in the RCTS stock book.  Do you have details of them? ...

You'll find full details in  https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/night-ferry/product/HD_301494138?pscid=ps_ggl_OOS+-+Performance+Max+-+ROAS+(All+products)_&crm_event_code=20REUWWS08&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhJ3MidKLgQMVTO3tCh2gHgxhEAQYAyABEgKUiPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds ..... though there might find cheaper copies if you don't want to support Oxfam !

[coronach]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

You'll find full details in  https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/night-ferry/product/HD_301494138?pscid=ps_ggl_OOS+-+Performance+Max+-+ROAS+(All+products)_&crm_event_code=20REUWWS08&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhJ3MidKLgQMVTO3tCh2gHgxhEAQYAyABEgKUiPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds ..... though there might find cheaper copies if you don't want to support Oxfam !

Thank you for the link. I’ve ordered the book. 

[montyburns56]

Breakdown Train Unit - Relief (Staff) DS70121 at Eastleigh - c.1970. Converted from Maunsell CK S5595S built for the S&DJR in 1929 to Diag 2304; modified to BTU use in 1963, scrapped at Kings Norton on site by T.M.I. Metals July 1996."

"

 

 

 

[Rugd1022]

On 01/09/2023 at 09:42, coronach said:

Wouldn’t it be fascinating to have access to a list of pre nationalisation passenger vehicles that remained in service after 1967. The RCTS lists show that at the end of 1971, there remained in service a handful of Pullman cars in the southern, several ex LNER buffet cars and the LMS sleeping cars that remained in service until the mid 70s. 
 

 

 

Somewhere in my hard drive are a couple of b&w photos of non-BR Sleeper vehicles inside the carriage shed at Old Oak c.1970, I'll have a trawl tomorrow and see if I can find them.

[hmrspaul]

3 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Breakdown Train Unit - Relief (Staff) DS70121 at Eastleigh - c.1970. Converted from Maunsell CK S5595S built for the S&DJR in 1929 to Diag 2304; modified to BTU use in 1963, scrapped at Kings Norton on site by T.M.I. Metals July 1996."

"

 

 

 

Later, repainted, it was in the Stewarts Lane breakdown train https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srdepartmentalcoach/e24ddaf7a

 

Paul

[Wickham Green too]

16 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

... Maunsell CK S5595S built for the S&DJR in 1929 to Diag 2304; ...

Where did that silly idea come from - like all 'Restriction 0' Maunsells it was built for London, Bexhill & Hastings services and was initially the centre car of three-set 478 ( with Brake Thirds 3678/9 ) .... by 1935 it had been replaced by First 7403 and ran 'loose' before joining set 937 in 1958.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Wickham Green too
set 937

[Compound2632]

On 31/08/2023 at 16:57, montyburns56 said:

M932M

 

 

That's a rather splendid vehicle. It's a Midland D542 Family Saloon, one of ten built in 1908/9 to Lot 644. Originally numbered 2934, this one went into the Midland'd Royal Train in 1912 as an Equerries' Saloon, thereby avoiding the indignity of conversion to a Picnic Saloon which befell its siblings in 1926. It was converted in May 1926 as an Inspection Saloon based at Derby; this will, I assume, be when it gained its end widows and lost its gangway. Officially withdrawn in March 1961. 

 

The carriage beyond it, with open end, is equally if not more interesting, being the D543 Officers' Inspecting Saloon of 1908, converted (and lengthened) from a six-wheel Directors' Inspecting saloon of 1888.

 

I think, but I'm not quite sure, that the furthest carriage may be a D454 First Class Sleeping Carriage of lot 661 built in 1907, seen from the corridor side, but I've failed to find that one went into departmental use.

 

Ref. Lacy & Dow, Midland Railway Carriages Vol. 2 (Wild Swan, 1986); Jenkinson & Essery, Midland Carriages: an Illustrated Review (OPC, 1984).

Edited September 4, 2023 by Compound2632

[Rugd1022]

Well I've searched my bulging hard rive and not found those Sleeper pics, but I did come across this one of prototype FO W3081 in the carriage shed at Old Oak on 2nd August 1970...

 

 

 

 

 

[Moxy]

32 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That's a rather splendid vehicle. It's a Midland D542 Family Saloon, one of ten built in 1908/9 to Lot 644. Originally numbered 2934, this one went into the Midland'd Royal Train in 1912 as an Equerries' Saloon, thereby avoiding the indignity of conversion to a Picnic Saloon which befell its siblings in 1926. It was converted in May 1926 as an Inspection Saloon based at Derby; this will, I assume, be when it gained its end widows and lost its gangway. Officially withdrawn in March 1961. 

 

The carriage beyond it, with open end, is equally if not more interesting, being the D543 Officers' Inspecting Saloon of 1908, converted (and lengthened) from a six-wheel Directors' Inspecting saloon of 1888.

 

I think, but I'm not quite sure, that the furthest carriage may be a D454 First Class Sleeping Carriage of lot 661 built in 1907, seen from the corridor side, but I've failed to find that one went into departmental use.

 

Ref. Lacy & Dow, Midland Railway Carriages Vol. 2 (Wild Swan, 1986); Jenkinson & Essery, Midland Carriages: an Illustrated Review (OPC, 1984).

 

Thank you for the information on that coach, I wondered what it was when it was first posted.  I did wonder if had Midland origins, but all my reference materials is from the LMS period & later.  As you say, it is a splendid vehicle.

[hmrspaul]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

I think, but I'm not quite sure, that the furthest carriage may be a D454 First Class Sleeping Carriage of lot 661 built in 1907, seen from the corridor side, but I've failed to find that one went into departmental use.

 

Sleepers don't have to be transferred to the engineers to be working with them. Many years later this example W2423 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmark1/e491ff486 was working with DB901202 [DR82201] in 1984 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brviaductinspection/e214c0d45 

 

Paul

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Sleepers don't have to be transferred to the engineers to be working with them. Many years later this example W2423 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmark1/e491ff486 was working with DB901202 [DR82201] in 1984 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brviaductinspection/e214c0d45 

 

Ex-Midland sleeping carriages were mostly withdrawn in 1927, according to Lacy & Dow. But they go on to say"Their bodies must have been sound enough, however, for some lasted in departmental use for another 40 years or more. DM 198619, for example, a 65 ft vehicle with a 1906 plate, was so observed in 1965."

 

I don't think the one in the photo is DM 198619 though, the pattern of corridor windows suggests it is a 54 ft 8-wheeler rather than a 65 ft 12-wheeler.

[Rugd1022]

Another random find from my hard drive, no idea of the source : Gresley Sleeper 1st E1211E, location and date unknown... how many of these made it into blue & grey...?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DOCJACOB]

28 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

Another random find from my hard drive, no idea of the source : Gresley Sleeper 1st E1211E, location and date unknown... how many of these made it into blue & grey...?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That will be at Boat of Garten in early preservation days of Strathspey Railway  I posted image of same coach in teak from 1978 earlier in this thread so suspect above pre-dates this. Possibly soon after withdrawal from BR & pretty sure was unique in blue and grey. 
 

Think was volunteer accommodation for a while?? 
 

Currently at Bo’ness SRPS and looking much better with a bit of TLC & a paint job. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by DOCJACOB
Extra info

[montyburns56]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

Another random find from my hard drive, no idea of the source : Gresley Sleeper 1st E1211E, location and date unknown... how many of these made it into blue & grey...?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't you mean how many made it into blue, grey & teak? 😉

[montyburns56]

M33691 Stove

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

M33691 Stove

 

An ex-Highland Railway vehicle. (That's as much as I know.)

[Rugd1022]

A freeze frame from some footage shot for an episode of 'The Saint' in late 1965 near Carpenders Park, with a Class 40 heading south on the up fast hauling an early Mk2 1st in maroon...

 

 

Ex-LMS 12 wheeler Sleepers going for scrap, possibly Cohens in Kettering...

 

 

An ebay find, ex-LMS Sleeper M604M and another at Euston in 1973... in hindsight I wish I'd paid more attention to things like this on numerous visits to Wolverton Works as a kid...

 

 

Thompson BG at Craigintinny in 1975...

 

 

Bar Car E1883 at Stalybridge in 1980...

 

 

Cinema coach pairing at (I think) Vauxhall...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Waterloo, rather than Vauxhall.

 

I wasn’t overly switched on to carriages in the early 70s either, but I do recall the LMS sleepers because they were easy to distinguish by the recessed door handles. Coaches must have dawned on me at some stage, because I did make a pilgrimage* to ride in a Gresley Buffet car, out behind a 37 from Liverpool Street, and back in the buffet car to K+ behind a 31, or the other way round. Then c1975, I got an RCTS coaching stock book, but it was becoming a bit late by then.

* think that was the trip I funded by restoring and selling an old wheelbarrow that I got from the dump. Pumped the tyre up, cursory de-rust with a wire brush, tin of Woolworths green enamel (badly applied and left the brush to go hard without cleaning), and sold it for enough to pay for a return to Cambridge.

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Rugd1022]

Another ex-LMS Sleeper, M609M at Carlisle Kingmoor in July 1977...

 

 

Pullman Nightcap Bar M310E...

 

 

Another ex- LMS Sleeper M392M at Wolverton...

 

 

Mk1 Bullion Car W99203 at Clapham Junction Yard in December 1977...

 

 

Ex- LNER Sleeper NE1760E...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sitham Yard]

20 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

An ex-Highland Railway vehicle. (That's as much as I know.)

From Historic Carriage Drawings Volume 3 by Peter Tatlow page 15. Rebuilt by the HR from post office mail van in 1919. Panelling removed and replaced in the then current HR fashion of vertical match boarding with the addition of guards lookouts. The book has another two photos (different photographers) of this vehicle at Birmingham New Street , one of which is dated 5th May 1954.

Andrew     

[Rugd1022]

Found that Sleeper car at Old Oak I was looking for earlier, it's a Thompson rather than an LMS one, W1879E in the carriage shed on 2nd August 1970...