London Bridge (at the end of the 20thC)

[Oldddudders]

Dare I ask about the signalbox? This was built 1973-5, commissioned in 1976. 

[grahame]

This one? Don't they call it a power box these days?

 

 

Or the station announcers kiosk? Which I understand people mistake for a signal box.

 

 

But both will feature, although I do need to get the models finished. The power box is reduced in scale length, even in N/2mm it would be massively long and I've only a little shed. Although at over 12" long it's probably one of the biggest signal/power boxes I've seen in N gauge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by grahame

[Oldddudders]

They possibly refer to the 'box as an IECC - Integrated Electronic Control Centre - but it still does the same job. Those air-conditioners on the roof were a Godsend soon after it first opened, in the hot summer of 1976. As well as looking after GECs kit, it kept the operations floor cool. I was a supernumerary Traffic Regulator for a few months then, while the operations settled down.

 

As for the Eastern Announcers' Cabin, this had cladding attached, which the Inspecting Officer decided made it out of gauge....

[phil_sutters]

15 hours ago, grahame said:

Yes, Guys hospital tower won't be included on my layout. It's just on the wrong side of St Thomas Street which is the front edge boundary of the layout. It's even taller than the two tower blocks that are included, although both of those have since been demolished, and would be huge as a model.

 

Building the layout is great fun although with so much to do I wish I had more time to spend on it.

 

 

Prior to The Shard's arrival Guy's (hospital) Tower was by far the tallest building in the area.

The municipal occupants have since decamped from the City Hall building to a less expensive location. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by phil_sutters

[grahame]

On 19/08/2023 at 23:10, phil_sutters said:

Prior to The Shard's arrival Guy's (hospital) Tower was by far the tallest building in the area.

 

 

Note in this pic that Southwark Towers has gone (at 328ft was jointly the tallest building in the UK to be demolished) but that New London Bridge House is still standing, although for not much longer. At 309ft tall it was taken down in 2010.

 

[njee20]

If you need help with things like decorative wagon wheels Grahame feel free to drop me a PM - trivial to 3D print things like that, and I’d be happy to help out!

 

Having only been a user of London Bridge since 2011 I had no idea Guildable Manor Street (what a name) was formerly a shopping street, fascinating!

[grahame]

As well as the mods to New London Bridge House, I've needed to make a few alterations to the building site model and the other side of Joiner Street next to Southwark Towers. Joiner Street used to go under the station from St Thomas Street to Tooley Street. Another similar road under the station was Stainer Street that ran parallel but that is now just a pedestrian walkway after the station re-building. I don't think Joiner street even exists anymore.

 

[tjf4375]

I spent a few minutes this evening on Google maps getting my bearings and I have to say you've done an amazing job with this. Even though the area has changed considerably since the 80s, the buildings that have survived are instantly recognisable on your model. I see the building site and the modern block over the road are pretty much where the Shard now stands! Fascinating stuff :)

[phil_sutters]

14 hours ago, njee20 said:

If you need help with things like decorative wagon wheels Grahame feel free to drop me a PM - trivial to 3D print things like that, and I’d be happy to help out!

 

Having only been a user of London Bridge since 2011 I had no idea Guildable Manor Street (what a name) was formerly a shopping street, fascinating!

This is the only snap I have of the shops in the approaches to the station. Sorry about the graffiti. It's out of period as well - 2015.

[grahame]

8 hours ago, tjf4375 said:

I spent a few minutes this evening on Google maps getting my bearings and I have to say you've done an amazing job with this. Even though the area has changed considerably since the 80s, the buildings that have survived are instantly recognisable on your model. I see the building site and the modern block over the road are pretty much where the Shard now stands! Fascinating stuff :)

 

Thanks.

 

At one time during the station re-building it seemed like as fast as I was researching and making the models, the developers were tearing down the real buildings -  the two tower blocks, SER offices, Fielden house, the old tube station entrance building, two shop rows in Boro High Street to put the new bridge in and so on. And before that it was the 'More London' development that saw Dominion House, Battlebridge House, and shops and pubs in Tooley Street eradicated.  Apparently Colechurch House is now slated for redevelopment.

 

 

 

 

[The Lurker]

5 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Thanks.

 

At one time during the station re-building it seemed like as fast as I was researching and making the models, the developers were tearing down the real buildings -  the two tower blocks, SER offices, Fielden house, the old tube station entrance building, two shop rows in Boro High Street to put the new bridge in and so on. And before that it was the 'More London' development that saw Dominion House, Battlebridge House, and shops and pubs in Tooley Street eradicated.  Apparently Colechurch House is now slated for redevelopment.

 

 

 

 

Colechurch House currently has a bar on the top floor which can be very nice in the sun...but you have to pre-book. It doesn't look very promising (rather like the whole building).

 

I used to work in the Cottons Centre which I can see is set too far back to be in your Tooley Street scene. But was the "sky bridge" over Tooley Street in period? It's gone now but not sure when it was built and the aerial shot you posted was not clear enough for me to spot it. Now they've moved us to the News Building

 

The buildings you have built really capture the scene, even now after all the development in the area, this thread feels a little like looking out of the window

[tjf4375]

On 23/08/2023 at 07:49, grahame said:

 

Thanks.

 

At one time during the station re-building it seemed like as fast as I was researching and making the models, the developers were tearing down the real buildings -  the two tower blocks, SER offices, Fielden house, the old tube station entrance building, two shop rows in Boro High Street to put the new bridge in and so on. And before that it was the 'More London' development that saw Dominion House, Battlebridge House, and shops and pubs in Tooley Street eradicated.  Apparently Colechurch House is now slated for redevelopment.

 

 

 

 

I'm not surprised to hear that, as London Bridge seems to be in a perpetual state of change, and has been for decades. There are always hoardings and scaffolding up somewhere, and some major construction project underway. That said, I was massively impressed by the works to the station and platforms - I think it's a huge improvement over the old one but I'd be interested to know what regular commuters think! 

[mullie]

When I first became a head of music in Essex during 1999 we appointed an excellent second in dept who had come up from Cardiff to take the job. He had been to London a few times, I asked him what he thought about it, his response "it will be good when it is finished."

 

I can't ever remember a time when the skyline wasn't full of tower cranes somewhere. I go less often now and there seem to be more cranes than ever.

 

Martyn

[phil_sutters]

On 08/08/2023 at 09:54, grahame said:

 

That's the road it was in but I think is was probably closed by the time the layout is set in (late 70s on). Does anyone know when it closed?

 

I think its location was one of the two half shops in this pic below, possibly next to the cycle shop. The B reg car would indicate the photo is no earlier than 1984 and I think by then it had closed.

 

 

Certainly later the two half shops were combined in to one, initially selling Lithuanian/specialist foods, I think, but that had closed by the time of this colour pic:

 

 

This pic shows the food shop when it was presumably open. The NSE Networker EMU would date the photo:

 

 

Now of course, all those shops have been swept away in the 21stC development of the station and the road re-named as Guildable Manor Street with the new lines running over it:

 

 

Looking through the adverts in Railway Modeller, they were advertising from the London Bridge shop up to December 1979 at least. From 1980 onwards the RM archive doesn't show adverts in the magazines. They made it easy to track their adverts in late 1970s, as they highlighted a miniature vice - possibly on a suction base. So I could quickly identify their ads. Previously they had been all text. They were usually in the final four or five pages of the mag. I was a bit of a vulture in those days. I remember going to the closing down sales of Hamblings, W&H and ABC, which why I seem to have a rather random selection of railway bits. I recently donated/dumped a whole load of card kits, from various manufacturers, on a local club's secondhand stall.

Edited August 25, 2023 by phil_sutters

[grahame]

On 23/08/2023 at 13:34, The Lurker said:

Colechurch House currently has a bar on the top floor which can be very nice in the sun...but you have to pre-book. It doesn't look very promising (rather like the whole building).

 

I used to work in the Cottons Centre which I can see is set too far back to be in your Tooley Street scene. But was the "sky bridge" over Tooley Street in period? It's gone now but not sure when it was built and the aerial shot you posted was not clear enough for me to spot it. Now they've moved us to the News Building

 

The buildings you have built really capture the scene, even now after all the development in the area, this thread feels a little like looking out of the window

 

Thanks.

 

I did see the Google view of the Colechurch House roof bar. It doesn't look like the sort of place I'd go but it probably would be interesting for the views and experience.

 

I've mulled for long over the foot bridge across Tooley Street - it would have been in period (at least for some of it) but I've cheated a little with the buildings. I've missed one out (due to lack of space) and the other I've made is Dominion House which has been demolished but was better looking (architecturally) than the replacement. Consequently I've deemed Cottons Centre as too modern (and too large) to include.

 

On this site you can see a pic of Dominion House in 1980 (it's copyright protected) but it was soon demolished: https://www.londonpicturearchive.org.uk/view-item?i=54218&WINID=1693207284495 Notice the roof top advertising hoardings to be seen from the trains on the viaduct. I've yet to make them. Here's my model version of Dominion House:

 

 

I remember using the bridge with the escalators down on the north side. You used to be able to then go through the Cottons Centre ground floor, with its art gallery, to the river but they blocked that route off and forced you to Hays Galleria. You also used to be able to go down and take a subterranean passage which eventually came up in the No.1 LB (PW?) reception area much to the annoyance of the security people. They also quickly prevented that route.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by grahame

[grahame]

On 24/08/2023 at 14:57, mullie said:

When I first became a head of music in Essex during 1999 we appointed an excellent second in dept who had come up from Cardiff to take the job. He had been to London a few times, I asked him what he thought about it, his response "it will be good when it is finished."

 

 

I don't think it's a matter of being planned to be finished. It's more a case of persistent evolving, upgrading and change for development and improvement as buildings fall in to disrepair and out of use. I doubt it'll ever be the case that London is ever finished.

 

 

[The Lurker]

On 28/08/2023 at 08:11, grahame said:

 

Thanks.

 

I did see the Google view of the Colechurch House roof bar. It doesn't look like the sort of place I'd go but it probably would be interesting for the views and experience.

 

I've mulled for long over the foot bridge across Tooley Street - it would have been in period (at least for some of it) but I've cheated a little with the buildings. I've missed one out (due to lack of space) and the other I've made is Dominion House which has been demolished but was better looking (architecturally) than the replacement. Consequently I've deemed Cottons Centre as too modern (and too large) to include.

 

On this site you can see a pic of Dominion House in 1980 (it's copyright protected) but it was soon demolished: https://www.londonpicturearchive.org.uk/view-item?i=54218&WINID=1693207284495 Notice the roof top advertising hoardings to be seen from the trains on the viaduct. I've yet to make them. Here's my model version of Dominion House:

 

 

I remember using the bridge with the escalators down on the north side. You used to be able to then go through the Cottons Centre ground floor, with its art gallery, to the river but they blocked that route off and forced you to Hays Galleria. You also used to be able to go down and take a subterranean passage which eventually came up in the No.1 LB (PW?) reception area much to the annoyance of the security people. They also quickly prevented that route.

 

 

 

 

 

There was another subterranean passage from the Cottons Centre to one of the buildings on Tooley Street where it diverges from Duke Hill - I forget which one but used it once to get back from a reception we were holding for our lenders to convince them we were still a good bet to lend to…

 

and yes  number one was PWC, or at least some of it. There was a telecoms company there too - since gone bust IIRC

[grahame]

Here's a composite aerial view of the station before rebuilding and roughly of the area of the layout and fairly close to the period - there are a few new buildings as part of the 'more London' developments in the photo that are not in my model but it gives a good idea of the locality including many of  the buildings since demolished.

 

 

[MyRule1]

On 01/09/2023 at 00:24, The Lurker said:

There was a telecoms company there too - since gone bust IIRC

That was Global Crossing.  I managed my employers contract with them for data services. As I result I attended many meetings in No1 as as US company they liked to entertain their clients in rooms overlooking the Thames and the Tower of London this disappointed me as I would have preferred to watch trains go by on the other side.

 

We had about a dozen sites served by GC and I attended the commissioning of a number of these and got to chat to the engineers.  In conversation I discovered most of the engineers had Personal Track Safety qualifications as GC through a takeover had acquired the privatised BR telecoms business and they were regularly called out to mend  faults in the fibre cables that were trackside.

[grahame]

With the planned period for the layout being from the end of 1970s to the beginning of the 1990s (and between the two station rebuilds) I've updated the thread title to reflect this.

 

Although this puts it firmly out of the steam era I'll possibly find an excuse to run my SR class Z loco:

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by grahame

[Siberian Snooper]

I think you need a 2nd layout based on Exeter St Davids to Exeter Queen Street. 😆😆

 

[grahame]

3 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I think you need a 2nd layout based on Exeter St Davids to Exeter Queen Street. 😆😆

 

 

Or the Bricklayers Arms goods depot.

 

[grahame]

A little progress with the first bits of track laid. But it's slow going especially in this heat - the highest temperature in the UK today was just two miles down the road. And I've yet to build the remaining viaduct decking . . . . that involves carpentry and it's too hot for that.

 

 

[phil_sutters]

On 05/09/2023 at 16:55, grahame said:

 

Or the Bricklayers Arms goods depot.

 

Your time-warp could be extended further - back to the Festival of Britain Exhibition in 1951. A Buddicombe locomotive was borrowed from France to represent the type, as no British example was available in working condition, I believe. It was shedded at Bricklayers Arms for duration of the exhibition, with a British Railways crew. An acquaintance of ours asked me to find out the background to these two photos, the fireman being a relative of hers. RMweb as usual came up with the goods! We were pointed in the direction of at least one video of the loco in motion, but I can find it neither in my files or here on RMweb.

Edited September 7, 2023 by phil_sutters

[wainwright1]

I remember seeing an article about the visit of this locomotive from the South London Press (I think), in the Southwark Local Archives.

 

All the best

 

Ray

Edited September 8, 2023 by wainwright1