LNER T2/Q6 in 7mm

[doilum]

The delayed start at Spa gives me time to introduce my latest project.

Thursdays post brought Yeadons Register #23 and a win from the bay of E. This is an unstarted etched brass kit of some antiquity. It appears to be reasonably complete apart from lack of instructions and boiler and smokebox. The price was right and I am delighted with my purchase. The aim is to build no.1288, built in 1913 and which spent the whole pre war period at Selby.

First step, having checked the contents of the large box, was to make a start on the tender. Owing to the lack of instructions and pre drilled brake hanger holes it took the best part of an hour to decide which was front and rear in the almost symmetrical chassis parts. Finally a tiny rivet detail on a Yeadon photo helped me reach a conclusion.

Having made a decision holes were drilled for the brake hangers and to secure the additional perspex frame spacers.

[doilum]

Apologies for the interuption. Unexpected visitor.

The Q6 like most of my tender locomotives, will use the American system of current collection.  It will also be DCC. To avoid potential sparks between the tender and locomotive the tender sub frame is isolated from the superstructure by a strip of 10 thou plastikard.  Space had to be created at the front for the drawbar which is mounted on.the superstructure. I would like to isolate the loco chassis in a similar manner but will cross that bridge when the time comes.

Pictures show the initial test build using the brass spacers provided. Some builders have a favorite piece of plate glass, others swear by some type of jig or extended axles. My weapon of choice is an offcut of SM32 track using the same logic as Brian Cloughs much quoted quip on Leeds Utd

Second picture is the finished item. The spacers have now been removed and the chassis retested.

[doilum]

Spent the day in isolation keeping a cold to myself. Six hours later we have a sweetly running chassis. It really should have taken two but it really fought hard. Fettling the axles and wheels took a good hour but that's the price of using cast wheels. Most time was spent on the jointed Premier coupling rods. I have used them before without any difficulty but today I could not get the rivets to cooperate and ended up making my own from 40 mm panel pins.

Not sure where to go next, but might have a go at the cylinders and connecting rods.

Edited August 1, 2023 by doilum

[doilum]

No instructions. No problemo, how hard can it be?

Well they might be handy in deciding exactly what is missing. If any one recognizes the kit or it's manufacturer it would be appreciated. I guess it is at least thirty years unmade. One additional challenge is that on budget kits the designer has to make the best use of each etch and components may be randomly distributed to fit them in without the cost of an extra sheet.

The positive progress. The chassis is now fully soldered with home made spacers including perspex ones for the mounting bolts. It has been reassembled, tested and stripped down again. All is well so far.

On to the cylinders. These are an excellent fold up, bolt on design, after much thought I think I have them right way round and top side up. I can only find one part that might be a wrapper but that won't be too challenging. There are more cylinder end castings than I need perhaps reflecting the post war changes to their design. The slide bar and piston rod/ crossheads are excellent lost wax castings but seem to be lacking any guides at the cylinders end. Time to scratch build? First spend an hour or two studying Yeadon.

[doilum]

Today's task was building the cylinders. The brass scrap box yielded a few short lengths of four concentric tubes with which to build the central structure. The wrappers were formed from a bit of half inch tube that shouted "use me" . Altogether happy so far. Without proper drawings a bit of experimentation will be needed to complete the slide bars. Photo evidence will place the hangers within a millimeter or so. There are no hints on the chassis sides.

Question is, whether to solder up the connecting rods provided or get on the phone to Premier Components.

[Chas Levin]

Interesting project: do you know what brand the original kit was? I recently read a couple of threads about some of the earliest etched kits to go on the UK market...

[doilum]

11 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Interesting project: do you know what brand the original kit was? I recently read a couple of threads about some of the earliest etched kits to go on the UK market...

No, I was hoping that someone might have recognised it. There are no designer initials or other clues on the etch. Perhaps they were lost with the missing boiler.

[doilum]

Chassis is now rolling. Tomorrow I will be testing it's minimum radius limits before final tweaking and thread locking the crank pins. The motor has been borrowed from another project. I think it is about 35:1. I would have preferred 50:1 but.this will do for now.

Not sure how much time I will have for the Q6 on the next few weeks as I need to get stuck into the station building for Selby.

 

A.quick update. Passed the minimum radius test with ease. Probably not much more than 60".

Edited August 8, 2023 by doilum

[doilum]

Finally got it running sweetly. Despite lots of careful testing and crankpin adjustment, that freely rolling chassis became a notchy challenge as soon as Loctite and a motor were introduced. Eventually the problem was identified and a little filing of the coupling rod hole on the rearmost nearside rod did the trick. Connected to the tender chassis it runs under it's own steam. I am not convinced by the gearing and might need something with a lower ratio as the prototype rarely exceeded 25,mph.

Anyway it is back in it's box whilst I concentrate on the footbridge for Selby.

I forgot to mention the balance weights. Perfectly formed in brass they short out the split spoke insulation. Repeat in plastikard.

Edited August 12, 2023 by doilum

[D5158]

According to the NELPG Q6 profile, 40 mph is the top speed ?.

 

63395 was at Selby during the. Mid 50’s.

Edited August 11, 2023 by D5158

[doilum]

There were always a handful at Selby working the coal trains out of Gascoyne wood sidings. I suspect that the 40 mph was aspirational.

[doilum]

A bit more progress this weekend. Photos to follow. The origin of the kit is still unknown but the cab sides and front are all a double laminate. This allows for some fine beading and creates a recess for the glazing. 

The tender went together well although I.will have to wait a week or two beyi get some footplate photos from the prototype at Grosmont.

[JeffP]

Despite Selby being only 30 miles from us, we never saw any at Frodingham.

[65179]

38 minutes ago, JeffP said:

Despite Selby being only 30 miles from us, we never saw any at Frodingham.

 

And yet pre-MSW electrification Selby Q6s were regulars over Woodhead.

 

Simon

[doilum]

A bit more progress. I decided to run with the double skin cab and spent two hours pre fitting the handrail knobs. A bit like the Hachette examples each required drilling out to accept the nickel silver wire. Fortunately I still had the appropriate drills stashed with my stock of knobs.

Next task will be drawing up and rolling a boiler. This was missing from the kit but it is a straightforward parralel type . I have already got brother in law to turn me up a 36mm wooden blank on his new lathe. This is just undersized and can be padded out with masking tape . The loco is posed on Frydale because the rest of the workshop needs a good tidy up.

Edited October 30, 2023 by doilum

[doilum]

Boiler done. It might have been quicker if not for the hour spent getting it off the wooden former. Sixty minutes of gently warming in front of the fan heater and trying to push it out with a large socket and big hammer..

The smoke box wrapper is perhaps at tad too thick but all the other shim brass was too thin. I haven't made myind up about boiler bands. In many photos they are all but invisible but in others appear quite distinctly. I guess the options are to find some very thin brass strip or to apply transfers just before the final coat of black.

Having got this far I managed to cut and fit the firebox in under half an hour. Only a small area of boiler had to be cut to clear the ABC gearbox and this should be hidden by the splashers.

Edited October 31, 2023 by doilum

[doilum]

One of the real joys of scratch building or working without instructions is the process of research. By the time the model is finished the builder has a much better knowledge and appreciation of the prototype. This mornings task was marking out the handrail knobs. My wife had found what appeared to be a good drawing but like many digital images the details were tidy rather than accurate. 

Fortunately I have Yeadons for reference to position each knob relative to a known fixed point on the wheels or boiler. Once I have all the pilot holes drilled I shall probably box it all up for a month or so in order to concentrate upon the buildings for Selby. Taking a week off to work on the Q6 has done wonders for my modelling mojo.

 

.

[65179]

Take great care when marking things like handrail knob positions using pictures from Yeadon etc.  You'll be aware that there are two different boikers for Q6s with quite a change of fitting positions between the two, but also the Q6s with the sandwich bufferbeam have a longer running plate than those built with the 'normal' type. 

Guess how I know this...

 

My Selby Q6 is a bit of a compromise as a result:

 

Simon

[doilum]

3 hours ago, 65179 said:

Take great care when marking things like handrail knob positions using pictures from Yeadon etc.  You'll be aware that there are two different boikers for Q6s with quite a change of fitting positions between the two, but also the Q6s with the sandwich bufferbeam have a longer running plate than those built with the 'normal' type. 

Guess how I know this...

 

My Selby Q6 is a bit of a compromise as a result:

 

Simon

Thanks. Wish I had known about the sandwich buffer earlier. Done now. I have been careful to use early photographs.as reference sources. In particular there is a grey.livery shopping out image that pretty well defines the first batch. I also try and find images from both sides on a similar age locomotive. Unfortunately Yeadon did not date the images so a certain amount of guess work is inevitable.

You have certainly captured the soul of these beasts although perhaps not quite as leaky and limescaled as the regular Q6 that worked coal from Allerton Bywater towards Castleford. My late father often recalled seeing the same engine held at the start of the Garforth branch leaking steam from every joint and orifice whilst he supervised afternoon playtime at Wheldon Lane school. 

[Rob Pulham]

I have only just seen this thread, I don't come here as often these days. I can tell you whose kit it isn't and that's the Haywood Railway kit. I had a look in mine and it definitely doesn't look like your frames. 

 

I haven't ever seen inside the Gladiator kit but I do wonder if it originated with George Norton/07 Kits. I have a couple of those and they have solid milled frames/turned boilers which have been replaced in later iterations of the kit with etches. The other possible suggestion might be MSC as their A5 kit has similar frames but I have no idea if they ever did a Q6.

[D5158]

Hi Rob,

 

I wasn’t aware George Norton / O7 did a Q6.

 

I built the O7 J21 as an ex superheated one plus the J25.  I bought the kits when Keith Dales was ceasing to trade as O7.  He kindly made up a couple of kits for me.

 

I also have the Norton G5.

 

Regards

[doilum]

I built one of George Norton's J25 many years ago. The frames are definitely of that era. It is the cab etchings that are the puzzle. They do remind me of a Rising Star N2 but that is another story.

[Rob Pulham]

14 hours ago, D5158 said:

Hi Rob,

 

I wasn’t aware George Norton / O7 did a Q6.

 

Me neither, I was just speculating on the origins of the Gladiator Q6 kit and comparing what was in this kit with early 07/George Norton kits that I have experience of. - the Gladiator and Haywood kits are the only two Q6 kits that I am aware of.

 

3 hours ago, doilum said:

They do remind me of a Rising Star N2 but that is another story.

I have a Rising Star F8 and that's definitely got an etched chassis - rather agricultural but etched none the less. I bought it from the bring and Buy at Bolton show back when it was at the school probably 2015/16 at a guess.

I have the Warren Shepherd N2 kit and body etches for a second N2 from Mignon Model Studios. The WS kit has two chassis options included so I plan to use the second one for the MMS upperworks so no experience of the RS N2.

[D5158]

7 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

Me neither, I was just speculating on the origins of the Gladiator Q6 kit and comparing what was in this kit with early 07/George Norton kits that I have experience of. - the Gladiator and Haywood kits are the only two Q6 kits that I am aware of.

Hi Rob,

 

Totally understood and many thanks for the response.

 

7 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

 

I have a Rising Star F8 and that's definitely got an etched chassis - rather agricultural but etched none the less. I bought it from the bring and Buy at Bolton show back when it was at the school probably 2015/16 at a guess.

I have the Warren Shepherd N2 kit and body etches for a second N2 from Mignon Model Studios. The WS kit has two chassis options included so I plan to use the second one for the MMS upperworks so no experience of the RS N2.

The Rising Star F8’s weren’t to bad to build although a bit like an 0-8-0.

 

One of them ended up at the Keighley Club.  I heard Robin Taylor converted it by modifying it with a radial truck.

[Rob Pulham]

27 minutes ago, D5158 said:

 I heard Robin Taylor converted it by modifying it with a radial truck.

 

Funny you should say that, that's exactly what I have done with mine, albeit that it's a long way from being finished at present. One day...